Article about the internals of Sky

iainf72

I know there are a lot of Sky threads but this one warrants its own.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 922458.ece

It makes me shudder, but then, that's my personality type.

What this whole theory falls down is what if you ended up with a guy like Robert Millar who had the physical attributes to win a grand Tour but woudn't have the "soft skills". Or will they make provision for the team leader to possibly be a difficult prickly character?

I bet the poor gits on the team will have performance reviews and everything.

Pokerface

It all sounds so crazy. Until it starts to work... :shock:

frenchfighter

It has worked with the Track team so it isn't a far flung idea to think it will work on the road. That being said, I don't think they will be well liked by other teams.

I am not a fan of this approach as it lacks personality, expression and panache and is a major reason for me not liking Team Sky.

I guess some people, like Hoy for instance, approve of this level of detail.

BikingBernie

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 922458.ece

...Brailsford will explain these concepts, which were handed down to him by the vaunted psychologist in the British Cycling set-up, Steve Peters.

The chimps we have heard of before. Everyone has a selfish or negative, emotionally driven side that hijacks reason and logic — this is their chimp. So Brailsford will preach a chimp management culture.

And to the staff, he will preach happy ants. Why? “Ants don’t worry, they operate like a fantastic team, they accept obstacles and deal with them in a positive manner, they don’t complain and remain positive,” he said. “An ant doesn’t work on emotion, is proactive and always chooses the ant role.”

Sounds a bit like Le Groupement all over again...

LangerDan

The beauty of this system is that organisational failures can be laid firmly at the foot of the employees, rather than management. The bus is late for a race ? - the "crown" riders mustn't have thought the timings through properly. Ratio of soigneurs to riders isn't correct? Riders again.

It could lead to an interesting competition. Between Garmin and Sky, who can come up with the best pseudo scientific guff? Currently Garmin leads with Danielsons weight issues due to his being 15% Eskimo. However "happy ants" is an impressive opening gambit.

I think a lecture on "happy ants" given to some poor unfortunate mechanic jet-washing bikes on a sleety Belgian evening is likely to see a track pump insterted into Mr. Brailsfords management orifice.

Pokerface

frenchfighter wrote:

It has worked with the Track team so it isn't a far flung idea to think it will work on the road. That being said, I don't think they will be well liked by other teams.

I am not a fan of this approach as it lacks personality, expression and panache and is a major reason for me not liking Team Sky.

I guess some people, like Hoy for instance, approve of this level of detail.

And yet, the GB riders are some of the media-savvy and interesting personalities in pro cycling.

BikingBernie

“We are not malicious or vindictive, but if anyone’s behaviour is not allowing us to get to where we want to be, we’ll give them a chance to modify it and if they can’t, then they are out,” Brailsford said.

I wonder if Brailsford got his training by selling Kirby vacuum cleaners? Didn't they tell their staff that they should get rid of anyone who did not share their vision of selling ridiculously overpriced vacuum cleaners, and that if that person was their wife/ girlfriend they should simply "Ditch the bitch"?

iainf72

LangerDan wrote:

It could lead to an interesting competition. Between Garmin and Sky, who can come up with the best pseudo scientific guff? Currently Garmin leads with Danielsons weight issues due to his being 15% Eskimo. However "happy ants" is an impressive opening gambit.

I still think High Horse / Columbia are leading this one. Didn't they get their magic powers from "man shaft" or something?

Kléber

Well, David Brent is alive and well. I hope Brailsford is boosting morale at the team shindig with his flashdance rendition.

“There are cultural traits of Scandinavians that lend themselves to the idea of nurturing and mentoring as against dictating and controlling. Their societies are democratic, caring, and I think that is reflected in their bike riders"

Ah, so the Spaniards are just repressed fascist Franco supporters, yeah? And the Italian riders just love to conform to stereotypes of chaotic organisation and even organised crime, oh yeah.

Overall, it's an interesting project. But I still think it's one suited to the track more than the road. You can take some capable of winning and repeat and repeat gestures and gradually turn a team pursuit from 255 seconds into 240 seconds. A good rider won't give a monkeys if the team bus is late or if the driver gets frantic when the traffic's bad.

Maybe you can eek out some gains on the road but it will generally come down to talent. No chimp-analysis will make you beat Cavendish, an entire nest of self-satisfied ants can't really help a rider stick on Contador's wheel.

In the meantime, Riis probably has his boys dressed in cammo and sucking on icy seawater on their commando camp, Stapleton just needs a year of déja vu and Vaughters is browsing wine lists and smuggling truffles intercontinental.

frenchfighter

LangerDan wrote:

Currently Garmin leads with Danielsons weight issues due to his being 15% Eskimo.

I read an article on this...very unusual.

It was also in this article that Dr Inigo San Millan, (who has the largest database of physiological data), says of Danielson: 'His values are increible, like Contador'!

afx237vi

Pokerface wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

It has worked with the Track team so it isn't a far flung idea to think it will work on the road. That being said, I don't think they will be well liked by other teams.

I am not a fan of this approach as it lacks personality, expression and panache and is a major reason for me not liking Team Sky.

I guess some people, like Hoy for instance, approve of this level of detail.

And yet, the GB riders are some of the media-savvy and interesting personalities in pro cycling.

Really? Or do we just think that because we get exposed to them WAY more often than pros of any other nationality?

iainf72

Forget the original one.

KIMMAGE!

Pretty tough I would say. Go Paul.

Kléber

That's true. The language barrier means we don't get to learn much about other non-English speaking rider.

Some random things:
- Lampre's Marzio Bruseghin breeds donkeys for fun.
- Sky's new man Nicolas Portal works for a French fashion brand, Snatch, which appropriately enough, specialises in underwear.

There are loads of other riders with interesting and weird lives. No one in Italy knows Wiggo is sarcastic or that David Millar riffs on modern art.

Tusher

. Dave Brailsford must have escaped from NHS management- reading this article has given me flashbacks of days surviving boredom on training days being lectured by people who have never actually done any real work with real patients in their entire lives.


Still, my inner chimp has just poured me a large glass of whisky to enable me to recover from reading the article. Cheers Iain!

afx237vi

iainf72 wrote:

Forget the original one.

KIMMAGE!

Pretty tough I would say. Go Paul.

It's a shame Kimmage didn't press him a little bit harder on "...This was not an outright cheat who couldn’t give a monkey’s about anybody. He had held up his hand and said, ‘Okay, this is how it happened’..."

So what makes an outright cheat then?

iainf72

afx237vi wrote:

So what makes an outright cheat then?

Not British I expect. If your from a country which uses olive oil in cooking generally and not in an attempt to be poncey you'd be an outright cheat.

And if you're French obviously.

GroupOfOne MkII

Christ Times seems to be having one or two articles a week minimum on Team Sky at the moment, anybody would think they were owned by the same pers....oh...

ms_tree

I wonder how many will fall asleep while being lectured? Will there be role-play? Glad I'm not part of all this!!
Perhaps they'll have a restructure!!!!!! :roll:

Tusher

Indeed, GroupofOne.
iain- I meant the original article, so my post probably doesn;t make chronological sense. I've just read the Kimmage one- boy, is he one fine interrogator.

LangerDan

‘You can tell from the way people talk if they are hiding something. They come up with far-fetched bollocks excuses, but look in their eyes’. . .

'Cos that approach worked soooooo well for Gianni Savio.

Rodrego Hernandez

Chimps first, now happy ants, WTF are they going on about. They seem to have forgotten the subtle art of getting along with their colleagues by doing things like not poaching staff or using intimidation to get their own way.

There's very little need for mumbo jumbo like that in a corporate environment let alone in a cycling team. Just recruit the right people, have clearly defined job descriptions and everything will work. The underlying threat of fit in or get lost isn't healthy in any role, let a,long a pressured environment like a pro cycling team.

LangerDan

Don't think much of the new Sky kit....

DaveyL

iainf72 wrote:

Forget the original one.

KIMMAGE!

Pretty tough I would say. Go Paul.

Is it?

thamacdaddy

I actually saw a program on sky about three months ago where four women were taken through the BC cycling program in an attempt to lose weight (they ha always failed everything else).

They had harsh training the gym with shane sutton and pyscologist sessions with peters.

And the chimps and crown things is all about putting quite scientific terms on how your brain works and personality traits or actions into terms you can remember and know how to control.

Psychology is always the edge in sport and so he is spot on with this approach in my opinion and I am sure it will work. Of course it matters is coach drivers get stressed and stress out the riders or the team who need only to focus on the ride.

There are loads of examples of this sort of stuff, they always sound ridiculous but they work. For example if you check out the SCRUM approach to project management then you will find something totally stupid that talks about pigs and chickens.

Tom Butcher

Who are the most successful road cyclists the UK has had. Cav, Robert Millar, Simpson for the men, Burton and Cooke in the women. I don't know for sure what they would all have made of all this chimp stuff but Cav is quoted as saying:

"I like Steve. But all that stuff about 'taming your inner chimp [of negative thought]' is hilarious."

- and the others don't seem like the sort to go for it either.

Maybe for some people it works - I suppose if someone tells themself it helps then it helps - personally I think it's bollocks but I suppose if I was on the Olympic track squad or Team Sky I'd play along so as not to upset the boss.

mrushton

Psychology is strange. There was an interview with Bill Bruford (v.famous drummer) who on going to audition for Robert Fripp (King Crimson) asked what he should listen to in order to play. He was told that he should be reading Nietzsche and other certain writers/thinkers rather than playing because Bruford already had the playing credentials. Fripp was looking more for a way of thinking that would be reflected in the playing. In a way, that's probably the thought at Sky. Everyone there is a good rider so how do you build that ability?

kickerbri

The riders seemed to be pretty impressed by what is occurring in Manchester this week, a selection of tweets from the various riders involved:

John Lee Augustyn: “Awesome life changing stuff happening!!!”

Greg Henderston: “ Made it to Manchester. Greeted by sideways cold rain. But...TeamSky is next level. Hands down better than anything I've been with before.”

Chris Froome: “Absolutely blown away by the first couple days of meetings with Team Sky- this is going to be one kick ass team!!”

iainf72

Do you think if you tweeted "What a pile of backside, thankfully they're paying me a lot" would result in you losing your contract?

disgruntledgoat

iainf72 wrote:

Do you think if you tweeted "What a pile of backside, thankfully they're paying me a lot" would result in you losing your contract?

or "Inner chimp says oook eeee ahhh ook!!!!"

Tom Butcher

Hopefully they've been out on the Manchester Wheelers club run, done 100 miles with a stop for cake in Buxton or summat, that'd scare Contador.

graeme_s-2

iainf72 wrote:

Do you think if you tweeted "What a pile of backside, thankfully they're paying me a lot" would result in you losing your contract?

If you weren't impressed, then I guess you just wouldn't say anything at all!