Nirvana and DJs half killed guitar music

bompington

Back in the 80s, when I first picked up a guitar (left handed just like Cobain & Hendrix of course) it was a pretty counter-cultural thing to do.
Now you see thousands of kids walking around with guitars, and my guess is that, whether you like their music or rate it "technically" or not, Nirvana and Oasis were the top motivators behind that.
OK, so a lot of the kids won't get much further than strumming the intro to wonderwall, but some will, and if they (that should be we) don't, so what?
It's got to be better that kids are into the idea that you can make your own music, whether with guitar, decks or didgeridoo, rather than just be passive consumers. I am a staggeringly mediocre guitarist, after 20 odd years of practising I still can't make the Money for Nothing riff sound quite right. It bugs me that I can't play better, but really I don't care, I love doing it anyway.
It tickles me that I'm doing the same thing as Knopfler and Clapton, just not quite as good - kind of the same as on the bike: there's only 2 real differences between Merckx, LA and me - I've only ever taken performance depressing drugs, and they're just a bit faster than me.

Anonymous

Music is music. The pistols had about 3 chords and changed everything. i don't think it matters about skill levels, its what gets you. The White Stripes are also an example of simplicity that works well, as do The velvet Underground, post and pre Nirvana.

mattward1979

Smells like teen spirit started the Grunge revolutiion...

Regardless of guitar skills or solos, Nirvana were the spark that started a brush fire that swept the globe, and allowed the surfacing of MANY amazing bands that, yes, have amazing guitarists and song writers....

Im 30 now, so as a Teen I was right there for the whole grunge scene, start to finish and saw so many awesome bands around London that I irreperably damaged my hearing... (that was by falling asleep drunk leaning up against a speaker stack at a Slayer gig.. )

Although the bands that prospered at this time would have undoubtedly had fame and fortune, I can happily believe that Nirvana was the Lube that allowed them to slip in unfettered!

Screaming trees,
Mudhoney,
Green River,
Mother Love Bone,
Pearl Jam,
Soundgarden,
Temple of the Dog
Alice in Chains.....
Stone temple Pilots

Fair enough the edges are blurred with some of the bands above, but each came through as a result of Nirvana's influence to a greater or lesser degree, and each influenced something else major in the music world......

The death of Andrew wood = Temple of the Dog
RATM + Chris Cornell = Audioslave
Stone temple pilots = Scott Weiland fronting Velvet Revolver
Pearl Jam = Much wider fame and appeal for Neil Young after MTV VMA performance..

And there is so much more but I'd end up publishing a book on the Seattle scene if I dont stop =P

But think of this....

The Harry Potter books were succesful because they had an unmistakeable appeal to a Very wide audience, and entertained without effort. They are easy to read, easy to understand with characters you relate to immediately... These books have improved the literacy of children AND adults by being accessable, and often inspiring people to read more, rather than sit in front of an Xbox 5 hours a day...

Nirvana are the Harry potter books of the Guitar rock music world....
Kids and adults pick up a guitar and strum away to a few Nirvana tracks because they are easy and accessable, giving a near immediate feeling of success and accomplishment. This might then inspire them to move on to more challenging tracks, and even write their own music! How can that EVER be seen as a bad thing....

Sorry for the Epic post, but to finish up, here is a Vid of someone born out of the grunge era, that followed the above path... Not 100% amazing I know, but certainly not an embarrasment to guitarists, and definitely moved on from the strummings of Smells like teen spirit!!

http://www.youtube.com/user/mattyward19 ... fmYphe_eLs

volvine

Here's one for musicians.

The preamble here is that whilst Nirvana's song-writing is up-there, there's not a lot of skill in it guitar-wise... I wouldn't say it could be made better for what it is, but anyone who can play a guitar for 6 months and has got barre chords sussed could play most Nirvana songs.

Thing is Nirvana was a turning point, after that the biggest new guitar band was Oasis, and there's no skill in that either (again, same logic applies to not changing it).

A generation of kids grew up with this music to love and aspire too and those kids didn't seem to want to learn more than what they were listening too, and hence now there aren't many bands with much guitar skill in them. There's exceptions of course, such as Muse... and hundreds of exceptions when you step outside the big-selling artists into Metal, Jazz, whatever....

DJs now mean even less kids pick up guitars, and the musical legacy of kids wanting to be like the Libertines or The Arctic Monkeys or the current crop doesn't hold out much change.

Before Nirvana even the metal scene behind it had a fair amount of skill, good songwriters like Guns n Roses knew how to play and construct a song. Plus, going back a little further loads of prog rock virtuosity was the thing. Like the punk thing in the 70s being a 'just pick up and play', I think Nirvana and other bands at that time had some of this effect on non-vituosity but without the revolution that went with it.

Bands do what bands do, things move in circles, I wonder when there'll be a return to some skilled and brilliant guitar bands in the mainstream not just in the lesser genres, I expect it could be a while, particularly with the current music trends.

(oh, and an afterthought... the last guitar innovator IMO to appear was Tom Morello)

think someone hit on it earlier it is somtimes the simplist riff's that are the most catchy and therfore most popular the biggest rock band of them all and my favorite band AC/DC have had a 35 year career by playing catchy simple kick ass riffs to stamp your feet too this does not mean Angus Young or his brother Malcolm are poor guitar players on the contrary they can smash it with the best of them but it is not want people want to hear 5 minute solo's every song it don't work.
Slash's most famous guitar riff sweet child of mine was him just pissing around warming up he didn't even want the band to use it and you cannot class Slash as a poor guitarist.
as for kids picking up guitars millions have made the first step by playing guitar hero love it or hate it if 1 kid in a 100 picks up a real guitar from playing such games that has to be good and further more all the guitar gods/legends are on these games for the kids to aspire too.

symo

My word. The old “things were better in the good old days” argument on a subject. 80’s metal bands like GnR and Motley Crue and Poison et al whilst being technically good were just an excuse to stick a guitar solo in. As was most prog rock. Now don’t get me wrong I love Iron Maiden (still looking for a Live after Death cycling top; anyone), so this is not a rant against guitar music.
So Muse – nah overblown bombastic pomp that should be kicked back to the 70’s with the way it is so up it’s own arse; as proof look at the music journalists pontificating over the genius of it. Also true for Radiohead or any other lack lustre UK guitar band (of course Spunge being an exception). Also in 10 years time I think I will still hear Nirvana on the radio but I suspect a lot less Muse et al. The genius of good song writing is not in technical ability but in a hook; and Nirvana had a boatload of those.
As for technical ability having died out what about Tom Morello? He is still the most innovative guitar player on the planet. He simply took the concept of guitar playing and the guitar as a rhythm instrument to an insane level.
Not about the guitar solo but how the guitar should serve the song best.

PS I own technics 1210’s mk5 CDJ100mk2 and Native instruments Traktor Scratch Pro. I also own an Ovation Electro Acoustic, a PRS Custom 24 (10 top for those in the know) and a battered old Hohner JT60 (which I believe sounds better than the PRS).

stfc1

symo wrote:

My word. The old “things were better in the good old days” argument on a subject. 80’s metal bands like GnR and Motley Crue and Poison et al whilst being technically good were just an excuse to stick a guitar solo in. As was most prog rock. Now don’t get me wrong I love Iron Maiden (still looking for a Live after Death cycling top; anyone), so this is not a rant against guitar music.
So Muse – nah overblown bombastic pomp that should be kicked back to the 70’s with the way it is so up it’s own ars*; as proof look at the music journalists pontificating over the genius of it. Also true for Radiohead or any other lack lustre UK guitar band (of course Spunge being an exception). Also in 10 years time I think I will still hear Nirvana on the radio but I suspect a lot less Muse et al. The genius of good song writing is not in technical ability but in a hook; and Nirvana had a boatload of those.
As for technical ability having died out what about Tom Morello? He is still the most innovative guitar player on the planet. He simply took the concept of guitar playing and the guitar as a rhythm instrument to an insane level.
Not about the guitar solo but how the guitar should serve the song best.

PS I own technics 1210’s mk5 CDJ100mk2 and Native instruments Traktor Scratch Pro. I also own an Ovation Electro Acoustic, a PRS Custom 24 (10 top for those in the know) and a battered old Hohner JT60 (which I believe sounds better than the PRS).

Poison were not "technically good". In fact, CC Deville is an appalling guitarist. A small point, but one I felt I hand to make

mfin

stfc1 wrote:

symo wrote:

My word. The old “things were better in the good old days” argument on a subject. 80’s metal bands like GnR and Motley Crue and Poison et al whilst being technically good were just an excuse to stick a guitar solo in. As was most prog rock. Now don’t get me wrong I love Iron Maiden (still looking for a Live after Death cycling top; anyone), so this is not a rant against guitar music.
So Muse – nah overblown bombastic pomp that should be kicked back to the 70’s with the way it is so up it’s own ars*; as proof look at the music journalists pontificating over the genius of it. Also true for Radiohead or any other lack lustre UK guitar band (of course Spunge being an exception). Also in 10 years time I think I will still hear Nirvana on the radio but I suspect a lot less Muse et al. The genius of good song writing is not in technical ability but in a hook; and Nirvana had a boatload of those.
As for technical ability having died out what about Tom Morello? He is still the most innovative guitar player on the planet. He simply took the concept of guitar playing and the guitar as a rhythm instrument to an insane level.
Not about the guitar solo but how the guitar should serve the song best.

PS I own technics 1210’s mk5 CDJ100mk2 and Native instruments Traktor Scratch Pro. I also own an Ovation Electro Acoustic, a PRS Custom 24 (10 top for those in the know) and a battered old Hohner JT60 (which I believe sounds better than the PRS).

Poison were not "technically good". In fact, CC Deville is an appalling guitarist. A small point, but one I felt I hand to make

Neither was Mick Mars, really dodgy when exposed so to speak. Think someone mentioned the Screaming Trees, I know this is a solo but this is bad enough to make you cringe or smile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z6_zqk7V10 ...go to about 2mins in then start listening

volvine

Zakk Wylde is a great example never made the mainstream yet you will struggle to find a better talent on the axe than him pure genius.

iainf72

What about Buckethead?

Real talent will probably never be mainstream. Like Jello said, the dumbest buy the mostest.

AndyRubio

Guitars are for old people. Synths rule.

Porgy

AndyRubio wrote:

Guitars are for old people. Synths rule.

Synths rule, but they are slightly for old people as well <gets out old Kraftwerk and Ultravox LPs> :oops:

likewoah

Guitar/Bass/Drum has been done to death hasn't it? What is left for them to innovate?
It's really quite a limited palette.
But as someone who hoped dance music would kill off guitar bands for good I'm amazed how many kids nowadays want to be in bands like that!

militantmandy

"Before Nirvana even the metal scene behind it had a fair amount of skill,"

Even! Even! I think you'll find metal has been at the forefront of technical skill for a long time!

volvine

here here

Porgy

there there :P

Jez mon

volvine wrote:

Zakk Wylde is a great example never made the mainstream yet you will struggle to find a better talent on the axe than him pure genius.

Nah too may pinch harmonics!

Mettan

iainf72 wrote:

What about Buckethead?

Yes, a talented guitarist and musician - I prefer Holdsworth, Gambale and Shawn Lane. I'm a big Fusion fan, so that's not suprising - Shawn was a technical (guitaring) genius, although compared to Holdsworth, Shawn's melodic language is quite simple. Holdsworth and Gambale are still going strong.

spanielsson

AndyRubio wrote:

Guitars are for old people. Synths rule.

So you own a Guitar, not a Synth then?

skyd0g

AndyRubio wrote:

Guitars are for old people. Synths rule.

A Synth? That's one of those electric piano-forte, harpsichord type things then? The kind of thing that Rick Wakeman and ELP used to play?

mfin

mattward1979 wrote:

Sorry for the Epic post, but to finish up, here is a Vid of someone born out of the grunge era, that followed the above path... Not 100% amazing I know, but certainly not an embarrasment to guitarists, and definitely moved on from the strummings of Smells like teen spirit!!

http://www.youtube.com/user/mattyward19 ... fmYphe_eLs

...a Rhoads fan then? that takes me back, learnt to play a lot of that myself when I was younger ...shame his life was cut short, I know a lot of people only went on about his classical leanings/crossover but he had a hell of a lot of feel and raw energy, certainly set himself apart from the crowd, Tribute album? ...definitely good cos every guitarist who followed him had to play those big tracks, and I can't remember a single example where someone doesn't muck it all up trying to fit more notes in and misses the point. Best standalone guitarist of that heavy rock era for me I think.

reluctant

I met Randy Rhodes once, he was a fab guitarist and an all round nice kinda fella. Must still have his autograph somewhere on the same bit of paper with Ozzy Osbourne. 8)

mmitchell88

Mettan wrote:

I prefer Holdsworth, Gambale and

No. Just stop there. Any more and you'll regret it. Not tomorrow, but at some point in your future efforts to procreate, you will regret it.