Yates DS at Sky
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the clean team.
i really hope they dont have positive tests, perhaps Bruyneel would have been the best to be sure0 -
There is probably little to worry about. I am sure Yates learnt an awful lot from the time he spent working with Bruyneel, Armstrong, Riis and the rest...markwalker wrote:the clean team.
i really hope they dont have positive tests, perhaps Bruyneel would have been the best to be sure0 -
:roll: :roll:BikingBernie wrote:
There is probably little to worry about. I am sure Yates learnt an awful lot from the time he spent working with Bruyneel, Armstrong, Riis and the rest...markwalker wrote:the clean team.
i really hope they dont have positive tests, perhaps Bruyneel would have been the best to be sure0 -
Much as I respect his history in the sport,I sure hope he gets some media training.
To a few,he comes across as laid back,but to many,his speach is almost slured.
Contador for one,said his understanding of the English language was coming on,but struggled to understand Sean.
I'm sure he has plenty to offer the post,but SKY will want everyone involved in the team to come across well in interviews etc.so many cols,so little time!0 -
nick hanson wrote:Much as I respect his history in the sport,I sure hope he gets some media training.
To a few,he comes across as laid back,but to many,his speach is almost slured.
Contador for one,said his understanding of the English language was coming on,but struggled to understand Sean.
I'm sure he has plenty to offer the post,but SKY will want everyone involved in the team to come across well in interviews etc.
I respect Yates a lot....he was a great domestique...mostly helped others win...recently people claimed he was + by the A and B sample process...he was not...his 1988 TDF TT win was the best win ever by a Brit IMO in the 1980s0 -
Dave_1 wrote:nick hanson wrote:Much as I respect his history in the sport,I sure hope he gets some media training.
To a few,he comes across as laid back,but to many,his speach is almost slured.
Contador for one,said his understanding of the English language was coming on,but struggled to understand Sean.
I'm sure he has plenty to offer the post,but SKY will want everyone involved in the team to come across well in interviews etc.
I respect Yates a lot....he was a great domestique...mostly helped others win...recently people claimed he was + by the A and B sample process...he was not...his 1988 TDF TT win was the best win ever by a Brit IMO in the 1980s
I would class Yates as a super domestic, someone with winning class who sacrificed his chances for the benefit of the team and the team leader, not just another bottle carrier. The year he won that TdF TT he also won the Tour of Belgium overall. Perhaps if he was allowed his head more often he would have developed to be a credible as a true team leader in his own rights.To err is human, but to make a real balls up takes a super computer.0 -
Yates was invited to work for Discovery by Armstrong and was with them when all that "peleton gossip" was circulating about Discovery's highly 'professional' blood doping set-up, complete with a motorcycle with refrigerated compartments to ferry the blood about. (The validity of which was confirmed by at least two independent sources). It is hardly credible that Yates would have been unaware of this set up. Then again he is British, and Brits don't have anything to do with doping, do they? :roll:Dave_1 wrote:
:roll: :roll:BikingBernie wrote:
There is probably little to worry about. I am sure Yates learnt an awful lot from the time he spent working with Bruyneel, Armstrong, Riis and the rest...markwalker wrote:the clean team.
i really hope they dont have positive tests, perhaps Bruyneel would have been the best to be sure
Perhaps another reason why Armstrong and Yates get on so well together is their shared Francophobia...
http://www.seanyates.co.uk/diary/march08.htmThe French, don't start me on that one please. Thank God for the English Channel. As the mother of one of my good friends said "God put the Channel their for a reason" we were talking about the channel tunnel at the time. She did not think it was a good idea.0 -
nick hanson wrote:Much as I respect his history in the sport,I sure hope he gets some media training.
To a few,he comes across as laid back,but to many,his speach is almost slured.
Contador for one,said his understanding of the English language was coming on,but struggled to understand Sean.
I'm sure he has plenty to offer the post,but SKY will want everyone involved in the team to come across well in interviews etc.
health issues?
hardcore domestique....
get on the front and put your head down school of cycling..."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Not to mention 'When it comes to anything to do with doping, keep your mouth shut'...mididoctors wrote:health issues?
hardcore domestique....
get on the front and put your head down school of cycling...
Hate to say it but on this one even the denizens of 'Veloriders' seem to be more clued up than many on here...
http://www.veloriders.co.uk/phpBB2/view ... hp?t=88141this guy is part of all that is wrong with our sport and the team that was going to have no truck with this goes and hires him
http://www.veloriders.co.uk/phpBB2/view ... hp?t=873690 -
BikingBernie wrote:
Not to mention 'When it comes to anything to do with doping, keep your mouth shut'...mididoctors wrote:health issues?
hardcore domestique....
get on the front and put your head down school of cycling...
Hate to say it but on this one even the denizens of 'Veloriders' seem to be more clued up than many on here...
http://www.veloriders.co.uk/phpBB2/view ... hp?t=88141this guy is part of all that is wrong with our sport and the team that was going to have no truck with this goes and hires him
http://www.veloriders.co.uk/phpBB2/view ... hp?t=87369
I'd guess yates doesn't have such a secure financial situation to risk his employment in the sport, doesn't have the luxury of telling everything...he spent his years helping others win, unlike Lemond...so cut him some slack...
For others-not you Aurelio, who are readng this thread and willing to have a go at non doping discussion..what good might Yates bring to Sky?
Yates will surely help in the classics, he knows them well enough? SY is an good investment IMO0 -
Yates was DS for Salvoldelli's 2nd Giro win so he must have something to offer ... take away all the hearsay and it's a good signing ... a DS who has won a GT ... with quite a weak team as well ...Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it.0
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Dave, poor Sean Yates might not be free to speak his mind, but that's his issue and not Sky's. Doesn't look great but only a few fans will care, no one else will really know. Still, some knowledgeable, loyal or passionate fans do care about omerta, it's to be expected that some of us on cycling forums will think "ah, this team isn't whiter than white".
In his defence, even having a bad past doesn't mean someone arrives with a fridge full of dodgy hormones. He can have a second chance.
For me, he's not known as the craftiest tactician, nor the finest manager. He suited Armstrong quite well in that he's very blunt, a rider faffing around, who doesn't pull hard and follow the team orders would get a few choice swearwords. Perfect for Armstrong and a team built to serve the Texan.
Good luck to Yates, but are there not better tacticians and better managers out there?0 -
BikingBernie wrote:Not to mention 'When it comes to anything to do with doping, keep your mouth shut'...
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I doubt very very very much he is untainted...
[semi-baseless insinuation]health issues[/semi-baseless insinuation]
GWTP"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
type:epyt wrote:Yates was DS for Salvoldelli's 2nd Giro win so he must have something to offer ... take away all the hearsay and it's a good signing ... a DS who has won a GT ... with quite a weak team as well ...
they had lotto and a cheque book
still they rode it well..... entertaining race that."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
yes, I doubt untainted like 100s of others in that era but like most he likely needs a job, knows the business, can't therefore be picked on, so our anti doping heros on bikeradar haven't got much to whinge about if we're honestmididoctors wrote:BikingBernie wrote:Not to mention 'When it comes to anything to do with doping, keep your mouth shut'...
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I doubt very very very much he is untainted...
[semi-baseless insinuation]health issues[/semi-baseless insinuation]
GWTP0 -
makes a mockery of the brailsford interview with kimmage and his desire not to hire people with questionable pasts. utter bullsh*t if you ask me.0
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intothe12 wrote:makes a mockery of the brailsford interview with kimmage and his desire not to hire people with questionable pasts. utter bullsh*t if you ask me.
well, you suggest who else can be asked to run the sky team?0 -
I'm not suggesting that Amateur teams do not have their own little problems, but the introduction of existing amateur DS into the sport and not employing protour DS's might be the way to go. Maybe bringing back Herety or some other Premier Calendar DS might be a good start.
the argument will be made that Yates, Sunderland etc.. have the local knowledge of the Protour scene, but the also have the track record of working in teams where it may have been required to turn a blind eye or not ask questions into certain practices.
It is not as is the team are not taking a different approach to everything else, ants, chimps et al.. so employing man managers from outside the pro-scene might be the way forward. it would also give credibility to the image of a new start, clean approach, but you would have to throw out all realistic notions of a tour de France podium place next year.0 -
Sean Yates may or may not have turned a blind eye to doping in Disco/doped himself up, but I suspect that if Jene-Rene Bernardeau or Marc Madiot got the job, nobody would be too bothered about their doping history:
http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/aveux.htm
I know that these men have turned their back on doping, so why can't somebody else who may have been tainted?0 -
There is no reason whatsoever. But both Bernardeau and Madiot have been vocal in their objections to doping. Yates, meanwhile, has been silent.0
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andyp wrote:There is no reason whatsoever. But both Bernardeau and Madiot have been vocal in their objections to doping. Yates, meanwhile, has been silent.
once upon a time Madtiot's reaction to Kimmages 1990 book was "typical comment from a guy who wasn't any good" and more recently even Wiggins was warned off interviewing with Kimmage by the bros when BW was at FDJ...so, plenty people have previous...why pick up on one ?0 -
intothe12 wrote:I'm not suggesting that Amateur teams do not have their own little problems, but the introduction of existing amateur DS into the sport and not employing protour DS's might be the way to go. Maybe bringing back Herety or some other Premier Calendar DS might be a good start.
the argument will be made that Yates, Sunderland etc.. have the local knowledge of the Protour scene, but the also have the track record of working in teams where it may have been required to turn a blind eye or not ask questions into certain practices.
It is not as is the team are not taking a different approach to everything else, ants, chimps et al.. so employing man managers from outside the pro-scene might be the way forward. it would also give credibility to the image of a new start, clean approach, but you would have to throw out all realistic notions of a tour de France podium place next year.
Herety had a few years in France and seasons in Zoetemelk's teams...and Joop was once + so that means Herety must be involved lol
. Being serious, I kind of agree re your suggestion of brining in lower tier team management ..maybe even people who were never pros given the shambles this current lot of DSs and all their bolloxs training courses have made of the sport...clean up done etc...cover up? 0 -
Madiot has previous but after the EPO incident at FDJ* but made his apologies and moved on. Yates can't make an apology as easily as it would put some heat on Bruyneel and Armstrong.
But like people say, Brailsford is good at promises but doesn't look 100% rigourous in staff selection. There seems to be a rush to turn the team into force from day one. But attitudes like this, and the pressure linked to it, can encourage some to cut corners or try "instant result" solutions. Let's hope the inner chimp inside each member of staff is a reformed anti-doper.
As for outsiders, Manolo Saiz wasn't a cyclist and look what happened there. Insiders or outsiders don't matter so much, attitude and openess count for a lot more today. I'd like to see a journalist interview Yates on doping, would he be relaxed and open to questions on this matter?
* a stash of vials belonging to Gianetti and... Sciandri was found, the story scared the sponsor, a meeting was held, Madiot promised to reform everything, the team went clean.0 -
I do think lower tier guys or people with no previous involvement could be the way forward. the only hole in my own argument is Manolo Saiz, he was a PE teacher for god's sake.. he probably got in there and thought...no other way to win other than doping up the lads...he was also to be fair one of the first using all the new technology, (lemond aside) such as HR monitors, and he had the boys email him their results...(i assume training results and not blood results), i guess the sponsors turned a blind eye to his requirement for cash in brown envelopes (ok bad joke...blind eye, ONCE...get it...I'l get my coat).
Anyway, i think the main difference is that none of the teams that Bernardeau and Madiot etc..claim to be a shining light and anti-drug paragons, mr clean etc... this is obviously a key tenet of the braildsford philiospohy.0 -
Kléber wrote:Madiot has previous but after the EPO incident at FDJ* but made his apologies and moved on. Yates can't make an apology as easily as it would put some heat on Bruyneel and Armstrong.
But like people say, Brailsford is good at promises but doesn't look 100% rigourous in staff selection. There seems to be a rush to turn the team into force from day one. But attitudes like this, and the pressure linked to it, can encourage some to cut corners or try "instant result" solutions. Let's hope the inner chimp inside each member of staff is a reformed anti-doper.
As for outsiders, Manolo Saiz wasn't a cyclist and look what happened there. Insiders or outsiders don't matter so much, attitude and openess count for a lot more today. I'd like to see a journalist interview Yates on doping, would he be relaxed and open to questions on this matter?
* a stash of vials belonging to Gianetti and... Sciandri was found, the story scared the sponsor, a meeting was held, Madiot promised to reform everything, the team went clean.
and why does Yates have to be interviewed on doping specifically? Find something on him first at least. And where was your story about Sciandri sourced from? And did you not shudder at the treatment wiggins got from Madiots for talking to kimmage...I have never met or seen or read much about Madiot-classy Paris Roubaix wins though...but get serious...he's now better than Yates and you are really on about Armstrong again.0 -
The head of marketing at FDJ, Patrick Buffard.Dave_1 wrote:And where was your story about Sciandri sourced from?
As for Yates, no need for a special interview, that would be odd. But it's an issue to be addressed. Did he come across it at Motorola, did he read Max Testa's leaflets? Hopefully "our Sean" will be relaxed about these things and can explain things calmly, no need for a dose of omerta.
Anyway, this isn't a burning issue in the sport. But it's exposing a potential gap between Brailsford reassuring talk and his actions.0 -
Sciandri has been involved with BC for ages, so BC do have a history of not looking too hard, Yates is just another to add to the list. And there have been plenty of rumours about other coaching staff and riders at BC over the years. The only plus for me is that I've never heard a rumour about the new generation, so maybe all the old guard are reformed :?
Kimmage is a bitter and twisted individual I wouldn't do an interview with him, regardless of whether I was clean or dirty.0 -
Kléber wrote:
The head of marketing at FDJ, Patrick Buffard.Dave_1 wrote:And where was your story about Sciandri sourced from?
As for Yates, no need for a special interview, that would be odd. But it's an issue to be addressed. Did he come across it at Motorola, did he read Max Testa's leaflets? Hopefully "our Sean" will be relaxed about these things and can explain things calmly, no need for a dose of omerta.
Anyway, this isn't a burning issue in the sport. But it's exposing a potential gap between Brailsford reassuring talk and his actions.
yates has no reason to talk about doping...nobody has any reason to ask him about doping either. yates may well just fit in...ask few questions.
Can you give as the actual quote, the source...where the Sciandri was caught with drugs story is to be read? I suspect it doesn't exist...would BC work with Sciandri if this were so? I was around in 1998 and remember nothing about Sciandri and drugs0
