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Spesh enduro - pedal strikes

MoogfaceMoogface Posts: 51
edited November 2009 in MTB general
For the last few years I've happily been riding around on a Club Roost XC4, and a Whytes 46, and had no concerns. I've just changed to a Spesh Enduro (2006) and on the first ride experienced awful pedal strike issues, culminating in a trip to A&E to straighten a dislocated finger following a flight over the bars at 20mph.

I've since changed the shock shuttle (mount bracket) to the 'high BB' setting, and also changed the 175mm cranks to 170s. This has helped, but I'm still grounding out where I previously had no probs.

I know the Whyte 46 is an infamously high bike, and the enduro recognised as being pretty low, but my riding style seems suited to a higher bike. Any suggestions for a frame with 5-6 inches of travel that I can replace the enduro with, that has a tall BB height?

I rode a mate's e-commencal meta 5.1 at the weekend and that seemed equally as low as the spesh. Do I need to just adapt my style, or is there a bike out there for me (not another wytes 46 though please!!)
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  • sniper68sniper68 Posts: 2,910
    MMM i've had 2 Enduros,an 04 and my current 08 and i generally ride natural stuff in the Dark Peak/Lakes etc.I rarely suffer pedal strikes.My mate has a Meta 5:5:1 and he seems ok too.Maybe it'll take a while to adjust your style coming from a higher BB bike?
  • grumstagrumsta Posts: 994
    Could get some lower profile pedals as well maybe.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    low BB height is always a tradeoff of agility, versus grounding out.
    If you want to persist with it, you're going to have to change your technique, and try to anticipate it so you can keep your cranks level, I'm afraid.
  • Hercule QHercule Q Posts: 2,781
    low BB height is always a tradeoff of agility, versus grounding out.
    If you want to persist with it, you're going to have to change your technique, and try to anticipate it so you can keep your cranks level, I'm afraid.

    +1

    i've had to change my technique massivly after coming from a hardtail to a full susser with a low bb height, the first time i rode it i swear i almost broke my foot on a tree stump that the hardtail always cleared

    pinkbike
    Blurring the line between bravery and stupidity since 1986!
  • P-JayP-Jay Posts: 1,478
    I've been runing my 06 Enduro since, well 06 and it doesn'y have the greatest pedal clearence. I switched to 170mm pedal arms, but still run the low shock mount and it's a lot better.

    They're notoriously low, but that's why they're so stable...

    One thing that does phase me a bit, my expert came with Talas 36 as OE. Great forks, but if you run anything other that full travel whilst climbing, you might as well be walking up the amount of times your feet / pedals hit the ground. Would have been better with plain Floats, especially as the 06 Talas are only 150mm and Floats were 160mm
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    mmmmm float 36s.
    I love mine :D

    I've tried a few low BB bikes, but after riding bikes with monster-truck levels of clearance for years I just didn't get on.
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Try les sag or more low speed compression damping. Or big deep tyres!
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Less sag even. Les Sag is a place in France.
  • Hercule QHercule Q Posts: 2,781
    Bike radar charity event; run les sag, sponsored run around the town :lol::wink:

    pinkbike
    Blurring the line between bravery and stupidity since 1986!
  • Interesting about the TALAS forks causing pedal strikes when in reduced travel mode - reducing the crown to axle height would result in a lower head angle and lower BB height. I'm temporarily running some Rock Shox revs, (130mm travel) but I'm after some longer travel forks with a higher axle to crown height. That should lift the front up and help somewhat. Perhaps that's my first course of action and then I'll see how things go from there.

    I'm using spds, (shim LX) which whilst aren't particularly low profile, aren't very deep either. I guess lower profile SPDs would be lighter weight and more prone to breaking when smashed into rocks. At least the LXs are sturdy!

    Changing the frame would be a last resort, because as has been mentioned, in all other areas it's exceptional!
  • joshtpjoshtp Posts: 3,966
    ahh, the 130mm fork will be a huge part of the problem, its a 150mm bike, you could run 160 on it happily, almost an inch less fork will lower the bb by quite alot!
    I like bikes and stuff
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    ahh, the 130mm fork will be a huge part of the problem, its a 150mm bike, you could run 160 on it happily, almost an inch less fork will lower the bb by quite alot!

    not really. the 2006 enduro and the enduro elite were a 130mm bikes.

    the expert, pro and s works were 110-150.

    but also note that the rear travel was not the same.

    the enduro and elite were about 140mm
    the expert to S-works were 150mm
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • dresbodresbo Posts: 129
    I guess a longer travel fork would give you around 1/2 that extra travel as clearance at the bb, which would be quite a difference.

    Perhaps try some 150/160 forks. 130 is too short for this frame anyhoo.
  • joshtpjoshtp Posts: 3,966
    nicklouse wrote:
    ahh, the 130mm fork will be a huge part of the problem, its a 150mm bike, you could run 160 on it happily, almost an inch less fork will lower the bb by quite alot!

    not really. the 2006 enduro and the enduro elite were a 130mm bikes.

    the expert, pro and s works were 110-150.

    but also note that the rear travel was not the same.

    the enduro and elite were about 140mm
    the expert to S-works were 150mm
    ohh, ok, i supose in 04/5 the stumpy was 100mm, now its 140mm, sim, the enduro has gone up.
    I like bikes and stuff
  • Ok, seems the forks are the first thing to tackle... Anyone got any 150-160mm forks for under £200? 8)
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    Moogface wrote:
    Ok, seems the forks are the first thing to tackle... Anyone got any 150-160mm forks for under £200? 8)

    which frame is it?

    as they are not all the same!
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Full suss bikes seem to be getting lower bb's every year, all in the name of lowering the centre of gravity for more stability/improved cornering. Marin for example claimed to have lowered the bb on the Mount Vision and Attack Trail for the las t 3 years in a row (including 2010 models). Now, how low do you go?
    I get regular pedal strikes on my Attack Trail. The handling is great, but, I've had a few close calls, and I level-up my pedals on descents unless I'm, funnilly enough, pedalling to get the gas on! I've had 1 strike with level pedals.

    Mountain bikes need to be able to clear rough ground, ruts, roots, stumps and rocks, they are not road bikes, a bit of clearance is essential.

    The sad thing is, even though the handling of these new lower bb designs is superb, it's only a matter of time before somebody comes a real cropper and gets the lawers in claiming design fault.
  • nicklouse wrote:

    which frame is it?

    as they are not all the same!

    It's the Expert - 150mm travel at the rear.
  • ajf_musicajf_music Posts: 6
    edited February 2010
    I had the same bike until last year and suffered exactly the same fate with pedals grounding. The only thing I could do was put more air in the DHX5.0 canister than Fox and Specialized advised. It also stopped the shock from bottoming out which I found happened a lot when ridden properly. I'm 5'11 weighing about 12st and still needed to put about 200psi in the shock.
    Yeti 575 carbon
    RMB Vertex RSL
    Bianchi Rita 29er SS
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    Moogface wrote:
    nicklouse wrote:

    which frame is it?

    as they are not all the same!

    It's the Expert - 150mm travel at the rear.

    and there is your problem.

    it needs the 150 on the front. as your BB height is now most likely less than the 130 base enduro.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Yes, i've looked at crown to axle dims, and see that most longer travel forks have a proportionally higher axle to crown height. Probably seems obvious (!) but before the revs I had been using maverick DUC32s which despite being 150mm travel, only have 517mm a-t-c. The revs are 507mm. Most other 150mm forks have about 550mm a-t-c, which is a very significant step.

    New forks it is, the search starts now!

    Thanks for the input everyone - once I've sourced some new forks I'll report back! 8)
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    but if you had looked at the write ups of the Ducs you would have seen comments along the lines of " an upside down 150mm travel fork with an AC height close to a 130mm normal fork"

    and then there were the problems with the DUC :wink:
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • my pitch has a mentally low BB height compared to my shore one.

    After being spat right into the bars a couple of times on a rocky descent you soon remember to ride narrow rocky sections with your pedals level!! :D

    I can almost crawl under the BB on my Shore One!
  • nicklouse wrote:
    but if you had looked at the write ups of the Ducs you would have seen comments along the lines of " an upside down 150mm travel fork with an AC height close to a 130mm normal fork"

    and then there were the problems with the DUC :wink:

    The DUCs were swapped from the Whytes 46. They get a bad wrap, but I loved em! Ok they dived like hell and flexed, but they took everytihng I threw at them and came back smiling - until the uppers bent and stayed bent... Shame. But yes, point taken, they are a case in point. Every other fork seems to have an a-t-c proportionate to travel.

    I think a large part of my probelm is that the Wyhtes made me lazy - it was so high I just pedalled over crests, over rocks, etc. I need to un-learn those bad habits! Higher forks will help also though, so the search is on.
  • P-JayP-Jay Posts: 1,478
    nicklouse wrote:
    Moogface wrote:
    Ok, seems the forks are the first thing to tackle... Anyone got any 150-160mm forks for under £200? 8)

    which frame is it?

    as they are not all the same!

    Do you know the differences by chance? I've been talking to my local spesh dealer about it.

    He said, and said he confirmed with spesh that the following all had the same frame:

    05-05 Endruo's
    05-08 SX trails.

    (S Works, may, or may not have thinner/stronger tube walls by the use of fancier alloy)

    The only difference is the front shock mount (which are noticeably smaller on SX's, massive on base Enduro's and somewhere in the middle on higher end enduro') and shock length. So if I get a mount from an SX trail and a cheap eBay SX Shock I could have an easily reversible 7” conversion, ideally with a spare set of 160mm forks to go with.
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 50,675 Lives Here
    edited November 2009
    listed above.

    and on Speshes webby. http://cdn.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf ... Enduro.pdf

    also what does he mean by frame? the front bit or the linkages or........... the whole thing. and with or without the shock.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • AlexAlex Posts: 2,086
    The lack of setup knowhow and misinformation in this thread is woeful.

    Spesh bikes have low BBs, even the hardtails. That's what makes them handle so nicely. The trade off for that is that you need to know how to ride your mountainbike over uneven surfaces and around corners. That means dropping the outside pedal around corners, levelling up over rough ground and timing your pedal-strokes. It's good form for smooth riding and your grip increases too.

    Bike wise, if you have one of these:
    2004_specialized_enduro_comp.jpg
    140 is your LIMIT. They were designed for 130.

    If you have one of these:
    2006_specialized_enduro_pro.jpg
    160 is your LIMIT. They were designed for 150

    Go beyond those limits and you enter a land of poor handling and headtube snappery, especially on the 03-05 version which is getting on a bit.

    Shock set up wise:
    If the suspension is diving around corners, increase your low speed compression damping (Propedal).

    If you are going through too much travel when you hit bumps, increase your high speed compression damping.

    If you are bottoming out, increase the bottom out resistance by adding some air pressure to the reservoir chamber. Go carefully as this also affects the low speed compression damping.

    Whatever you do though, don't prevent bottom outs by increasing the spring rate (Pressure in the main body of the shock). Your bike is designed around a certain amount of sag, and without it it will not be performing properly. Use the spring rate to set your sag to the proscribed amount.


    If your suspension
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    ive got 3 spesh mtb and have owned a further 2. all of them have/had low bb height but im used to the riding style. if you stick with it im sure the trade off will be worth it.
  • P-JayP-Jay Posts: 1,478
    edited November 2009
    nicklouse wrote:
    listed above.

    and on Speshes webby. http://cdn.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/pdf ... Enduro.pdf

    also what does he mean by frame? the front bit or the linkages or........... the whole thing. and with or without the shock.

    The whole thing.

    In his words, "they were all made, on the same line, exactly the same way" Then for an SX they'd paint them as such, fit a tiny little front shock mount which allowed for a longer shock and travel, and for the elite they'd fit a bigger triangle and shorter shock for 140mm.

    But I've been lied to / missinformed by him before...

    One thing that does add weight to his point. I cracked my lower swing-arm a few months back and had it replaced, they said they had ones from '08 SX's I could have now, or wait a couple of months for one in the right colour. So I had the SX one. Also with the shock removed, the rear will move further up and further down than it will with a shock in, so there's room for more travel.
    endruo5.jpg
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    "Shock set up wise:
    If the suspension is diving around corners, increase your low speed compression damping (Propedal).

    If you are going through too much travel when you hit bumps, increase your high speed compression damping.

    If you are bottoming out, increase the bottom out resistance by adding some air pressure to the reservoir chamber. Go carefully as this also affects the low speed compression damping.

    Whatever you do though, don't prevent bottom outs by increasing the spring rate (Pressure in the main body of the shock). Your bike is designed around a certain amount of sag, and without it it will not be performing properly. Use the spring rate to set your sag to the proscribed amount. "

    Not all shocks have all these features, especially high speed compression damping. Sag to an extent is personal preference, I doub't we all run exactly the same amount on Speshes. This goes for BB height too, many do find it a problem, while others like the handling traits.

    If you are bottoming out, and have no high speed compression damping or bottom out adjustment, you run less sag. Even Spesh themselves print a wide range of sag for the Enduro (18-33%).
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