protein

jimycooper

a very good local rider who gives me lots of advice, has suggested taking protein drinks after rides:
- to help recovery
- to help build up that extra bit of muscle mass to be stronger in my races

its not that i dont beleive him, but what are peoples opinions on this?

sampras38

jimycooper wrote:

a very good local rider who gives me lots of advice, has suggested taking protein drinks after rides:
- to help recovery
- to help build up that extra bit of muscle mass to be stronger in my races

its not that i dont beleive him, but what are peoples opinions on this?

That's like saying, I've about this thing called water, is it any good?

Is this post for real?

:roll:

jimycooper

well i thought only track sprinters and the like used the stuff.

give us a break mate... :roll:

Edwin

My opinion is you should use the search feature on the forum, because this comes up practically every week. Also, your local rider isn't really good because he necks a special drink after he rides, it may well help a bit, but there's other reasons he's a good rider.
FWIW I go through loads of cheap unflavoured whey protein (which I buy in bulk from a certain site that someone else will mention in a minute), and I'm still decidedly average at best.

jimycooper

i dont think i linked him "necking" protein to being a good rider at all.

so to be honest, so far, no one has really said anything helpful, just had a bit of a go at me... great, cheers

shockedsoshocked

If you train every day, then yes, I'd say it will be of benefit to you.

BeaconRuth

Sampras38 - the laugh's on you because water is definitely essential to sustain life but taking protein shakes is completely unnecessary for many of us.

Jimycooper - you're wise to question the advice you get, whoever gives it to you. I suggest you try to work out whether your diet is short of protein or not. If it isn't then taking a protein shake would be a waste of money.

A good rule of thumb for most endurance cyclists is to aim for 1.5g of protein per day per kg of body weight. If you look at the food packets for everything you eat for a few days and do a few sums you should be able to work out whether you're usually getting about that much protein. Most endurance cyclists (as opposed to track sprinters) who eat a healthy, balanced diet won't need to eat any extra protein. Maybe the guy who gave you the advice does need it, but you might not - the answer won't be the same for everyone.

Ruth

jimycooper

ok ok, intresting
thanks ruth

Edwin

Well, the only benefit with protein drinks is the convenience really. I find it hard to eat real food straight after a race sometimes, so I always take a milkshake with a banana and whey powder blended in. You probably won't get a big advantage unless you were deficient in protein to start with, but having a supplement makes it easier to ensure you are geting enough I suppose.
1.2 - 1.4 grams a day per kilo body weight is the normal recommendation. Does that help?

jimycooper

yes, thank you

GavH

I take a protein shake straight after hard sessions most of the time. I do not feel it makes me any fitter but I do tend to suffer less from aches and pains the next day when I do take it. As Ruth already alludes, if you are already getting enough protein in your diet anyway, then you will literally p155 the extra from the shake straight back out again however there seems to be something to say for 're-charging' the muscles in the immediate aftermath of hard work, ie withing 15 mins of finishing.

mrushton

Recovery drinks are excellent if you require them ie you are in a training/competition regime but if you are just going out on a Sunday ride you are probably better having more protein in your diet (subject to how much you have already).

ride_whenever

TBH I don't find them necessary unless you're training seriously for competition. Even then only after particularly strenuous sessions or if you have a very high training load (twice a day 6 days a week) or for the psychological benefits

I'd say that they can let you train a little harder before overtraining, but if you're inside that limit then the benefits are tenuous at best over hydration.

arnie-77

I have been using protein shakes as an aid to my weight loss, helps me eat smaller meals more often with less unhealthy snacking inbetween.

squired

As others have mentioned here, one important thing to remember is that protein is either absorbed into the body or leaves when you empty your bladder. In comparison carbohydrates all stay in your system, even if it requires conversion to fat. Thus there is no point in overdoing the protein intake at any one moment in time, but after exercise and over the course of the day an intake of protein will help your body both recover and develop. Don't forget though that building muscle also requires energy, which is why a lot of the expensive weight/muscle gain supplements are about 70% carbs and 30% protein.

sampras38

BeaconRuth wrote:

Sampras38 - the laugh's on you because water is definitely essential to sustain life but taking protein shakes is completely unnecessary for many of us.

Jimycooper - you're wise to question the advice you get, whoever gives it to you. I suggest you try to work out whether your diet is short of protein or not. If it isn't then taking a protein shake would be a waste of money.

A good rule of thumb for most endurance cyclists is to aim for 1.5g of protein per day per kg of body weight. If you look at the food packets for everything you eat for a few days and do a few sums you should be able to work out whether you're usually getting about that much protein. Most endurance cyclists (as opposed to track sprinters) who eat a healthy, balanced diet won't need to eat any extra protein. Maybe the guy who gave you the advice does need it, but you might not - the answer won't be the same for everyone.

Ruth

Oh come on ruth, a simple search of protein on the forum or even the web in general would give him all the info he needs. It just seemed like a funny thing to post.

ut_och_cykla

He can post what he likes.
I generally agree with Ruth's comments.
Typically endurance sports require less protein than people doing weight training but more than sedentary people, especially when starting a new programme of heavy loading - in the gym or on the bike.
Protein is important for muscle building but also for enzymes and hormones and the immune system.
Protein requirements are easy to meet with normal food - a bit more lean meat or fish , low fat dairy etc. If your watching what you eat it can be difficult to get protein requirements without exceeding calorie requirements (meat & fish rend to be associated with fat)
My tip would be to check what you eat now (like Ruth says) and adjust accordingly using primarily 'real' food. And don't forget your fruit,veg and other 'healthy' foods
Anecdotally I find I suffer from less muscle discomfort when using a protein drink after a hard session, something that others have also reported.

sampras38

ut_och_cykla wrote:

He can post what he likes.
I generally agree with Ruth's comments.
Typically endurance sports require less protein than people doing weight training but more than sedentary people, especially when starting a new programme of heavy loading - in the gym or on the bike.
Protein is important for muscle building but also for enzymes and hormones and the immune system.
Protein requirements are easy to meet with normal food - a bit more lean meat or fish , low fat dairy etc. If your watching what you eat it can be difficult to get protein requirements without exceeding calorie requirements (meat & fish rend to be associated with fat)
My tip would be to check what you eat now (like Ruth says) and adjust accordingly using primarily 'real' food. And don't forget your fruit,veg and other 'healthy' foods
Anecdotally I find I suffer from less muscle discomfort when using a protein drink after a hard session, something that others have also reported.

OK, my apologies..;-)

Perhaps my bodybuilding background made the original question seem a little obvious.
Didn't mean to offend.

alp777

Sampras38 - the laugh's on you because water is definitely essential to sustain life but taking protein shakes is completely unnecessary for many of us.

Jimycooper - you're wise to question the advice you get, whoever gives it to you. I suggest you try to work out whether your diet is short of protein or not. If it isn't then taking a protein shake would be a waste of money.

A good rule of thumb for most endurance cyclists is to aim for 1.5g of protein per day per kg of body weight. If you look at the food packets for everything you eat for a few days and do a few sums you should be able to work out whether you're usually getting about that much protein. Most endurance cyclists (as opposed to track sprinters) who eat a healthy, balanced diet won't need to eat any extra protein. Maybe the guy who gave you the advice does need it, but you might not - the answer won't be the same for everyone.

That's a lot of protein to get from a healthy balanced diet isn't it?

ut_och_cykla

alp777 wrote:

Sampras38 - the laugh's on you because water is definitely essential to sustain life but taking protein shakes is completely unnecessary for many of us.

Jimycooper - you're wise to question the advice you get, whoever gives it to you. I suggest you try to work out whether your diet is short of protein or not. If it isn't then taking a protein shake would be a waste of money.

A good rule of thumb for most endurance cyclists is to aim for 1.5g of protein per day per kg of body weight. If you look at the food packets for everything you eat for a few days and do a few sums you should be able to work out whether you're usually getting about that much protein. Most endurance cyclists (as opposed to track sprinters) who eat a healthy, balanced diet won't need to eat any extra protein. Maybe the guy who gave you the advice does need it, but you might not - the answer won't be the same for everyone.

That's a lot of protein to get from a healthy balanced diet isn't it?

Yes - personally I think so. for a 70 kg person its 105g pure protein per day (420kcals) - 350g of steak (700kcal) a day, or 8 boiled eggs (1144 kcal) or equivalent.

if you want it to be 20% of your daily intake (+20% fats, +60%carbs) you'll be eating about 4500 kcal a day - i.e exercising moderatley hard 2½ hours a day + daily normal requirements - in broad terms.
Thereof the usefullness of protein powders to boost protein intake without adding too many extra calories. (although real food is preferable)

BeaconRuth

ut_och_cykla wrote:

alp777 wrote:

Sampras38 - the laugh's on you because water is definitely essential to sustain life but taking protein shakes is completely unnecessary for many of us.

Jimycooper - you're wise to question the advice you get, whoever gives it to you. I suggest you try to work out whether your diet is short of protein or not. If it isn't then taking a protein shake would be a waste of money.

A good rule of thumb for most endurance cyclists is to aim for 1.5g of protein per day per kg of body weight. If you look at the food packets for everything you eat for a few days and do a few sums you should be able to work out whether you're usually getting about that much protein. Most endurance cyclists (as opposed to track sprinters) who eat a healthy, balanced diet won't need to eat any extra protein. Maybe the guy who gave you the advice does need it, but you might not - the answer won't be the same for everyone.

That's a lot of protein to get from a healthy balanced diet isn't it?

Yes - personally I think so. for a 70 kg person its 105g pure protein per day (420kcals) - 350g of steak (700kcal) a day, or 8 boiled eggs (1144 kcal) or equivalent.

if you want it to be 20% of your daily intake (+20% fats, +60%carbs) you'll be eating about 4500 kcal a day - i.e exercising moderatley hard 2½ hours a day + daily normal requirements - in broad terms.
Thereof the usefullness of protein powders to boost protein intake without adding too many extra calories. (although real food is preferable)

I'm afraid that, unusually, I disagree with ut_och_cykla on this. Last time I was keeping an accurate food diary I was eating well over 130g of protein per day, with no special supplements - and my daily requirement based on my weight would be only 84g. A typical day would only have a normal chicken, cottage cheese, egg or fish portion at lunch and dinner, but about 30% of my protein intake was from other things that aren't especially high in protein, but which do have some protein all the same. Milk, rice, muesli, bread and Ryvita all had significant quantities of protein and I even got 13g of protein from the fruit and veg I ate on the particular day I've picked out at random. So I think that trying to envisage the correct amount of protein for you in terms of pieces of steak or a number of boiled eggs is a bit too simplistic.

Ruth

Headhuunter

I'd agree with all this. I usually drink a mix of maltodextrin and protein after a hard ride to aid recovery and it definitely helps. You have to remember that any hard training ride of 3 hours or over is going to see your body actually burn protein as fuel rather than just carbohydrate. If there is no protein in your body available it will cannibalise your muscles. I usually add a small scoop of protein powder to maltodextrin energy drinks for long, hard training rides, then when I return I mix some maltodextrin with a larger scoop of protein powder to aid recovery. After this I eat a good meal and finish with fruit or a home made juice of some kind.

I used to try to do long training rides on water and a couple of bananas and suffered enormously. I usde toget back from 50-70 mile rides at 18mph average or so and just literally collapse for the rest of the day unable to do anything, however now all I need is a short rest of the sofa and I can get stuff done.

Get basic whey protein isolate from My Protein on the net

mingmong

Headhuunter wrote:

I'd agree with all this. I usually drink a mix of maltodextrin and protein after a hard ride to aid recovery and it definitely helps. You have to remember that any hard training ride of 3 hours or over is going to see your body actually burn protein as fuel rather than just carbohydrate. If there is no protein in your body available it will cannibalise your muscles. I usually add a small scoop of protein powder to maltodextrin energy drinks for long, hard training rides, then when I return I mix some maltodextrin with a larger scoop of protein powder to aid recovery. After this I eat a good meal and finish with fruit or a home made juice of some kind.

I used to try to do long training rides on water and a couple of bananas and suffered enormously. I usde toget back from 50-70 mile rides at 18mph average or so and just literally collapse for the rest of the day unable to do anything, however now all I need is a short rest of the sofa and I can get stuff done.

Get basic whey protein isolate from My Protein on the net

+1

Totally agree with the above. I find High5 EnergySource 4:1 (1 being part protein) in my water bottle helps on the longer / more ardous rides. Less pain in the legs at the end of the day.

Just my opinion.

ut_och_cykla

BeaconRuth wrote:

ut_och_cykla wrote:

alp777 wrote:

Sampras38 - the laugh's on you because water is definitely essential to sustain life but taking protein shakes is completely unnecessary for many of us.

Jimycooper - you're wise to question the advice you get, whoever gives it to you. I suggest you try to work out whether your diet is short of protein or not. If it isn't then taking a protein shake would be a waste of money.

A good rule of thumb for most endurance cyclists is to aim for 1.5g of protein per day per kg of body weight. If you look at the food packets for everything you eat for a few days and do a few sums you should be able to work out whether you're usually getting about that much protein. Most endurance cyclists (as opposed to track sprinters) who eat a healthy, balanced diet won't need to eat any extra protein. Maybe the guy who gave you the advice does need it, but you might not - the answer won't be the same for everyone.

That's a lot of protein to get from a healthy balanced diet isn't it?

Yes - personally I think so. for a 70 kg person its 105g pure protein per day (420kcals) - 350g of steak (700kcal) a day, or 8 boiled eggs (1144 kcal) or equivalent.

if you want it to be 20% of your daily intake (+20% fats, +60%carbs) you'll be eating about 4500 kcal a day - i.e exercising moderatley hard 2½ hours a day + daily normal requirements - in broad terms.
Thereof the usefullness of protein powders to boost protein intake without adding too many extra calories. (although real food is preferable)

I'm afraid that, unusually, I disagree with ut_och_cykla on this. Last time I was keeping an accurate food diary I was eating well over 130g of protein per day, with no special supplements - and my daily requirement based on my weight would be only 84g. A typical day would only have a normal chicken, cottage cheese, egg or fish portion at lunch and dinner, but about 30% of my protein intake was from other things that aren't especially high in protein, but which do have some protein all the same. Milk, rice, muesli, bread and Ryvita all had significant quantities of protein and I even got 13g of protein from the fruit and veg I ate on the particular day I've picked out at random. So I think that trying to envisage the correct amount of protein for you in terms of pieces of steak or a number of boiled eggs is a bit too simplistic.

Ruth

Yes Ruth I take your point - my illustrations were a bit simplistic. It was just a personal reflection that I think it would seem a lot for some people, especially if they wanted to increase their protein intake without the extra calories involved.

Obviously if you are in a position to be able to eat heartily because you are exercising fairly extensively every day then protein intake based on g/kg body weight is not an issue.
And whatever the case I would still advocate real food whereever possible - In my opinion powders - protein or otherwise - should be for special situations - not part of everyday life!

vorsprung

I am not keeping a careful food diary like Ruth but normal protein input is approx 80g a day and I weight just over 80kg

This is slightly low but within the normal range so I am not worried at all. I cycle commute every day so I am more at the "active" rather than "training" end of the spectrum

I will be doing a bit of a weight reduction diet after xmas and aim to use a protein supplement for that. It seems that most people believe that increasing your protein input reduces muscle wastage during dieting.

Headhuunter

vorsprung wrote:

I am not keeping a careful food diary like Ruth but normal protein input is approx 80g a day and I weight just over 80kg

This is slightly low but within the normal range so I am not worried at all. I cycle commute every day so I am more at the "active" rather than "training" end of the spectrum

I will be doing a bit of a weight reduction diet after xmas and aim to use a protein supplement for that. It seems that most people believe that increasing your protein input reduces muscle wastage during dieting.

Protein also makes you feel fuller so you may feel less need to eat

ride_whenever

you also want a wide variation in where you get protein from in your diet, so that you have the ability to match your requirements for amino acids with the contents of your food.

Headhuunter

ride_whenever wrote:

you also want a wide variation in where you get protein from in your diet, so that you have the ability to match your requirements for amino acids with the contents of your food.

And I've always been led to believe that it's a good idea to consume sources of vegetable protein from beans, pulses and the like with carb sources like brown rice. Something to do with the veg protein molecules combining with carbs to create full protein molecules.