Rasmussen : Lie of Lies
A chap called Verner Moller has written a book about the Chicken being chucked from the Tour. He's basically saying it was unsporting
He's basically saying there was "creative" use of the rules and that it shouldn't have happened.
Verner (who's a prof of sports science) seems to forget his team pulled him out rather than him being chucked.
Anyway, he's basically arguing the system is corrupt with the people making the rules doing the policing.
He's basically saying there was "creative" use of the rules and that it shouldn't have happened.
Verner (who's a prof of sports science) seems to forget his team pulled him out rather than him being chucked.
Anyway, he's basically arguing the system is corrupt with the people making the rules doing the policing.
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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Comments
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One point of view,I suppose!so many cols,so little time!0
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I agree that the people making the rules shouldn't be doing the policing, just like I think they shouldn't be doing the testing - all kinds of conflict of interest and transparency issues there0
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iainf72 wrote:Verner (who's a prof of sports science) seems to forget his team pulled him out rather than him being chucked.
Actually, I have it on very good authority (a senior-ish Rabobank employee) that in fact it was "head office" who forced the team to yank Rasmussen. The team were all for letting him stay in, and I guess this is why their main man quit in the aftermath of the Tour...My cycle racing blog: http://cyclingapprentice.wordpress.com/
If you live in or near Sussex, check this out:
http://ontherivet.ning.com/0 -
iainf72 wrote:A chap called Verner Moller has written a book about the Chicken being chucked from the Tour. He's basically saying it was unsporting
He's basically saying there was "creative" use of the rules and that it shouldn't have happened.
Verner (who's a prof of sports science) seems to forget his team pulled him out rather than him being chucked.
Anyway, he's basically arguing the system is corrupt with the people making the rules doing the policing.
A whole book about an incident in the tour????? A whole book???? Am I the only one amazed??????0 -
He makes a compelling argument and I for one am totally convinced Rasmussen was innocent of any wrong doing"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
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Seem they change the rules on riders coming back too. Basso is ok, Mancebo not, Sevilla not, Vino is ok, Miller ok, Hamilton not, Zuelle ok, Garzelli ok, Jackshe not, Heras maybe retired so not.
If anyone can let me know he logic then I'm all ears.
-Jerry“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving”- Albert Einstein
"You can't ride the Tour de France on mineral water."
-Jacques Anquetil0 -
dennisn wrote:iainf72 wrote:A chap called Verner Moller has written a book about the Chicken being chucked from the Tour. He's basically saying it was unsporting
He's basically saying there was "creative" use of the rules and that it shouldn't have happened.
Verner (who's a prof of sports science) seems to forget his team pulled him out rather than him being chucked.
Anyway, he's basically arguing the system is corrupt with the people making the rules doing the policing.
A whole book about an incident in the tour????? A whole book???? Am I the only one amazed??????
Not surprised - especially if you can make a $ out of it. (Although it will probably make 'Breaking the Chain' look like War & Peace in comparison).
Regardless of HOW he was ejected from the TdF, the issue - as far as I can tell - is that he shouldn't have been there in the first place.
No sympathy from me. Think there are bigger injustices in the world than Chicken missing out on a sure TdF win.0 -
jerry3571 wrote:Seem they change the rules on riders coming back too. Basso is ok, Mancebo not, Sevilla not, Vino is ok, Miller ok, Hamilton not, Zuelle ok, Garzelli ok, Jackshe not, Heras maybe retired so not.
If anyone can let me know he logic then I'm all ears.
-Jerry
Basso = did a ban, Liquigas prepared to take the flack. He also has done things to try convince the world he's doing it right
Mancebo = Didn't face a ban but implicated in Puerto. Too much of a risk for teams
Sevilla = Ditto
Vino = Done a ban. Heavy influence with Astana so he gets a ride
Millar = Did his time and repented.
Jorg broke omerta so no one will touch him. That's an issue with teams rather than the rules.
There is a logic to it all.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
dennisn wrote:A whole book about an incident in the tour????? A whole book???? Am I the only one amazed??????
Don't agree. There's a real story here. Rasmussen may well be pro cycling's ultimate scapegoat-turned-villain you know, the circumstances in which he lost his yellow jersey are quite extraordinary. It was like he had won the Tour, no doubt this victory would make him a millionaire and that was all his one-track mind had been craving for ever since he had switched from MTB to road. And then the guy loses everything in, say, just a few hours. And everybody lets him down -the end of his world... Can you imagine how that feels?
And he's kicked out of the Tour (Well, Rabobank's head office kicked him, obviously to please ASO people) and everyone is so happy in the caravan, it's insane, it's such a relief, it's like nobody wanted him to win the Tour and they're all celebrating the crowning of Alberto "almost Puerto" Contador. And an all-important Prudhomme comes to the post-Tour TV show and goes "Contador is just much more credible in yellow..." and then, thick, a*s-kissing beer-quaffing local sports journo Jean-René Godart replies "oh you're absolutely right and that Michael Rasmussen guy, who did he think he was?" Sickening.
Poor Rasmussen, the truth is I never even liked the guy and well, I guess he just played and lost like many, many others but oh boy, I remember the hate campaign he had to put up with in the French press and I have to say I feel sorry for him. I remember local commentateurs portraying him as totally rude and obnoxious,making fun of him, calling him 'Skeletor' or 'stupéfiant' all the time. (stupéfiant being a French word meaning 'amazing' and also meaning 'drugs'). Not giving him a chance. And that was before the 'incident'. Now I really hope he bounces back and wins a few good races if only to p*ss the French media off. And by the way isn't it funny how some people are willing to forgive Gibo Simoni about the 2002 'incident' and won't give the Dane a chance? Double standards, eh?0 -
Good needling of my hypocrisy over Gibo there (The crucial difference being he was able to prove his story adn when was cocaine performance enhancing)... However, Rasmussen was just so easy to dislike. A 58kg, freakish in appearence, obsessive. A nightmare to work with, apparently, and he'd already been warned by his national federation about missing OOC tests.
That he then started mumbling and stuttering over his words in that press conference, contradicting himself and generally looking shiftier than he ever could had he tried to only lent him the air of a dead man walking.
As soon as Cassani "accidentally" broke the Omerta by putting him in Italy before the Tour, whilst he was already one of the UCI's "Men in Black" he was doomed. The nail in his coffin was the fans on the roadside turning against him, whilst he was in yellow, and the races big teams (after the aborted strike).
In many ways he is a victimin the same way that Ullrich, Pantani, Virenque et al were victims and people are right to point out that some guys get to waltz back in and others are made untouchable. Those in the latter column, however, tend to have to really embaress the organisers and teh governing body. Rasmussen's misfortune was that he made the whereabouts system look ridiculous whilst wearing Yellow."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Echo et les Boniments wrote:dennisn wrote:A whole book about an incident in the tour????? A whole book???? Am I the only one amazed??????
Don't agree. There's a real story here. Rasmussen may well pro cycling's ultimate scapegoat-turned-villain you know, the circumstances in which he lost his yellow jersey are quite extraordinary. It was like he had won the Tour, no doubt this victory would make him a millionaire and that was all his one-track mind had been craving for ever since he had switched from MTB to road. And then the guy loses everything in, say, just a few hours. And everybody lets him down -the end of his world... Can you imagine how that feels?
And he's kicked out of the Tour (Well, Rabobank's head office kicked him, obviously to please ASO people) and everyone is so happy in the caravan, it's insane, it's such a relief, it's like nobody wanted him to win the Tour and they're all celebrating the crowning of Alberto "almost Puerto" Contador. And an all-important Prudhomme comes to the post-Tour TV show and goes "Contador is just much more credible in yellow..." and then, thick, a*s-kissing beer-quaffing local sports journo Jean-René Godart replies "oh you're rabsolutely right and that Michael Rasmussen guy, who did he think he was?" Sickening.
Poor Rasmussen, the truth is I never even liked the guy and well, I guess he just played and lost like many, many others but oh boy, I remember the hate campaign he had to put up with in the French press and I have to say I feel sorry for him. I remember local commentateurs portraying him as totally rude and obnoxious,making fun of him, calling him 'Skeletor' or 'stupéfiant' all the time. (stupéfiant being a French word meaning 'amazing' and also meaning 'drugs'). Not giving him a chance. And that was before the 'incident'. Now I really hope he bounces back and wins a few good races if only to p*ss the French media off. And by the way isn't it funny how some people are willing to forgive Gibo Simoni about the 2002 'incident' and won't give the Dane a chance? Double standards, eh?
+1. But Tricky Dicky and Bertie are so much more photogenic...___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
Echo et les Boniments wrote:dennisn wrote:A whole book about an incident in the tour????? A whole book???? Am I the only one amazed??????
Don't agree. There's a real story here. Rasmussen may well pro cycling's ultimate scapegoat-turned-villain you know, the circumstances in which he lost his yellow jersey are quite extraordinary. It was like he had won the Tour, no doubt this victory would make him a millionaire and that was all his one-track mind had been craving for ever since he had switched from MTB to road. And then the guy loses everything in, say, just a few hours. And everybody lets him down -the end of his world... Can you imagine how that feels?
And he's kicked out of the Tour (Well, Rabobank's head office kicked him, obviously to please ASO people) and everyone is so happy in the caravan, it's insane, it's such a relief, it's like nobody wanted him to win the Tour and they're all celebrating the crowning of Alberto "almost Puerto" Contador. And an all-important Prudhomme comes to the post-Tour TV show and goes "Contador is just much more credible in yellow..." and then, thick, a*s-kissing beer-quaffing local sports journo Jean-René Godart replies "oh you're rabsolutely right and that Michael Rasmussen guy, who did he think he was?" Sickening.
Poor Rasmussen, the truth is I never even liked the guy and well, I guess he just played and lost like many, many others but oh boy, I remember the hate campaign he had to put up with in the French press and I have to say I feel sorry for him. I remember local commentateurs portraying him as totally rude and obnoxious,making fun of him, calling him 'Skeletor' or 'stupéfiant' all the time. (stupéfiant being a French word meaning 'amazing' and also meaning 'drugs'). Not giving him a chance. And that was before the 'incident'. Now I really hope he bounces back and wins a few good races if only to p*ss the French media off. And by the way isn't it funny how some people are willing to forgive Gibo Simoni about the 2002 'incident' and won't give the Dane a chance? Double standards, eh?
dont particularly like the chicken, but you make a good and fair point.0 -
call me crap but can someone explain why he got pulledeating parmos since 1981
Canyon Ultimate CF SLX Aero 09
Cervelo P5 EPS
www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=130387990 -
Cal_Stewart wrote:call me crap but can someone explain why he got pulled
You're crap.
Rasmussen basically lied about his whereabouts in the weeks before the Tour de France in order to avoid being drug tested. He was training in Italy, but he told the drug testers he was in Mexico.
His only mistake was meeting the Italian TV commentator Davide Cassani whilst out on a training ride. Cassani relayed this story live on TV during the Tour and someone, somewhere put two and two together.
IIRC it was actually a few days after the story broke that the pressure really started to build on Rasmussen and Rabobank? Cassani's comments and the whereabouts mixup was only a small byline for two or three days?0 -
afx237vi wrote:Cal_Stewart wrote:call me crap but can someone explain why he got pulled
You're crap.
Rasmussen basically lied about his whereabouts in the weeks before the Tour de France in order to avoid being drug tested. He was training in Italy, but he told the drug testers he was in Mexico.
His only mistake was meeting the Italian TV commentator Davide Cassani whilst out on a training ride. Cassani relayed this story live on TV during the Tour and someone, somewhere put two and two together.
IIRC it was actually a few days after the story broke that the pressure really started to build on Rasmussen and Rabobank? Cassani's comments and the whereabouts mixup was only a small byline for two or three days?
I think you do remember correctly - I remember hearing about Cassani's account at least 2 days before the pressure really started to mount on Chicken.
I always wonder about that. What is just because the media @ TdF are so busy it took Cassani's story a few days to be heard by fellow journo's?, and then it just snowballed from there.
Or was it the trigger point for some back-room politics by some power brokers to get the Chicken out?
Maybe the book will go on to explain it??0 -
iainf72 wrote:A chap called Verner Moller has written a book about the Chicken being chucked from the Tour. He's basically saying it was unsporting
He's basically saying there was "creative" use of the rules and that it shouldn't have happened.
Verner (who's a prof of sports science) seems to forget his team pulled him out rather than him being chucked.
Anyway, he's basically arguing the system is corrupt with the people making the rules doing the policing.
Whats the name of the book Ian?0 -
Hadn't Rasmussen already missed 2 tests arranged by the Danish Federation, and then missed another 2 tests arranged by the UCI. Effectively he'd missed 4 tests when the limit for being handed an automatic ban is 3. For some reason [insert conspiracy theory here], the Danish Federation only made the fact that he'd missed 2 of their tests public whilst the Chicken was winning the TdF a couple of months later.afx237vi wrote:Rasmussen basically lied about his whereabouts in the weeks before the Tour de France in order to avoid being drug tested. He was training in Italy, but he told the drug testers he was in Mexico.
His only mistake was meeting the Italian TV commentator Davide Cassani whilst out on a training ride. Cassani relayed this story live on TV during the Tour and someone, somewhere put two and two together.
IIRC it was actually a few days after the story broke that the pressure really started to build on Rasmussen and Rabobank? Cassani's comments and the whereabouts mixup was only a small byline for two or three days?
There was also a lot of smoke at the time coming from past allegations of him asking a friend to smuggle blood boosting products out of the US for him while he was still a mountain biker.0 -
Bronzie wrote:Hadn't Rasmussen already missed 2 tests arranged by the Danish Federation, and then missed another 2 tests arranged by the UCI. Effectively he'd missed 4 tests when the limit for being handed an automatic ban is 3. For some reason [insert conspiracy theory here], the Danish Federation only made the fact that he'd missed 2 of their tests public whilst the Chicken was winning the TdF a couple of months later.
There was also a lot of smoke at the time coming from past allegations of him asking a friend to smuggle blood boosting products out of the US for him while he was still a mountain biker.
That's pretty much exactly how I recall it. The "friend being asked to smuggle doping products" was a fellow racer being asked to bring a box containing some new shoes into/out of the states. The "shoe box" didn't contain shoes
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A quick Google reveals he was actually dropped from the Danish National Team during the TdF as he'd received 3 warnings for failing to inform the authorities of his whereabouts.Bronzie wrote:For some reason [insert conspiracy theory here], the Danish Federation only made the fact that he'd missed 2 of their tests public whilst the Chicken was winning the TdF a couple of months later.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 907568.stm0 -
Lest we forget, by this point Bjarne Riis had decided he was too dodgy to re-sign. Bjarne Riis ladies and gentlemen."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:Lest we forget, by this point Bjarne Riis had decided he was too dodgy to re-sign. Bjarne Riis ladies and gentlemen.
Says it all really
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Any sources that say that he left CSC because Riis thought he was 'too dodgy', and not for another reason? 2002 was another era....ShinyHelmut wrote:
Says it all reallydisgruntledgoat wrote:Lest we forget, by this point Bjarne Riis had decided he was too dodgy to re-sign. Bjarne Riis ladies and gentlemen.0 -
Anyone know what the Chicken is up to now? And any chance that he might ride the TDF (or any grand tour) again?Scott Scale 20 (for xc racing)
Gary Fisher HKEK (for commuting)0 -
boneyjoe wrote:Anyone know what the Chicken is up to now? And any chance that he might ride the TDF (or any grand tour) again?
I doubt he'll ride the tour ever again.
Signed to a team which will get him into a GT (in theory) Not announced yet though.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
FJS wrote:
Any sources that say that he left CSC because Riis thought he was 'too dodgy', and not for another reason? 2002 was another era....ShinyHelmut wrote:
Says it all reallydisgruntledgoat wrote:Lest we forget, by this point Bjarne Riis had decided he was too dodgy to re-sign. Bjarne Riis ladies and gentlemen.
True, but i seem to recall Riis or somebody at CSC arguing that he "didn't fit in" or some such when he was not re-signed and he buzz at the time being that was the reason. I would search for links, but am at work and, sadly, the firewall hates me."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:FJS wrote:
Any sources that say that he left CSC because Riis thought he was 'too dodgy', and not for another reason? 2002 was another era....ShinyHelmut wrote:
Says it all reallydisgruntledgoat wrote:Lest we forget, by this point Bjarne Riis had decided he was too dodgy to re-sign. Bjarne Riis ladies and gentlemen.
True, but i seem to recall Riis or somebody at CSC arguing that he "didn't fit in" or some such when he was not re-signed and he buzz at the time being that was the reason. I would search for links, but am at work and, sadly, the firewall hates me.
harmon relayed "negative feelings and comments" by a lot of the peloton concerning Rasmussen during the Giro 2007.. the impression always was he wasn't liked that much..."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
mididoctors wrote:disgruntledgoat wrote:FJS wrote:
Any sources that say that he left CSC because Riis thought he was 'too dodgy', and not for another reason? 2002 was another era....ShinyHelmut wrote:
Says it all reallydisgruntledgoat wrote:Lest we forget, by this point Bjarne Riis had decided he was too dodgy to re-sign. Bjarne Riis ladies and gentlemen.
True, but i seem to recall Riis or somebody at CSC arguing that he "didn't fit in" or some such when he was not re-signed and he buzz at the time being that was the reason. I would search for links, but am at work and, sadly, the firewall hates me.
harmon relayed "negative feelings and comments" by a lot of the peloton concerning Rasmussen during the Giro 2007.. the impression always was he wasn't liked that much...
He has never struck me as a man that would be too bothered whether he was liked or not so probably some truth to this but maybe not the full story0 -
The Prodigy wrote:mididoctors wrote:disgruntledgoat wrote:FJS wrote:
Any sources that say that he left CSC because Riis thought he was 'too dodgy', and not for another reason? 2002 was another era....ShinyHelmut wrote:
Says it all reallydisgruntledgoat wrote:Lest we forget, by this point Bjarne Riis had decided he was too dodgy to re-sign. Bjarne Riis ladies and gentlemen.
True, but i seem to recall Riis or somebody at CSC arguing that he "didn't fit in" or some such when he was not re-signed and he buzz at the time being that was the reason. I would search for links, but am at work and, sadly, the firewall hates me.
harmon relayed "negative feelings and comments" by a lot of the peloton concerning Rasmussen during the Giro 2007.. the impression always was he wasn't liked that much...
He has never struck me as a man that would be too bothered whether he was liked or not so probably some truth to this but maybe not the full story
It would be tough to win a big tour without at least a few "supporters" on(and off) your team. There has got to be civil communication on a person to person basis in order to get all your apples in one cart. Even in the "famous" LA vs AC TDF of this year I'm betting that
there had to be "support" for everyone, from everyone in order to produce a 1st. and 3rd.place finish result. Staying on good terms with co workers is of the utmost importance
if you expect help when you need it.0 -
Hi there.
Vern is giving a talk on the subject this week if any of you want to attend:
A talk is taking place on Thursday 19th November at Stirling University. The subject of the talk is:
Reasons and Motives for the Exclusion of Michael Rasmussen from the Tour de France 2007 - Professor Verner Moller, Sport and Body Culture, Aarhus University, Denmark.
I thought that some of you may be interested in attending the talk and to find out some more facts about the case. Don't be put off about it being in a lecture theatre at a university as these talks are designed for members of the public who are welcome to attend. I have attached a link to the web site which gives a few more details.
http://www.sports.stir.ac.uk/research/s ... /index.php
The seminars are free to attend and start at 18.00 p.m.
Cheers, Andy0 -
andrewgturnbull wrote:Hi there.
Vern is giving a talk on the subject this week if any of you want to attend:
A talk is taking place on Thursday 19th November at Stirling University. The subject of the talk is:
Reasons and Motives for the Exclusion of Michael Rasmussen from the Tour de France 2007 - Professor Verner Moller, Sport and Body Culture, Aarhus University, Denmark.
I thought that some of you may be interested in attending the talk and to find out some more facts about the case. Don't be put off about it being in a lecture theatre at a university as these talks are designed for members of the public who are welcome to attend. I have attached a link to the web site which gives a few more details.
http://www.sports.stir.ac.uk/research/s ... /index.php
The seminars are free to attend and start at 18.00 p.m.
Cheers, Andy
take a cam and record the interesting bits"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
