Grand Tour rider tiers

mididoctors

FJS wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

FJS wrote:

I would also put Basso in Tier 3, but without a +; I would put Nibali in there with a +, and Kreuziger without a plus.

I still think Basso is better than Nibali.

I agree

iainf72 wrote:

If Basso had done this years Tour I expect he would've come in 3rd or 4th.

I agree

iainf72 wrote:

Basso will also be better next year hence the +.

I don't agree. Well, it's all speculation anyway. Let's see next year.

iainf72 wrote:

I feel a bit light headed with this cycling discussion

I know, I know

I don't see Basso stepping up again...

deejay

Kléber wrote:

He's just been unlucky with injury. Clearly bike handling matters, Gesink lost Paris-Nice because he couldn't follow the pace on a descent and his lanky shape doesn't help. A real talent but like Theunisse or Soler he is probably better suited to aiming for a podium and the KOM.

The 2nd tier can be looked at, "If AC was unable to ride" The contenders would then be.???
Basso, Andy and Gesink are the riders I think will improve next year.
Andy should improve with the experience he is gaining.
Basso has been on the comeback trail this year and my view of his riding is that he seems to be testing himself for the glory next year.
On Saturday Gesink finally showed his class with that outstanding win of the Giro dell'Emilia and like Zulle he might learn to descend better. (before you tell me, Zulle's problem was rain on his glasses)

I would dismiss Cunago for GT's, (but then I always have) and I have no good thoughts for the 7 timer and hope he cannot improve on this year.

richard wants a baum

I pretty much agree with what Iain has, i would leave A.Schleck there cos i think he has more improvement in him that Contador and i think with a bit more confidence and less worrying about his brother he could have put more pressure on Bertie. Basso and Evans are really hard ones, Evans year was a mixed bag and Basso was most definitely easing himself into it. If Evans can get his head and team right he is going to come close to the podium, and if Contador's luck changes then maybe more. Basso could come up to the top tier aswell, but nothing this year has pionted at him really challenging Contador especially in the TT's.
Gesink as has been mentioned has lots of potential but has produced, yet. If Contador stays with Astana we actually might have a race next year seeing as at present they seem not to have a list capable of supporting him also isnt he due for some bad luck at some stage crash, evans style flat? would be great if he lost a decent amount of time early next year to get some intrest in the race.

Tom Butcher

I think the original list is being kind to Sastre - I think he got his Tour win at the right time and I reckon the best he can hope for now is podium at the Giro or Vuelta. Armstrong and Basso are potentially a lot better than tier 3 - remains to be seen whether they can recapture past form - they did enough this year not to write them off so I'd move them up - I'd have either as a more like GT winner than Sastre for example.

I wouldn't give Evans a plus - he hasn't won a GT whereas some of the riders below him have several - and he isn't going to get any better unlike possibly Wiggins, probably Gesink and maybe a few others.

VDV would be tier 4 at best - there are other riders who don't figure I'd have above him.

RichN95.

Tom Butcher wrote:

I wouldn't give Evans a plus - he hasn't won a GT whereas some of the riders below him have several - and he isn't going to get any better unlike possibly Wiggins, probably Gesink and maybe a few others.

.

I think Evans will improve - not physically, but mentally. He's finally got a big win after so many near misses, so it's going to be a huge weight off his shoulders.

Pross

For me there'd be a Tier 1 + of Bertie, Tier 1 would be Andy, Armstrong and Evans.

knedlicky

iainf72 wrote:

who's who in terms of Grand Tours.

Tier 1
Contador, Andy Schleck

Tier 2
Evans +, Menchov, Sastre

Tier 3
Frank Schleck, Wiggins, Basso +, Pellazotti, VDV, Gesink +, Valverde, Armstrong

Thoughts?

Seems the who’s who is based on potential or wishful-thinking, more than anything.

If it were based on this season’s results, Armstrong and Basso would be classed higher, maybe even Tier 1, since they both finished two GTs with okay-to--good placings, while several other riders probably have more claim to be listed than Gesink or VdV.

Evans probably only warrants Tier 2 based on his performances in non-GT events , like Dauphine Libere, and if you were to give the same credit to other GT riders, then you’d include Kreuziger, Kloeden and Sanchez in Tier 2 and Karpets in Tier 3. Probably Nibali in Tier 3 too.

If you're giving more weight to potential than top GT placings, maybe Martin could also be in Tier 3?

mididoctors

RichN95 wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

I think Evans will improve - not physically, but mentally. He's finally got a big win after so many near misses, so it's going to be a huge weight off his shoulders.

swan song... harsh but he still ain't got a team...can podium somewhere still I guess

if he had a good team that rode defensively he could have beaten sastre in 2008... bertie back in the game and his own fading ability its all down hill

I agree the rainbow will help mentally...perhaps he should think more about one day rides

is LBL really impossible for him? or a big solo mountain stage in the tour after "losing a mass of time"...polka dot.. why not? no ttt 2010(?) could give him a sliver of hope

I'm glad he won at mendrizio but I can't see him stepping up

richard wants a baum

knedlicky

Evans probably only warrants Tier 2 based on his performances in non-GT events , like Dauphine Libere, and if you were to give the same credit to other GT riders, then you’d include Kreuziger, Kloeden and Sanchez in Tier 2 and Karpets in Tier 3. Probably Nibali in Tier 3 too.

Evans did podium at the Vuelta, which is the same as LA best result in a GT this year so i wouldnt have him above Cadel, and Considering his other results reckon he deserves Tier 2 at the least. He had a horrible Tour but that aside when you consider the Dauphine the Worlds decent Spring Classics he done pretty well really and rode a long season competively. Same could be said for Gesink, if he hadnt had that fall in the Vuelta he would have had a podium aswell. I think the list is more a look at the ability to get good results than a list purely from where everyone finished.