why are there no black cyclists ?
northernneil
Posts: 1,549
I know theres that american who who rides/rode for rock, and the african who was did the tour of ireland but seriously, why in 2009, in a sport which just like athletics is all about physicality are there no black professional cyclists ?
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Am I right in saying that black people have different bone densities to white people? I think there are other differences too. That's why top swimmers are white.
Could be the same kind of thing here?0 -
Roscobob wrote:Am I right in saying that black people have different bone densities to white people? I think there are other differences too. That's why top swimmers are white.
Could be the same kind of thing here?
b0llux"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
hopefully it won't be too long.. a lot of black cyclists appearing on the road in my part of the world these days...
lot of bigotry in the bunch"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Roscobob wrote:Am I right in saying that black people have different bone densities to white people? I think there are other differences too. That's why top swimmers are white.
Could be the same kind of thing here?
No.
I don't think Kenyan and Ethiopian runners suffer from high skeletal weight ...0 -
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There have been a couple in the past but definately under represented. There was a black rider in the National Road Race this season from a UK pro team. Can't think of any reasons without resorting to cliches. It does seem strange when considering that athletics is dominated by black athletes in both sprints (mainly Afro-Carribean) and middle to long distances (mainly African). Athletic effort wise these should convert reasonably to track and road racing.
Then again the demographic of the pro peleton is changing. 20 years ago it was almost entirely continental Europeans, now there are a lot of riders from the English speaking countries, Scandinavians, those from former Eastern Bloc countries and some Japanese riders coming through. I suspect we'll see a Chinese pro team in the not too distant future.0 -
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/20 ... e.cycling1
On the track there is the Frenchman Gregory Bauge0 -
No black swimmers either0
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mididoctors wrote:Roscobob wrote:Am I right in saying that black people have different bone densities to white people? I think there are other differences too. That's why top swimmers are white.
Could be the same kind of thing here?
b0llux
Wow, how insightful. The swimming thing is not b0llocks, it's scientific fact.
However, it was just a suggestion about cycling.0 -
Thought we were all supsed to be equel0
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Has anyone suggested were not? Haven't seen anyone suggesting we have a quota system like SA sports teams used to. It's an interesting question when in a lot of sports the proportion of black athletes at the top level is generally high.0
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not too sure why some cultures / races / religions gravitate towards one sport over another.
There are a number of reasons some sports are under represented by some social-economic backgrounds, i.e. rowing, polo, and such like, in general sports that are perceived as upper class.
In addition, some sports have a high cost barrier to entry. So if you are a wee lad with no money, and no one in your family cycles, then it can be difficult to break into the sport.
Some here would argue that cycling is not such a high cost sport to begin with. But they elitism of carbon this, and titanium that... it all adds up.0 -
hotnajers wrote:No black swimmers either
Anthony Nesty - Gold 100 FLY 1988 Olympics
Anthony Ervin - Gold 50 FS 2000 Olympics
Definitely a sport where bone density causes issues, but it really is a culture thing IMHO.
Not quite sure Eric the Eel is a good example for a third though.0 -
Isn't this a very silly question?
There are a lot of these "why aren't there more X in the top levels of Y" where X can be race or gender or hair colour and Y can be any paid occupation, sport or otherwise.
The presumption is that group X is underrepresented, therefore Y is biased against them, but that's only true if the numbers of people applying are in proportion to the population.
For this specific question, if there are only a handful of black amateur cyclists at the levels the Pro teams sign riders from, then naturally, there will only be a very small number (indeed almost none) in the pro ranks.
Why aren't there more in the top amateur levels? Probably because there aren't too many in the lower amateur levels, etc etc.
Until you get to a point where the previous step has a large number of them, yet this step has very few, can you start to answer why that really is.
For most black cyclists I'd guess that barrier is at the "join a club" stage, and they probably don't join cycling clubs for all the same reasons other people don't join cycling clubs.0 -
humour?0
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I wouldn't say it is a silly question at all. It is quite an interesting one in my opinion.
I'd be interested to know if there are physical differences in people from different ethnic backgrounds that contribute to this.
There are no white sprinters winning regularly at the elite level
There are no black swimmers winning regularly at the elite level
There are a vastly greater number of black men competing at the highest level in Basketball, American Football.
There are virtually no black men competing at the highest level in ice hockey.
Football seems these days to be fairly race independant, though is underepresented in this country by british asians.
Some of this is due to cultural differences, some (swimming, sprinting) is due to proven physiological differences.
I for one am interested to know which it is in the case of cycling.
And posting pictures of cyclists covered in mud and the stereotyping post that followed with the pic of Linford is in extremely poor taste.Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur0 -
Stuey01 wrote:I wouldn't say it is a silly question at all. It is quite an interesting one in my opinion.
I'd be interested to know if there are physical differences in people from different ethnic backgrounds that contribute to this.
There are no white sprinters winning regularly at the elite level
There are no black swimmers winning regularly at the elite level
There are a vastly greater number of black men competing at the highest level in Basketball, American Football.
There are virtually no black men competing at the highest level in ice hockey.
Football seems these days to be fairly race independant, though is underepresented in this country by british asians.
Some of this is due to cultural differences, some (swimming, sprinting) is due to proven physiological differences.
I for one am interested to know which it is in the case of cycling.
And posting pictures of cyclists covered in mud and the stereotyping post that followed with the pic of Linford is in extremely poor taste.
agree on all parts - this is a forum for discussing just these ideas and thoughts. This morning I woke up and could not put my finger on issue issue so made a posting to spark debate. I didnt make a posting so you could post pictures which could actually offend someone0 -
humour. **sigh**
I am obvisuouly demonstrating the ridiculous nature of the question.
Clearly people who take up a given sport are influenced by social and envormental and econimic factors....
Why are there so many Swiss and Austrians skiing world champions? Maybe it has something to do with the massive mountains in their back yard.
Why are the Kenyans great atheltes? Well probably becasue their culture has been based for most part on travel by foot (lack of infrastructure in the country) and not on the western lazy b*stard method of getting a bus or a car.
Why is it that many people who play soccer come from econoimical poorer backgrounds (black, white, red yellow... whatever the skin colour)...becasue a football is cheap, you can kick it against a wall and you dont have to spend £500 on a carbon seat post.
Why are there not any Wayne Rooneys on the Olmympic rowing team? Becasue lashing up an down canals in long wooden boats was not the done thing in Liverpool for people from his area. Would he be any good, dont know, maybe he is a bit short, but he could be a great rower...
Why are so many europeans profoessiual cyclists....because kids are exposed to it from a young age.
So all in all, colour is irrevelant....
Lighten up.0 -
intothe12 wrote:
So all in all, colour is irrevelant....
Except that it isn't. At the elite level in sport fractions make all the difference and there ARE physiological differences between people of different ethnic backgrounds. Sprinting and swimming being the obvious examples of where this does make a difference at the top level.
It wasn't a ridiculous question and your pictures weren't funny, ok the lunchbox was maybe a little funny, but the muddy cyclist was in extremely poor taste.Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur0 -
+1
Of course there are physiological differences (in the same way that some races tend to be taller for instance) between races and that will obviously be a factor in the race profile for different sports. Another one being cultural. The extent to which these factors affect things is more the question.0 -
colour is irrelevant, but what is relevant is the make up of fast twitch / slow twitch fibers within the person.
now, if the question is why do certain races / colours seem to have a higher abundance of fast twitch or slow twitch fibers making them either very good or bad at certain disciplines? Then ok, that is an interesting topic.
However specific training or exposure to envoiromental factors can influence or in fact change the ratio of fast / slow twitch fibers mkaing a person better or worse at an event.
Now “natural talent” is probably the biggest influnece, i.e you cant turn a donkey into a race horse (mr ferrari may beg to differ). But clearly the honing of the talent, is a very signifcant factor and this training of a talent (regardless of race / colour) is proabbly strongly influenced by economic and sociallfactors.
(sorry my spelling is shocking - clearly my white trash up bringing)0 -
Dave Clarke is as fast as fck:
An increasing number of black and asian riders in UK cycling events too.
A similar question might be: why are the best cyclists generally from Europe? Why do US and UK riders go to Belgium of all places to train? Are Belgians genetically better cyclists than anyone else? And so on.0 -
intothe12 wrote:colour is irrelevant, but what is relevant is the make up of fast twitch / slow twitch fibers within the person.
now, if the question is why do certain races / colours seem to have a higher abundance of fast twitch or slow twitch fibers making them either very good or bad at certain disciplines? Then ok, that is an interesting topic.
However specific training or exposure to envoiromental factors can influence or in fact change the ratio of fast / slow twitch fibers mkaing a person better or worse at an event.
Now “natural talent” is probably the biggest influnece, i.e you cant turn a donkey into a race horse (mr ferrari may beg to differ). But clearly the honing of the talent, is a very signifcant factor and this training of a talent (regardless of race / colour) is proabbly strongly influenced by economic and sociallfactors.
(sorry my spelling is shocking - clearly my white trash up bringing)
1. I think your first two paragraphs contradict each other.
2. You cannot significantly change the amount of type 1 and type 2 fibres - the latter are subdivided into 2a and 2b, and there is some scope for change here. Otherwise your makeup is genetically pre-determined.
3. Agree with your last paragraph - one about natural talent and not the white trash thing
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There is more to it than muscle fibre types. There is skeletal structure for one.
The predisposition to exhibit certain physiological characteristics is related to ethnic background, race (or colour, as you used the terms interchangeably) is relevant to this. Directly relevant to this.Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur0 -
maybe I am completely ignorant of some basic information here, but I am not aware of any significant difference between the skeletal structure of certain races. Now of course some people have different skeletal structures, my brother for example would claim to be heavy boned, I would argue he eats too much, how in ever bone density can differ among people of the same race, but I think it would be difficult to argue that in general a certain race has X% more density than any other race.
Of course a race of people that live at say altitude can have different physical (skeletal and musculature) characteristics as a result of the influence of their environment over several generations. But if we go back to the original question, of “why are there no black cyclists?” and compare say people of different cultures / races / colours / whatever.. all born in the UK and all UK nationals, then I think the main influence is economic and social external influences rather than some physical inhibition.0 -
Access cost definately plays a part, but that affects all races. A carbon bike costs alot more than a pair of football boots.
Also if you look at the salaries that a pro cyclist and a footballer earn its not hard to see why the motivation to choose a sport where you dont have to be at the best team in the league to make serious amounts of cash is chosen over a sport where there is only a handful of pro riders who can match the salaries of most premiership players.
Also how kids are recruited into sports like Athletics and Football is extremely different to the recruitment policys of getting into pro cycling.
When i was younger it was not unusual to see football scouts turn up at school football training sessions assesing potential targets to sign and athletics for me was something which i grew up with from the age of 8 as it was part a compulsory unit of my schools curriculum, Cycling has not estabilished a similar type of system as of yet.
Im sure in the future this will change with cycling getting more attention in the media instead of being a niche product that can sometimes been seen as an elitest sport for whites only. I had the same discussion with friend who kayaked to a national standard and only knew of one black kayaker in the whole sport at the time. Its not a cycling specific issue many other sports have the same shortfall.
Il be keeping an eye of how the national high school cycling series does in the USA with unearthing talent that has been missed in the past. It will be interesting to see if the UK follows suit.0
