To Flash or Not to Flash

iPad

I'm talking lights here, not long coats in parks (well not since my court case anyway).

Now that the clock have gone back and the winter nights are drawing in, I'm now facing my first cycling in the dark for decades, and I'm wondering what I should be doing with my lights, flashing or not flashing.

I understand that flashing lights would be easier to see, but no flashing lights would make it easier for a car to judge my speed and distance (not that they take any notice), or as I have two sets of lights, should I do both?

I was wondering what other people's thoughts on this subject are?

And please be gentle with me, this is my first time.

Slow Downcp

I have two rear lights, both flashing, and a non flashing front lamp that is good for both seeing with and being seen. Currently on the lookout though for a backup front light that I can have flashing in addition to the constant light.

I just think flashing lights stand out more against all the other various lights (both car and streetlights)

Kieran_Burns

Two sets front and rear - one flash one non flash.

You could also consider the Cateye LD1100 for the rear, which has two banks of independently operated LEDs. Set one to flash and one to steady.

I have a LD1100 and a LD610 - the 1100 is set to flash on both banks and they don't sync. It's very eye-catching.

R_T_A

Hi & Welcome,

Completely depends on what you're trying to do. If you're in town and want to be seen, use the flashing mode. When I'm on the country lanes I need to see, so I've got it on full.

I've got two rear lights (one flashing on rucksack; solid fibre flare on seat post).

TBH you'll need reflective Hi-Viz on as well, so go and get some if you haven't already. You may feel like an idiot, but I'd far prefer a driver to see me and think I look silly than be hit.

A lot of good cyclists on this forum have been hit recently, so take care

asprilla

I set myself up for winter last night:

Reflective tape on the back of my helmet & shoes
Two rear lights, one solid and one flashing
Four front lights, one solid, one flashing and a couple of blinding chinese LEDs for the Richmond park section.
Hump
Reflective tights
Reflective gillet
Reflective tape on my gloves.

iPad

R_T_A wrote:

TBH you'll need reflective Hi-Viz on as well, so go and get some if you haven't already. You may feel like an idiot, but I'd far prefer a driver to see me and think I look silly than be hit.

A lot of good cyclists on this forum have been hit recently, so take care

I bought a Hi-Viz jacket last week, I was looking for a black one, but then I was struck by an uncharacteristic bout of common sense and went for a day-glo yellow one, thinking that I'm going to look like a fat bloke puffing and panting my way up the hills around here whatever I'm wearing, so I may as well be safe..!

UndercoverElephant

I'm a dedicated flasher myself. Both rear lights flash, and my DX torch has what they call a "fast strobe" mode which flashes at 3 or 4 Hz, about 70% on 30% off. It's amazing, even at 30 mph there's enough light to see VERY well, plus it's always fun seeing pedestrians shielding their eyes!

PBo

iPad wrote:

R_T_A wrote:

TBH you'll need reflective Hi-Viz on as well, so go and get some if you haven't already. You may feel like an idiot, but I'd far prefer a driver to see me and think I look silly than be hit.

A lot of good cyclists on this forum have been hit recently, so take care

I bought a Hi-Viz jacket last week, I was looking for a black one, but then I was struck by an uncharacteristic bout of common sense and went for a day-glo yellow one, thinking that I'm going to look like a fat bloke puffing and panting my way up the hills around here whatever I'm wearing, so I may as well be safe..!

aaawww mate, tell me about it!!!

I noticed the national hill climb championships were held in stockbridge yesterday - you should see the profile of the hill!!!

iPad

PBo wrote:

iPad wrote:

R_T_A wrote:

TBH you'll need reflective Hi-Viz on as well, so go and get some if you haven't already. You may feel like an idiot, but I'd far prefer a driver to see me and think I look silly than be hit.

A lot of good cyclists on this forum have been hit recently, so take care

I bought a Hi-Viz jacket last week, I was looking for a black one, but then I was struck by an uncharacteristic bout of common sense and went for a day-glo yellow one, thinking that I'm going to look like a fat bloke puffing and panting my way up the hills around here whatever I'm wearing, so I may as well be safe..!

aaawww mate, tell me about it!!!

I noticed the national hill climb championships were held in stockbridge yesterday - you should see the profile of the hill!!!

What I can understand is how my journey to work is mostly up hill and my journey from work is mostly up hill too...!

How is that possible..!

highwaymunky

I go for two at the back flashing one attached to the seat post and the other zip tied to the back of my helmet.

Two on the front, one flashing and one solid (when its really dark) & just one flashing all other times.

You can't miss all those blinkies.

But I am looking at portable xmas lights for christmas commutes.

BentMikey

You say they can't miss all those blinkies, but drivers often do. Have bright lights, but don't expect drivers to see, or if they do see, to care.

shouldbeinbed

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Two sets front and rear - one flash one non flash.

.

+1

rich_e

Same here.
I have one on my bars to light up the ground in front of me, and another on my helmet set to flash.

You do get the odd ocassion where pedestrians will make a joke about it being like a rave or something, and I had one woman shout out of her car coming the other way once who called me an idiot.... for having a flashing light :?

It may seem like overkill, but it never is, because there are still people who fail to see you.

Limburger

Don't know if you all know this but the human eye/brain combo cannot judge distance and speed when you have a flashing light only. I'm sure there's a law against having flashing lights on but it's never enforced.

Of course this doesn't matter if your riding along lit roads where your bike and you can also be seen, but in true darkness (Country lane e.g.) only the light can be seen. If its flashing the distance speed and trajectory cannot be calculate because the human doesn't have enough information to calculate these things.

So your more likely to get knocked off.

Personally I find flashing lights on bikes annoying as hell. No other vehicle has them so why should bikes.

singlespeedexplosif

Constant. Flashing is only good for extending battery life.

BentMikey

@Limburger, best you do some research, because you're mistaken on that law.

Limburger

Its been a while since I lived in the UK but I do have vague recollections of being collared by the rozzers when I lived in York for some late night rave riding. I say vague because I was thoroughly incapacitated, probably by triples-for-singles from the 'nags head', but I do recall those fine upholders of the law commenting that I rode extremely well for a man who could barely speak but that the flashing lights were a distraction to other road users.

I shall however do some reading up on it.

It still stands that flashing lights are a) Shite and b) for chavs/numpties.

UndercoverElephant

Limburger wrote:

I do recall those fine upholders of the law commenting that I rode extremely well for a man who could barely speak

Just as well you had the bike, you could never have walked home!

Flashing front lights have been legal since 2005 for bikes, as long as they aren't completely weak. They attract other road users attention better than constant, thus are better around town. On unlit roads, you'd usually be better with constant, I admit, but my torch's fast strobe mode is more than capable at any speed I can muster.

Also, for those with two front lights, ever considered that you look like a car that's REALLY far away?

mapleflot

I have both 1 flash and 1 steady light, front and rear.
Plus yellow reflective tape on fenders etc.
I am about to experiment with blue reflective tape as well. I was thinking of trying this on the front/back of crank arms but this may fall foul of vehicle regulations. I am not aware of any clothing regulations though, as long as I don't get close to actually impersonating police etc.!

Mikelyons

Limburger wrote:

I'm sure there's a law against having flashing lights on but it's never enforced.

You may have been right until a few years ago, but current UK regulations do allow this.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr ... /DG_069837
60
"At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen. Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp.

[Law RVLR regs 13, 18 & 24)]"

Mike

Limburger

Thank you @UndercoverElephant.

I have shown myself to be old, out of date, ill informed and a heinous criminal in just a few short minutes.

I said it had been a while. I have just read the amended act and it seems your flashing light must be 4 candelas or less in luminance and have a BS Kite mark thingummybob on it.

I think I am going to have to upgrade the visibility of my commuter as I have a reflector and two cheep constant lights on it. The rest is in various shade of black and rust coupled with my ninja style could get me flattened. Then again we have glorious separate cycle paths and drivers who consider themselves second-class citizens to the knightly cyclist.

UndercoverElephant

Limburger wrote:

said it had been a while. I have just read the amended act and it seems your flashing light must be 4 candelas or less in luminance and have a BS Kite mark thingummybob on it.

At least 4 candelas, rather than 4 candelas or less. The brighter the better, I'd say. My torch flashes at 200 lumens/candellas

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4071

asprilla

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Limburger wrote:

Also, for those with two front lights, ever considered that you look like a car that's REALLY far away?

Yes, especially since I've complained about motorbikes on the motorway for the same reason; I thought it was a car a few hundred metres back, not a motorbike just behind me.


However, I can't get a single lights that's good enough for what I want, hence one flashing and one constant.

Specialized Needs

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Limburger wrote:

said it had been a while. I have just read the amended act and it seems your flashing light must be 4 candelas or less in luminance and have a BS Kite mark thingummybob on it.

At least 4 candelas, rather than 4 candelas or less. The brighter the better, I'd say. My torch flashes at 200 lumens/candellas

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4071

Surely this is only if these lights are the only 'approved' lights you are using? If secondary lights, then I think any restriction would be a lot more relaxed.

I seem to recall that the regulations are less strict on the light if it has no 'steady' mode, and also that any 'equivalent' European standard is acceptable, too. Done from memory, so I may be wrong.

Edit: typo

d21dga

In my opinion a decent flashing light like some of the Smart ones are much more noticeable than some constant beam ones. If you can't see a Smart superflash rear light you're blind!

singlespeedexplosif

In my opinion a decent flashing light like some of the Smart ones are much more noticeable than some constant beam ones.

that's not particularly scientific now is it?
'something quite good is better than some things which are quite poor'

shouldbeinbed

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Limburger wrote:

Also, for those with two front lights, ever considered that you look like a car that's REALLY far away?

depends where they are placed. I'd look like a car lying on it's side with one headlamp only intermittently working.

People with only one light, have you considered that you look like a motorbike that's really far away?

we're never going to be perfect so we have to do the best we can.

It's been mentioned elsewhere: pedal reflectors are the one thing that really make a bike stand out as such. decent clean ones front and back are a very good idea as a clue along with the rest of the lights.

northstar

People with only one light, have you considered that you look like a motorbike that's really far away?

Well as you get nearer people would hear you're not a motorbike.

UndercoverElephant

And people with a single, flashing light look like a bike. No bad thing, really.

sarajoy

When I drive I notice flashing more easily, and I tend to associate it with bikes.

BUT there's that funny phenomenon where the brain sort of slots in an extra bit of reality - have you ever had that thing when you look at a clock with a second-hand, and the first second seems to be much longer than the following ones?

It's the brain literally giving you some hindsight - we never get the disorienting (unless drunk) view of blurry rooms and environments as we move our eyes about - because a little bit of the blur somehow gets given the new image instead. Anyway - suddenly I see how someone in a car could glance about, see no flashing at all because their glance coincided with an 'off' instead of an 'on' and the brain tricked them into thinking they'd looked for long enough. Bang, bike, blood.

So, I'm going to pick up some cheapo tesco somethingorother to use as either my steady or flashing beam alongside my current light... Already have two rear lights, one flash one steady/ripple

d21dga

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

In my opinion a decent flashing light like some of the Smart ones are much more noticeable than some constant beam ones.

that's not particularly scientific now is it?
'something quite good is better than some things which are quite poor'

I didn't claim it was scientific though did I, hence the 'in my opinion' bit.
A lot of the bikes I've seen out have a pathetically weak constant light on the back, probably a cheap argos one or something. My point was that one of the bright Smart flashing ones is many times more noticeable even though it is flashing not constant and you'd be better off with one of these