Wheel Truing Stand Options?

luketorroni

Hi everybody...

I'm looking to buy a new wheel truing stand for BUILDING and truing wheels. Just wanted to get your views and opinions on some of the models currently avaiable...

I know the Park TS-2 is quoted as the 'industry standard' but I really think £300 is excessive! Any other options I should consider?

1) Feedback Sports
http://www.feedbacksports.com/products/truing_station.aspx

2) Park TS-2
http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=0&item=TS-2.2

3) Webbline Wheel Jig
http://www.webbline.co.uk/default.asp?pID=11

4) Minoura Pro True
http://www.minourausa.com/english/tool-e/truepro-combo2-e.html

Nuggs

I have the Minoura stand, which is okay but only okay. It's not a precision piece of kit in the same way the TS2. The final bit of the truing process is made difficult by the unwieldy lateral 'feelers'.

For my next set of wheels, I'm going for the TS-2 as I genuinely think it will make it easier to build a better set of wheels.

Another alternative (far cheaper than the TS-2) you should consider is the Tacx jig, which always seems to come highly recommened.

dennisn

Go for the Park IF you can afford it. You won't be disappointed. Especially if you plan
on building more than a few wheels. I have a really nice one by Pedro's, but I don't think
they make them anymore. At least not here in the States. FWIW there are others out there
at an even higher price than Parks TS-2. I would recommend the Pedro's IF you can find one. It's a great home shop stand. Otherwise the TS-2.

Jamey

I've got a jig that's branded as "M-wave" and looks very similar to the Minoura one but with different feelers (though not much better by the sound of it) and it's pretty decent. Cost me about £40 and I've built a couple of wheels with it.

luketorroni

The Tacx stand looks really flimsy to me so didn't even consider that one. I really wanted to avoid the TS-2 if possible.

Any opinions of the Webbline Jig? Alf at Webbline Tools says that self-dishing' wheel jigs like the TS-2, can lead the builder into building slack wheels.

Does anyone have the latest version of the Minoura stand, looks like they have updated it recently?

Harry182

We had the Park truing stand in the shop I worked at 20-odd years ago. Top stand - made truing and wheel building easy... and even zen-like -- I remember listening for the wobbles and dips in rims that were within a mm of true and tweaking them until they were very nearly perfect. Definitely worth the money if you can afford it (and will use it enough.) It's also worth noting that if you don't buy the separate base unit, you'll need to screw the stand to your workbench or fix it in a vice.

I now have the Feedback truing stand at home. Was fairly cheap, stores small and gets the job done. But it's a bit of a pain the a$$ to use as you can only true one side at a time.

If I had to do it again, I'd probably go for the Minoura as it seems a acceptable compromise between the functionality of the Park and the cost + compactness of the Feebback.

(However, having said all that -- If I had the space, I'd go for the Webbline.)

luketorroni

Harry...

What do you think about the Webbline... it looks basic but totally bomb-proof.

I have no idea how exactly it works and Alf doesn't give much away in his emails. The pointers don't move simultaneously and I don't know how you can centre them to the hub or if that's even important?

Having not built a wheel before I'm not exactly sure what makes a great stand. I do intend to take it seriously though once I pick up some experience, hence I want to avoid the cheap stands... without being ripped off by Park. (I already let Assos empty my wallet for their clothes!)

dennisn

luketorroni wrote:

The Tacx stand looks really flimsy to me so didn't even consider that one. I really wanted to avoid the TS-2 if possible.

Any opinions of the Webbline Jig? Alf at Webbline Tools says that self-dishing' wheel jigs like the TS-2, can lead the builder into building slack wheels.

The Webbline tool looks to be perfectly serviceable for home use. As for self-dishing jigs
they are useful for a quick check of wheel dish but I would always use a GOOD quality
dishing tool to be sure. Key word GOOD(stiff, no flex). In that respect the Webbline dishing tool also looks pretty good. Park, on the other hand , makes a dishing tool that
you don't need to remove the tire to use. I have one. Works great.

dennisn

Chain Reaction Cycles sells a CYCLO truing stand that looks much like a TS-2 for about
80 less than the Park.

crankycrank

I have the Minura stand as well and it's good for occasional use. I've built a few wheels with it, it's fairly easy to use and make accurate adjustments with but not the most robust piece of equipment compared with the Park stand. The Webline Wheel Jig looks very sturdy and the price is good but the truing claws look a little clumsy with the wing nut and bolt fasteners possibly needing to be loosened and tightened with every adjustment. Interestingly I've seen some shops and race teams that just have a crude, homemade single arm device with a bolt and threaded nut welded on for the adjustment gauge with the wheel held in place by the quick release. I'd go mad trying to get the dishing right with a one arm setup but I guess with some experience it wouldn't be a problem.

luketorroni

I had similar thoughts re truing callipers and wing bolt. I'm not sure how you would centre the hub between the callipers either?

Cyclo one looks solid enough but they don't appear to be in stock!

dennisn

crankycrank wrote:

I have the Minura stand as well and it's good for occasional use. I've built a few wheels with it, it's fairly easy to use and make accurate adjustments with but not the most robust piece of equipment compared with the Park stand. The Webline Wheel Jig looks very sturdy and the price is good but the truing claws look a little clumsy with the wing nut and bolt fasteners possibly needing to be loosened and tightened with every adjustment. Interestingly I've seen some shops and race teams that just have a crude, homemade single arm device with a bolt and threaded nut welded on for the adjustment gauge with the wheel held in place by the quick release. I'd go mad trying to get the dishing right with a one arm setup but I guess with some experience it wouldn't be a problem.

I had a Minoura some time ago. Worked OK, but like you said "not the most robust piece...".
A good solid stand is very nice to use. Well worth the money, if you can afford it, and plan on building more than a few sets of wheels. Just makes life that much easier.

Monty Dog

Regardless of what people say, quality of wheelbuild is down to the skill of the builder - not the quality of the stand - plenty of people build crap wheels on the best stands. The Park is over- priced for what it is - a decent fab-shop would knock you up something similar for half the cost. Save money on the stand and buy a spoke tension meter as well

dennisn

Monty Dog wrote:

Regardless of what people say, quality of wheelbuild is down to the skill of the builder - not the quality of the stand - plenty of people build crap wheels on the best stands. The Park is over- priced for what it is - a decent fab-shop would knock you up something similar for half the cost. Save money on the stand and buy a spoke tension meter as well

+1 on the tension meter. Really a big help in checking your work.

JonEdwards

Build your own - not difficult to do.

The Roger Musson/Wheelpro book has a "how to build your own" section - I made something similar and have knocked up 10 or more wheels on it with no issues.

Tension meter is well worth it though - I've got the Park one.

luketorroni

Monty Dog wrote:

Regardless of what people say, quality of wheelbuild is down to the skill of the builder - not the quality of the stand - plenty of people build crap wheels on the best stands. The Park is over- priced for what it is - a decent fab-shop would knock you up something similar for half the cost. Save money on the stand and buy a spoke tension meter as well

From what you say Monty... it would make the Webbline jig look more appealing. Alf said exactly the same, that it's the builder, not the stand that makes good wheels. I agree this is true but good tools always help make the job slightly easier!

I've seen a few recommendations for Roger's book so might take a look at too!

geoff_ss

I built a lot of wheels just using the bike frame and a local shop (a few years ago) just used an old pair of forks. I bought a wheel building jig which is very crude so long ago I can't recall its source and it works fine. I always get the dish right by finishing off in the bike frame in any case.

As Monty says, it's not the jig, it's the builder that counts. I've never owned a spoke tension meter but that would certainly be the most worthwhile purchase IMO. All a jig does is provide a means of spinning the wheel. I only build wheels for myself and my wife but I suppose I might invest in something a little more robust if I were doing it for a living.

Geoff

sicknote

Had a look at a few on line self build ones and think I will build my own, plus should have all I need in the workshop ( Cabinet maker for a living )

Tail end Charlie

I can second building your own. I made one pretty much exactly as in Roger Musson's Wheelpro book and it's great. Cost? Less than a tenner, the only thing I bought was some thick metal for the axle support. For the rest of stuff I used bits of MDF kicking around my garage.

Jamey

Another recommendation for the Park Tool spoke tension meter (TM-1). It's a brilliant little bit of kit and the price makes it perfect to ask for as a Christmas or birthday present

Lots of people seem to be talking about using the jig for dishing but I always use a proper dishing gauge. Think it'd drive me nuts trying to get the dish right with a jig.

Also, and this is probably the most important piece of advice I can give you (IMO)... Read Roger Musson's e-book (PDF file) BEFORE you buy anything or make any decisions. It takes about two or three hours to go through the whole thing cover-to-cover and from a wheelbuilding perspective it's the best few hours you'll ever spend in your entire life. It's the best "how-to" text ever written on wheelbuilding bar none.

It's available from here:
http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php

It costs £9 but don't be put off, just buy it, trust me on this. A lot of people might mention Jobst Brandt's book (entitled "The Bicycle Wheel") but that's more of a scientific look at bike wheels, whereas Roger Musson's e-book is a practical, step-by-step guide to building the strongest wheel possible.

Just buy it and read it before doing anything else, I implore you.

luketorroni

I think I will definitely read Roger's book before making a final decision. I could certainly make something myself, it's just a shame there isn't greater choice in the truing stand market!

dennisn

luketorroni wrote:

....... it's just a shame there isn't greater choice in the truing stand market!

I think you may find that once you've used a really good, sturdy, truing stand that all the other(flimsy) ones just don't compare. Even if you don't build a whole lot of wheels.
Hence the really cheap, flimsy, ones and Park and the other(very few) high end ones.
FWIW Park TS-2 will give you excellent service for many years to come and there is
something to be said for that.

dodgy

I've got the minoura stand, very happy with it. One tip if you already have this is to loosen off slightly the bolts that secure the little silver feelers on the guage and apply a little lubricant. When you've done that you will find the feelers are much more accurate and will close on the rim better and much more smoothly on the spring assist.

Jamey

dennisn wrote:

Park TS-2 will give you excellent service for many years to come and there is something to be said for that.

I suspect it might hold it's value better too, if you ever wanted to sell it years later. A bit like quality camera lenses do.

Nuggs

Jamey wrote:

Read Roger Musson's e-book

I'd be interested to hear how people have this and Schraner's book think the two compare.

I've always built the 'Schraner way' with no issues (other than my general ham-fistedness meaning it can take me days to build a wheelset) but would be keen to look at other methods if people think they're better.

2Phat4Rapha

Been investigating all this stuff myself. When I can afford it I'll get the best I can. It'll probably be the Park Tools but I notice on their site that it's being updated and it doesn't look the the new one's out yet. The DT Swiss one looks terrific but it's got one hell of a price tag.

The Hozan looks strong but odd. (Yeah I know). Most of them look far too flimsy. The Webline one looks sturdy but I'd be wary of those two great arms getting smacked out of true sometime (like when it's being delivered to you!)

Google 'em if you like but supply seems like rocking horse dodo.

DT Swiss Truing Stand €538 !
Hozan £204.51
Park Tools Pro £260
Park Tool Bike Stand Truing Attachment
Ulimate Truing Stand by Feedback Sports £76.45
Cyclus £325
M Wave £49.99
Minora £85
MINOURA WORKMAN JUNIOR £39.99
MINOURA Straightening KIT INCLUDING WORKMAN PRO £74.99
IceToolz Pro Shop truing stand £80
WEBBLINE Wheel Truing Stand
Folding Bicycle Wheel Truing Stand Bike Repair Tool
http://www.gbcycles.co.uk/eshop.asp?wci ... SMINT81701 £40


Plus you'll need ...

Good Dishing tool

Good spoke wrench
http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=T0148

Good nipple driver!
http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Proline ... auber.aspx £29

Jamey

The nipple driver was the thing I objected to paying for most, I think. But I'm glad I've got it now.

luketorroni

I never thought of the DT Swiss... makes the Park TS-2 look cheap! Where did you get your price for this one?

It seems everything always comes back to the Park TS-2 anything cheaper just seems to be flimsy and questionable quality!

dennisn

luketorroni wrote:

I never thought of the DT Swiss... makes the Park TS-2 look cheap! Where did you get your price for this one?

It seems everything always comes back to the Park TS-2 anything cheaper just seems to be flimsy and questionable quality!

I guess that's why you see them in just about every bike shop on earth.

2Phat4Rapha

luketorroni wrote:

I never thought of the DT Swiss... makes the Park TS-2 look cheap! Where did you get your price for this one?

It seems everything always comes back to the Park TS-2 anything cheaper just seems to be flimsy and questionable quality!

http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Proline ... stand.aspx

Couldn't find a UK price.

Gotta have faith in your tools. Same kind of feeling as when you're enjoying and being proud of your bike. No resale value in the cheap stuff.

BTW. Forgot to mention safety goggles. Apparently spokes can break and fly out. You don't want your face nearby when that happens but if it does you need to protect your eyes.

2Phat4Rapha

I'm also working on a database of hubs, rims, and spokes. Have the spoke length calculator working fine thanks to Robert's formula and his rapid response to my question. The research on the product specs is horrendous though. Seems like everyone has a different name for the dimensions. Some provide plenty of info, other barely anything at all.

Anyone any opinions on say the top ten hubs, rims and spoke manufacturers?