uk steel hardtails

jimer

thinking of upgrading my bike and started looking at uk steel hardtails, orange p7, whyte 19 steel, cotic soul only to be told there made in taiwan. can anyone tell me if this is true? & is it possible to get a uk made steel bike for around £1600. cheers[/b]

The Northern Monkey

Th majority (all? lol) frames are made in taiwan.... what difference does it make anyways?

supersonic

Curtis still build in the UK, as do some custom builders. But nothing wrong at all with the far eastern ones, the facilities they have are better than we have in the UK!

delcol

i thought i was buying english when i got my pace rc 305 last year, only to be dissapointed to see tiwan on the frame, i guess it's designed over here tested over here but manufactured out in the far east,, it's still a top quality bike and i still love to ride it..

even my santa cruz was made in the far east, i thought i was buying something all american,, it seems most companies have facilaties in the east,,

Anonymous

I believe Curtis is the only steel mtb frames made in the UK while the rest is made overseas.

I am not sure if Genesis and Charge is made in UK as they are both british company.

supersonic

Charge and Genesis are overseas.

The 'designed' in the UK does often trick people into thinking it was welded here too - that is what they want you to be thinking. Fact is so are Carrera, Saracen, Apollo, Townsend, British Eagle etc ;-)

nicklouse

Look at it like this.

it is cheaper to send Reynolds 853 steel tubes to Taiwan for assembly and welding and sent back than getting the frame assembled and welded in the UK.

So very few are UK actually UK made.

Anonymous

It does make you wonder why Curtis frames is so expensive to have them made in UK with our current pound.

rossi46

chas roberts in croydon-excellent quaility-i've been lucky enough to own 2 and still have a road frame after 17 years and still love it-it will out last me!

nicklouse

rossi46 wrote:

chas roberts in croydon-excellent quaility-i've been lucky enough to own 2 and still have a road frame after 17 years and still love it-it will out last me!

yep but £900 for the frame.

stubs

List of UK frame builders

http://www.framebuilding.com/custom_uk_bicycle_framebuilders.htm

A lot of them are one man in a shed with a box of files and a brazing torch and are likely to be mildly eccentric (or mad as a box of frogs take your pick)

supersonic

All seem to be called Ron or Doug!

dave_hill

guybe wrote:

It does make you wonder why Curtis frames is so expensive to have them made in UK with our current pound.

Because they use T45 tubing, which isn't cheap. It's also very hard on hand tools such as files and hacksaws.

Also, the tubing of each frame which is built in the UK (and actually, Curtis do now have their 4130 MX24 frames built in Taiwan) is hand cut and mitred specifically for the customer's requirements - no two are the same. They are truly custom built.

supersonic

T45 as used on bikes is not dissimilar to the manganese/moly tubes by Reynolds ie 531. Yield and UTS is about the same, and nowhere near that of 853.

Dirtydog11

dave_hill wrote:

guybe wrote:

It does make you wonder why Curtis frames is so expensive to have them made in UK with our current pound.

Because they use T45 tubing, which isn't cheap. It's also very hard on hand tools such as files and hacksaws.

Also, the tubing of each frame which is built in the UK (and actually, Curtis do now have their 4130 MX24 frames built in Taiwan) is hand cut and mitred specifically for the customer's requirements - no two are the same. They are truly custom built.

Plus a lifetime warranty on all handbuilt frames. You crash it and they'll repair it.

Quote:
We also offer a lifetime guarantee on ALL our handmade frames which means should it break, your frame will be repaired by us free of charge for life. Paint and frame decals come to a cost of £65 on all frames repaired. After repair, your frame comes back looking as new as the day you bought it. Our guarantee covers every type of frame failure including head tube flaring.

Northwind

Cy from Cotic made a comment on this once on STW, basically said that he'd like to have the Cotics made in the UK but it makes no sense, since the only people that could cover his numbers aren't just more expensive, they're also not as good as the far eastern builders he uses. People like to think we just can't compete with cheap labour but the skill and quality coming out of the better far eastern factories is pretty peerless.

When you look at the Curtis XC, and see it fills the exact same role as a Soul, costs 50% more and weighs exactly a pound more for a medium than a Soul, you have to ask whether it's worth it for a wee "made in the UK" sticker and a warranty you'll most likely never use. Or, £875 for the 853 version, which is still heavier than a Soul. Of course, you do get the option to customise the design.

And I'm certainly not going to hold up a Soul as a bargain option

supersonic

I think the Soul is perhaps the best steel hardtail frame there is and will be for some time, taking into account the weight, strength, price and ride.

I do like the custom optins of Curtis though, but you pay a lot for it!

blister pus

supersonic wrote:

I think the Soul is perhaps the best steel hardtail frame there is and will be for some time, taking into account the weight, strength, price and ride.

Out of interest, I was informed by email a week or so ago that the Pipedream Sirius has now gone 853 and is still going to hold it's weight. They've put the price up to £275 (except for those who pre-ordered) but it would be well worth a review in light of that development. And I also didn't know that 853 frames are deemed a 'racing frame' and designed for 'extreme use' and are therefore exempt from the new CEN regulations.

supersonic

Is this the new Pipedream Brewmaster?

I didn't know that about the CEN and 853 either, but Cotic claims it passes the tests anyway!

blister pus

No this is the 'new' Sirius that was going to be 725 and is now going to be 853 that they haven't even put up on the site yet.

supersonic

Gotcha! Well, if £275 and is 853, will be a bargain!

Northwind

The Curtis site says that the new Sirius is 725?

I don't think that's correct about 853 being immune to CEN tbh, it's just a material. Individual frames can be exempted though.

blister pus

I nearly creamed my pants when they said I was still getting it for £225 including delivery pre-order price.

Northwind

Ah, that's very cool. Phenomenally cheap...

blister pus

Northwind wrote:

The Curtis site says that the new Sirius is 725?

I don't think that's correct about 853 being immune to CEN tbh, it's just a material. Individual frames can be exempted though.

I got an email from them explaining the position and reading between the lines the change to 853 was done from a legal standpoint as much as anything else, so I'm assuming they've done their homework.

Northwind

You'd think, but then you'd think Cotic might have noticed if there's such an exemption? The CEN regs do have an exemption for frames for competition use, but there's absolutely nothing stating that any particular frame material is considered to be for competition use only (and tbh if there was, carbon's far more popular a competition material than 853, yet certainly isn't exempted)

blister pus

I think Cotic would have gone down the Ragley route for obvious reasons and gone for the testing and advertised the fact, is what I think. And I can only state what the frame manufacturer themselves came back to pipedream with.

Northwind

I think most manufacturers have avoided the "competition use" getout because if they do suffer a failure in a CEN country, and say "Oh, but it's a competition frame", then they risk being sued to bits.

Going to declare myself skeptical on this one But regardless of all that, if they can get this to market with that as the permanent price, they're going to upset some people... Pretty remarkable.

blister pus

Northwind wrote:

I think most manufacturers have avoided the "competition use" getout because if they do suffer a failure in a CEN country, and say "Oh, but it's a competition frame", then they risk being sued to bits.

Going to declare myself skeptical on this one

Half of me wants to push the issue and find out, the other doesn't want to rock the boat and end up waiting even longer for a frame. Or not ending up with one at all.

Northwind

Wait til it arrives then push the issue

blister pus

I think that's the correct approach.