Alpe D'Huez or Mont Ventoux? Or other?

Baybash

I'm planning my 2010 cycling goals and would like to include a big Tour de France climb. However, everthing I hear about Ventoux makes me think I should go for another slightly less tough one as I'm only really starting to train properly. Any thoughts or either of these or another and just how fit will I need to be????

geoff_ss

The Ventoux is brilliant. If a couple of OAPs can manage it (albeit, gently with a picnic half way up) then anyone can. Pick a good day, though,if the views are as important as the athleticism. They were to us.

Geoff

bobtbuilder

Both are excellent climbs.

Personally I would choose Alpe d'Huez, as you have several other cols very nearby (Croix de Fer, Les Deux Alpes, Telegraphe, Galibier) as well as several other smaller climbs (the Col d'Ornon is a stunning climb).

Although the region around Ventoux is also good for riding, there are no other big cols close by.

morrisje

I've done both. Mont Ventoux was the better experience., when you get above the tree line you really feel you are on another planet. Alp D'Huez is not a pretty road. Very concrete and lots of traffic. Obviously there are many other routes nearby.

There is some great cycling near Mont Ventoux around a large gorge area. Great two days cycling. The Alps are better for a longer trip.

hodsgod

I went skiing in Alpe D'Huez about ten years ago. I have respect for anyone that can go up that mountain on a bike. I am not brave enough.

boyfriday

I managed both in July, and would have to say that they are both wonderful climbs - the sense of pride, history and achievement as you ascend is wonderful.

In terms of difficulty, i would have to say Ventoux was considerably tougher, but perhaps more rewarding for it. For me, Ventoux was tougher than i expected, and Alpe de Huez (where by no means was it easy), it was a lot easier than i expected.

I think this was a result mainly of the switchbacks, as they provide wonderful respite and almost a few yards of flat road and a slingshot up the next ramp. Whereas Ventoux is just a long winding road (mainly) and it is nothing short of relentless.

If you intend to go and try some other climbs, then there is probably no better place than Alpe de Huez region - climbs already mentioned by bobtbuilder - but if you fancy some leisurely cycling with Ventoux thrown in, then the Provence region is very beautiful and provides ample opportunity for it.

bobtbuilder

In terms of difficulty, i would have to say Ventoux was considerably tougher, but perhaps more rewarding for it. For me, Ventoux was tougher than i expected, and Alpe de Huez (where by no means was it easy), it was a lot easier than i expected.

Weird - I found almost the total opposite. Ventoux was easier than I expected, except for a mad spint in the last 3km to record a sub 2hour climb. I found Alpe d'Huez really difficult and much harder than I expected, especially the first 3km.

I don't like big changes in gradient, and therefore I struggled after each hairpin when the gradient got steeper.

However, I am pretty good on a constant gradient, and was much happier with the Ventoux.

One piece of advice for any Alpine trip - no matter the weather on the climb, take an extra layer for the descent.

boyfriday

I should have perhaps clarified my narrative by saying that my climb of Ventoux came at the end of the Etape, and therefore with 95 miles already in my legs - combine that with 40 degree heat, and i think i have my reason why it was so tough!

However, Alpe de Huez was a roll out of the supermarket in Bourg D'Oisans and up the road.

Although, looking back i do think i would always find Ventoux hard. I found it to be a slog, at steady gradients, and just a relentless rising road with no respite - i dealt okay with the changing gradient on Alpe de Huez because there . I think the lack of scenery on the way up (until Chalet Reynard) maybe played a part, so my mind was totally focused on the road, the climb and the pain.

However, Alpe de huez is beautiful almost from the outset in terms of Alpine scenery and there is a wonderful shot down into the valley from around half-way. I felt that this took my mind off the climbing to an extent, and the km's seemed to pass pretty quickly.

wyattlad

Depends what you want to get out of it. Done both several times in all weathers from Snow and freezing (when Ventoux closed to cars, but sneaked under barrier and carved a way through the snow and ice) to sun and 40 degrees. Ventoux every time for me, more challenging and longer. FWIW and comparison: My best time up Ventoux is 1hr 45mins, best time up the Alpe is 50 mins, so a significant diffrenence in effort! The cycling around the Alpe and your options have been well documented above, but don't discount the Ventoux just for that reason, the area has lots of challenging rides and great scenery e.g. Gorge De Verdun.

Brian B

bobtbuilder wrote:

Both are excellent climbs.

Personally I would choose Alpe d'Huez, as you have several other cols very nearby (Croix de Fer, Les Deux Alpes, Telegraphe, Galibier) as well as several other smaller climbs (the Col d'Ornon is a stunning climb).

Although the region around Ventoux is also good for riding, there are no other big cols close by.

If you are going to the Alpe I would also recommend the climb up to La Berarde in addtion to the above. Its stunning!

If going to Ventoux go with Veloventoux.com and get some maps from Craig for routes outwith Ventoux. The area has a lot more climbs then expected and roads are usually very quiet(weather is great as well).

pneumatic

Done both, loved both.

Alpe was an easier climb (even though I had done Telegraph/Galibier the day before).

Ventoux from Bedoin was unrelentingly brutal but very rewarding when you get to the moonscape.

I did the Alpe in September (i.e. off season) so it was quiet. Hardly any cars and just enough cyclists for company. I imagine that in high season it is much more crowded and possibly less fun.

The Running Man

Also thinking of a big French climbing holiday next summer.

Did any of you make any significant gear ratio changes? For instance if I'm doing a climb every day or at least every other, should I stick a triple on just to make sure I get up ??

(Noted the advice on an extra layer for the descent!!)

Thanks.

bobtbuilder

Did any of you make any significant gear ratio changes?

I changed from the 53/39 gearing that my bike came with to a standard compact. I kept the 12-25 cassette as it was.

This was fine for me, and I'm a fairly chunky rider (84kg). I was riding 1-3 big cols per day.

It's not the gradients that are the problem, it's the length of the climbs that is the real killer. Starting a 15km+ climb that's going to take uopwards of 1 hour before you reach the top is a completely different proposition to what we face in the UK.

boyfriday

Exactly what BobtBuilder said:

(i) i rode them quite comfortably on a standard triple with a 12-25. It was fine and perfectly manageable; and

(ii) it is the sheer length and unrelenting nature that presents the biggest shock to the system.

Ventoux was my first Tour de France climb, and that's why i think it was perhaps harder than i thought it would be - i was climbing wondering when it was going to end, and hitting the 34-25 at the bend of St Esteive with 16km to go, and knowing it was all uphill for the next 1hr+ with no lower gear was mentally as tough as it was phyiscally.

The Running Man

Hmm : I was afraid you were going to say that but a couple of hours of unrelenting agony on the slopes of the Alpe is infinitely preferable to a couple of hours of unrelenting shopping .....

Don't tell her I said so ..... she's probably listening ......

Anonymous

Geoff_SS wrote:

The Ventoux is brilliant. If a couple of OAPs can manage it (albeit, gently with a picnic half way up) then anyone can. Pick a good day, though,if the views are as important as the athleticism. They were to us.

Geoff

That sounds so civilised.

hammerite

I think whichever you decide you'll enjoy the experience.

I've only done AdH and loved it. There's so many other climbs to do in the area and other things none cycling related, the whole area is lovely. (I went there for a summer, and skiing holiday last year).

Baybash

Any ideas how to train for such long climbs when I live in London?

bobtbuilder

Any ideas how to train for such long climbs when I live in London?

The 2x20 intervals sessions (see training forum) are supposed to be good at increasing your max output for longer periods.

Personally, I just tried to ride more. In the UK, we just don't have the same sort of climbs available to train on.

As boyfriday said, the biggest challenge is mentally. I found it quite difficult to adopt a mindset of "OK - I'm going to be climbing for 2hours, and I can do this" when I first started riding Alpine cols.

Having ridden a lot of the big French mountains now, I have found my experience is now a big asset, as I know I can do it. Also, I found driving a Col before riding it (when I had a hire car handy!) great for having a better mental picture of what to expect when riding it. E.G. how long the really nasty gradient lasts for.

geoff_ss

Baybash wrote:

Any ideas how to train for such long climbs when I live in London?

Just get the miles in at a reasonable level of effort. All the training I ever did was commuting 27 miles a day plus normal leisure riding (club runs, audaxes etc) and both my wife and I found the climbs comfortable and greatly satisfying. I just find it rather harder now than it was 30 years ago The gradients are generally not very great - nothing like the Lake District for example - so climbing them just needs general fitness. Climbing them competitively is a different matter, of course.

My first major col was the Aubisque from Laruns one wet evening. We ended up there after a day's ride and set up camp in Laruns. As we were making for the Spanish border the following day we couldn't resist riding up the col despite heavy rain - after all, it was only 16km to the summit. We found it easy without the camping gear. We probably weren't very fast but we did ride it non-stop.

Geoff

Airbornerodent

Oh the memories!

Ventoux was just nasty for a long while; I remember getting to Chalet Reynard with a completely new and unpleasant physiology(something to do with blood moving to the parts that needed it), just after easily the hardest bit climbing that I've ever done (the bit through the trees). That said, what a sense of achievement when I was at the top!

Shortly after Ventoux, we went to the Alpe and we camped literally at the bottom of it. Because we were so close, I was able to use the hill itself as a training ride, so got a bit of practice in before I had a proper go. That, along with the horrendous yet rewarding "training" bash up the |Ventoux, made the Alpe seem a lot easier than Ventoux, though personally, I think that it would have been anyway as it didn't feel as steep and is nowhere near as long.

So which one? Drive and camp, and do both if you can. That said, the Alpe has so many amazing other climbs around it (as has been said many times), and has hosted the greats of cycling many more times, so it has the history too.......

Beware of the heat at Ventoux if you go in the Summer though. We took our one year old daughter and she ended up scrabbling around in the dustbowl that was our campsite. That said, if you're without kids (and even more acceptably, wife), then enjoy the time and freedom that you have and do the lot!

As mentioned above, Gorge De la Nesque at Ventoux is incredible and definately worth a days riding.

The scenery at both is outstanding, so whichever you choose, enjoy!!!

Monty Dog

Baybash wrote:

Any ideas how to train for such long climbs when I live in London?

Starting making regular trips out to the Surrey Hills by taking the train to Dorking - there are plenty of climbs in the area and linking them together can make for a tough session.

pneumatic

Baybash wrote:

Any ideas how to train for such long climbs when I live in London?

An exercise bike or turbo trainer is surprisingly good physical preparation.

I found myself on a cruise ship for 10 days when I was training for the Alps (it's a long story!) and the only way I could keep up the preparation was to go to the gym and use the exercise bikes (normally, I hate these torture chambers but it was that or nothing). I found that 45 minutes to an hour daily on the hilly setting did wonders for my endurance. For one thing, you can't stop pedalling which is just what it is like when you are on these climbs.

The other thing you have to prepare is your mind as this kind of thing is a real psychological battle. I read lots of glossy books about the Grands Cols to get into the adventurous mood and then watched Apollo 13 where "Failure is not an option".

tbshooter

If you're interested in doing both, More Adventure run an 8-day trip that tackles both (in addition to several others too). For more information, visit https://www.moreadventure.co.uk/event/ventoux-to-alpe-dhuez/

cougie

It was 9 years ago now....

svetty

tbshooter wrote:

If you're interested in doing both, More Adventure run an 8-day trip that tackles both (in addition to several others too). For more information, visit https://www.moreadventure.co.uk/event/ventoux-to-alpe-dhuez/

Nice grave-dig :roll: :roll:

trivial_poursuivant

Depending on the time of year , both mont Ventoux and Alpe d’huez are packed. One place that gets kind of forgotten is Col d’izoard. It’s generally a lot quieter in comparison to the other two and it’s not far from either to journey to.

briantrumpet

Personally I don't rate either greatly - both are long slogs - OK, if it's just a slog you want, but neither yield much in the way of scenic delights & surprises, beyond getting you quite high. Obviously both are 'iconic', so I understand why people are attracted by them.

I'd rate col de la Bonette way beyond either in the big/massive climb category, and there are dozens of smaller ones that have given me more pleasure.

trivial_poursuivant

briantrumpet wrote:

there are dozens of smaller ones that have given me more pleasure.

briantrumpet

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

there are dozens of smaller ones that have given me more pleasure.

Oi. Wash your brain out.

Anyway, size isn't everything.

DeVlaeminck

I think Ventoux is a beautiful climb but if you like tranquilty best done on a hot day in early evening when you pretty much have it to yourself. My favourite ascent came when I rode from Avignon navigating by ey looking at Ventoux in the distance on a cheap MTB and did the forest route, met my family at the top then descended to Chalet Reynard and rode up again from there with my then 10 year old son on his Isla bike. It was around 6pm, maybe later, and a totally different feel to climbing it earlier in the day.

Alpe d'Huez I agree isn't scenic but there's enjoyment in passing and being passed by other riders and then sitting outside a cafe at the top watching the world go by. In general though I agree as cyclists we focus too much on the iconic climbs which are chosen because of practical / financial considerations by the Tour rather than for the pleasure of leisure cyclists on a cycling holiday.