Thoughts on cycling "innovations"
dennisn
Posts: 10,601
Anyone care to share their thoughts about "Cycling product solutions to problems that may or may not exist"?
i.e. - What problems did these items "cure"?
Oversize bars.
Those plastic chain cleaning things.
1 1/8" headsets.
Hollow pin chains.
That kind of stuff.
i.e. - What problems did these items "cure"?
Oversize bars.
Those plastic chain cleaning things.
1 1/8" headsets.
Hollow pin chains.
That kind of stuff.
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dennisn wrote:Anyone care to share their thoughts about "Cycling product solutions to problems that may or may not exist"?
i.e. - What problems did these items "cure"?
Oversize bars.
I have bikes with both oversize and standard bars. I find the oversize bars more comfortable. Were they supposed to solve some sort of engineering problem rather than an ergonomic one?0 -
Oversize bars.
cured lower profits in handlebar companies owing to the gullible soaking up marketing guff.0 -
Now I like "innovation", but my two current bugbears:
1. Tapered 1 1/8th to 1 1/4 heasdets. An invention that isn't required on road bikes. Did anyone ever have a problem with 1 1/4? Even top sprinters never seemed to.
On an MTB where the bike is smacking into terrain with 150mm+ forks, OK I can see the stress on the head tube, but what purpose on a road bike?
Pure marketing IMO (I spoke to a bike maker that has effectively admitted this).
2. BB30. I happen to like external BBs (shimano, Ultra-torque etc) instead of the awful seized internal spindles of old, but BB30 - another load of marketing. At least Shimano and Campag haven't started producing cranksets - yet. Small stifness gains (see Velonews) and yet another standard (that isn't).0 -
But I find oversized bars more comfy...0
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Not an engineer but as I understand it the stiffness of a tube is related to its diameter, more so than its wall thickness. Ie you can make lighter tubes that are as stiff by using thinner walled, oversized tubes.
Hollow pin chains - gimicky weight reduction.0 -
Graeme_S wrote:dennisn wrote:Anyone care to share their thoughts about "Cycling product solutions to problems that may or may not exist"?
i.e. - What problems did these items "cure"?
Oversize bars.
I have bikes with both oversize and standard bars. I find the oversize bars more comfortable. Were they supposed to solve some sort of engineering problem rather than an ergonomic one?
My impression has been that they solved a sales problem. No one was buying bars so they made them "better".0 -
clanton wrote:Not an engineer but as I understand it the stiffness of a tube is related to its diameter, more so than its wall thickness. Ie you can make lighter tubes that are as stiff by using thinner walled, oversized tubes..
That would make sense.
But the weird thing is that frame/forks combination doesn't seem to have got significantly lighter (if at all). I'm comparing a 2009 and 2010 catalogue. Maybe the bigger lower bearing offsets the saving :-). Not that bike weight seems to be an issue much anymore?
Plus now we have forks that are not interchangable.
Still it does look nice and I'll wind up getting it anyway.0 -
Bent cranks was the funniest.
Did anyone fall for that?
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Maybe an aesthetic thing? With the advent of alu frames tubing got fatter, so normal sized bars ended up looking a bit puny in comparison.
Re marketing, why would they need to do that when there are all the radical advances such as ergonomic shaped, wing shaped, compact etc bars to keep us parting with our cash?!
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Not an engineer but as I understand it the stiffness of a tube is related to its diameter, more so than its wall thickness. Ie you can make lighter tubes that are as stiff by using thinner walled, oversized tubes.
Hollow pin chains - gimicky weight reduction.
but your handlebar argument sounds like the same thing? gimmicky weight reduction... 0 -
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Onza Octopus tyres, now they were superb and not gimmicky at all.0
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Dont forgetdennisn wrote:What problems did these items "cure"?
Oversize bars. = Stiffness
Those plastic chain cleaning things.= No more fagging around with toothbrushes
1 1/8" headsets. =Frame stiffness
Hollow pin chains. =Weight
Dog Fangs= Inability to set up front mechs
Mono rail saddlesNeil
Help I'm Being Oppressed0 -
Ooh Egg chainrings!! Making a comeback I hearNeil
Help I'm Being Oppressed0 -
will3 wrote:Bent cranks was the funniest.
Did anyone fall for that? What problem were they supposed to solve!? 0 -
redddraggon wrote:will3 wrote:Bent cranks was the funniest.
Did anyone fall for that?
Dennis did, and that's why he's bitter
Gotta say, that's a new one on me. What were they supposed to "DO"? :? :?0 -
Look up PMP cranks.0
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This page from Classic Rendezvous on PMP cranks illustrates many of the characteristic stylings of charlatans, snake oil sellers, and the simply deluded, across the board. I particularly like this quote:
1981: The British magazine Cycling issues a set of P.M.P. cranks to an unnamed first category Surrey roadman for road testing. "Whatever the theories, in practice our roadman tester felt the P.M.P. cranks offered an advantage and surely that is the true criterion," Cycling reported. The roadman himself said, "At low pedaling speeds, dead center seemed to be removed. "
Rampant anti-intellectualism, (or proud ignorance), an unshakeable confidence in one's own judgment... this stuff always dominated in cycling, and still does. Sadly, the pseudoscience guff in the PMP advert, is as familiar as ever – I think you could find just the same senseless pap in a casual flick through any bike magazine.0 -
I wonder if I put a smaller front wheel on my bike I will go faster because I'm always pointing downhill...0
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NapoleonD wrote:I wonder if I put a smaller front wheel on my bike I will go faster because I'm always pointing downhill...
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??????? It's a concept worth trying to sell. Doesn't necessarily have to work. Just sell.
I've got to come up with a gimmick myself one of these days. I'm thinking something triathlete related. Those guys will buy anything.0 -
I'm sure those L shaped cranks made a brief comeback just last year ?
WIth OS handlebars - is the larger diameter followed all the way through the bars then ? Someone told me it was just at the clamp ?
I think the small wheel thing had a bit of a following for bunch races - cos you could eget like 5mm closer to the guy in front....0 -
Given the UCI banned the small wheel thing, it was presumably a worthwhile innovation.....0
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But what about innovations that actually work and make life better/easier...
Threadless is my number one.... Cranks and Headsets were never as good before we had this....0 -
cougie wrote:I'm sure those L shaped cranks made a brief comeback just last year ?
WIth OS handlebars - is the larger diameter followed all the way through the bars then ? Someone told me it was just at the clamp ?
I think the small wheel thing had a bit of a following for bunch races - cos you could eget like 5mm closer to the guy in front....
On the OS handle bars.... I was also under the impression that it's just the middle around the clamp that's bigger and the part where there grips, breaks and gears go is still 25.4 as I've never seen oversized clamps for controls and grips for sale....0 -
Chunkers1980 wrote:cougie wrote:I'm sure those L shaped cranks made a brief comeback just last year ?
WIth OS handlebars - is the larger diameter followed all the way through the bars then ? Someone told me it was just at the clamp ?
I think the small wheel thing had a bit of a following for bunch races - cos you could eget like 5mm closer to the guy in front....
On the OS handle bars.... I was also under the impression that it's just the middle around the clamp that's bigger and the part where there grips, breaks and gears go is still 25.4 as I've never seen oversized clamps for controls and grips for sale....
I'll sell you some oversize bar tape if you like.0 -
will3 wrote:Chunkers1980 wrote:cougie wrote:I'm sure those L shaped cranks made a brief comeback just last year ?
WIth OS handlebars - is the larger diameter followed all the way through the bars then ? Someone told me it was just at the clamp ?
I think the small wheel thing had a bit of a following for bunch races - cos you could eget like 5mm closer to the guy in front....
On the OS handle bars.... I was also under the impression that it's just the middle around the clamp that's bigger and the part where there grips, breaks and gears go is still 25.4 as I've never seen oversized clamps for controls and grips for sale....
I'll sell you some oversize bar tape if you like.
Brill - I've never been able to find that size - how much to you want?0 -
Warm and hot weather base layers???????????0
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will3 wrote:Chunkers1980 wrote:cougie wrote:I'm sure those L shaped cranks made a brief comeback just last year ?
WIth OS handlebars - is the larger diameter followed all the way through the bars then ? Someone told me it was just at the clamp ?
I think the small wheel thing had a bit of a following for bunch races - cos you could eget like 5mm closer to the guy in front....
On the OS handle bars.... I was also under the impression that it's just the middle around the clamp that's bigger and the part where there grips, breaks and gears go is still 25.4 as I've never seen oversized clamps for controls and grips for sale....
I'll sell you some oversize bar tape if you like.
Well you WOULD need oversize bar tape for the extra length taken up ? Possibly...
I've not bothered with OS as I've not seen the point of it. If it is just the centre bit - then why would OS be any comfier than normal ?0 -
I've got oversize bars because I mistakenly bought an oversize stem.
As for useless innovations, what about carbon bottle cages? Come on, they're just things, for Christ sake.0
