Boring question about reflectors!
KonaKurt
Posts: 720
*Yawn*!
Just thought I would ask this little teaser, after some old fella mentioned it today.
Although I have excellent front & rear LED lights, my bike has no reflectors at all (like many quality machines). He claimed that technically, it is ilegal to ride on a public road without either a front or red rear reflector, regardless of whether you have lights on or not.
Sounds a little petty... is this true? And could you get fined by the police for this infringement of our crazy British law?
(I would not be surprised if this WAS true, even if you wear a yellow viz jacket, plus lights on!)
KK.
Just thought I would ask this little teaser, after some old fella mentioned it today.
Although I have excellent front & rear LED lights, my bike has no reflectors at all (like many quality machines). He claimed that technically, it is ilegal to ride on a public road without either a front or red rear reflector, regardless of whether you have lights on or not.
Sounds a little petty... is this true? And could you get fined by the police for this infringement of our crazy British law?
(I would not be surprised if this WAS true, even if you wear a yellow viz jacket, plus lights on!)
KK.
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Comments
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It is true, no reflectors (front, rear & wheel) = illegal to ride on the road. You also need a bell.
If you did get a fine you would be very very unlucky. exceedingly rare for a copper to do you for this.
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Andy_B wrote:It is true, no reflectors (front, rear & wheel) = illegal to ride on the road. You also need a bell.
If you did get a fine you would be very very unlucky. exceedingly rare for a copper to do you for this.
Nope only a rear relctor is required by law and amber pedal refectgor if bike was made afer '85.-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Mongoose Teocali
Giant STP0
Why are MTB economics; spend twice as much as you intended, but only half as much as you wish you could afford? :roll:0 -
new bikes have to be supplied with front, rear, side & pedal reflectors, to conform to The Pedal Cycles (Safety) Regulations, Under BS 6102, the following reflectors are required to be fitted: White front reflector (unless a front light is fitted), red rear reflector, pedal reflectors and side or spoke reflectors.
Exemptions are:
any bicycle with a saddle height less than 635 millimetres. (Child bicycles are covered by separate legislation)
a second-hand bicycle
a competition bicycle
a bicycle constructed to an individual person's design for use in competitive events
a bicycle intended for use outside the United Kingdom0 -
A rear reflector and pedal reflectors are required when riding on the road. As Andy_B says additional reflectors are required under the Pedal Cycles Safety Regulations but the front and wheel reflectors can be removed after sale as these regulations only relate to the sale and not the use of bicycles. I can't imagine anyone getting stopped for not having reflectors but it might be an extra thing to get you on if you get stopped for something else.0
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So, just being pi$$y, my pedals (1/2 SPDs) don't come with reflectors - what happens then?
I'm sure other clipless pedals don't have reflectors either - like,where would they go?1997 Gary Fisher Big Sur
2009 Scott Spark 60
2010 Ghost 5000
2011 Commencal Ramones AL1
2012 Commencal Meta AM10 -
Looking at the exemptions list, you either have to tell Mr Plod:
- you bought the bike secondhand
- you built it yourself for racing
- it was bought for racing
Adam.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Current ride - Yeti ASR 5a X00 -
Pufftmw wrote:So, just being pi$$y, my pedals (1/2 SPDs) don't come with reflectors - what happens then?
I'm sure other clipless pedals don't have reflectors either - like,where would they go?
Good question... Reflectors aren't really that robust on some flat pedals anyway - I've got just one of them left, the other 3 probably rattled off on a trail somewhere.0 -
My old local bike shop never used to sell bikes with reflectors and bells etc until he got a visit from the authorities... when they asked he claimed that they were competition racing bikes and as such were exempt... all was going well until they noticed the hybrid tandem hanging up at the back and enquired exactly which competition that was designed for...0
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My Rize came with the reflectors, bell and that dorky plastic cassette guard in a bag. Way to go, lbs =]0
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Ads4 wrote:Looking at the exemptions list, you either have to tell Mr Plod:
- you bought the bike secondhand
- you built it yourself for racing
- it was bought for racing
No, those are exceptions for selling a bike without reflectors. Different rules apply when actually riding a bike on the road. Just like a bike has to be sold with a bell, but you can throw it away as soon as you get it home.
Coincidentally, don't the rules on what a bike should be sold with apply to complete bikes.....who here has bought a bike with no pedals, i.e. 'incomplete'.?
Edit: A 'dorky' cassette guard would have saved me a £50 wheel rebuild!
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I think it must be a requirement for shops to sell with reflectors and bells(any of you who work in bike shops might know?) My Marin came with a lovely bell, front and back reflectors, these little cages that went around the pedals with reflectors and the white reflectors on the spokes. They were all swiftly removed (for weight saving purposes obviously - nothing to do with vanity). Kept them on my commuter though as I don't really care what I look like as long the as many of the cars see me as possible.Santa Cruz Chameleon
Orange Alpine 1600 -
You'd have to be very unlucky to get done for no reflectors if you have good lighting on your bike.
My Trek came with just two reflectors which I removed. Well actually, the front reflector mount was screwed on so tight that when I tried to unscrew it, it burred. Its still there now with no way to remove it
Everything else was in a bag.0 -
captainfly wrote:Andy_B wrote:It is true, no reflectors (front, rear & wheel) = illegal to ride on the road. You also need a bell.
If you did get a fine you would be very very unlucky. exceedingly rare for a copper to do you for this.
Nope only a rear relctor is required by law and amber pedal refectgor if bike was made afer '85.
And you don't need a bell either. A complete bike has to be supplied with one, but you don't have to have a bell fitted for road riding.0 -
.blitz wrote:
Not needed if the indexing and stops are correctly adjusted. What happened?bails87 wrote:Edit: A 'dorky' cassette guard would have saved me a £50 wheel rebuild!
They obviously weren't! I think it was at Cannock, on FTD at the bottom of the loose sandy hill that leads up to the section overlooking the ponds. I changed down very quickly and must have pushed the lever that little bit too far, or maybe momentum carried it as it was a big shift, at speed, over bumpy ground. The chain went over the top of the cassette, I didnt realise so stamped down on the pedals to steam up the hill, and got some chainsaw action going on the spokes! Sorted the limit screws and didn't notice the damage for a few months, I was lucky it didnt fall apart I think.
Back on topic......I think Dave_Hill got it right!0 -
OK everyone, interesting tips on reflector law.
But does anyone actually know anyone who has been prosecuted, or even just stopped by Mr Plod, for not having any reflectors?
The only person I can think of was a schoolmates dad, but that was back in 1984!
KK.0 -
What's a policeman? I haven't seen one of those, since, ooooh, I can't remember when...0
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i remember when i used to work at a cannondale dealer, the pedal refectors were so crap, when you fitted them it was basically like balancing them on the pedals and they fell off if you so much as looked at them, let alone tried to actually pedal the bike.- Kona Hot '96 - Marin Rift Zone '09 - Cannondale Synapse Carbon '06 - Kona Caldera '98 - Kona AA '94 - Dawes Kickback II - Cannondale BadBoy '11 - Genesis iOiD SS -0
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LOL where are you guys getting this from? OK the truth is this.
“The Pedal Bicycles Safety Regulations” Only applies to retailers selling new bikes and even then there are many exceptions.
“The Pedal Bicycles Safety Regulations” is just a extension of the “Consumer Protection Act”
There are NO legal requirements for a bicycle to have any reflectors, lights or any such thing between sunrise to sunset.0 -
Dave, Policemen? I've been pondering on that too. According to vintage TV clips, they used to be fairly respected assigned 'officers of the law' who's job and duty it was, to care about and uphold the law of the land for the safety and good of the population. Also according to vintage TV clips (and I am going back to the 60's and 70's here) they used to turn up ready to deal with reported incidents and crimes, catch and handcuff criminals without exceptions or excuses, and were even known to sometimes go to the effort of pursuing them by car or on foot. I also beleive that they used to wear tall black helmets, possibly with large blue flashing lights on top, according to many a comedy sketch. Most surprising to me, they used to actually offer helpful advice to citizens asking for simple directions, or other simple civil matters, and not just pass them by with a vacant expression as if you were an invisible ghost. If you get mugged, assulted or hit by a passing vehicle, it's more than possible that they will have something more important to focus on.
Again, I haven't seen or heard of them for sometime, I guess they phased out...? Although I understand that they are something to do with spending vast amounts of council tax money among other privilages, even during hard pressed times.
If I see one at work, I'll let you know Dave.
KK.0 -
Great Ayton wrote:LOL where are you guys getting this from? OK the truth is this.
“The Pedal Bicycles Safety Regulations” Only applies to retailers selling new bikes and even then there are many exceptions.
“The Pedal Bicycles Safety Regulations” is just a extension of the “Consumer Protection Act”
There are NO legal requirements for a bicycle to have any reflectors, lights or any such thing between sunrise to sunset.
But what about AFTER sunset?
KK.0 -
but at night time you have to make sure you're carrying a packet of cheese and onion crisps or you'll be nicked...- Kona Hot '96 - Marin Rift Zone '09 - Cannondale Synapse Carbon '06 - Kona Caldera '98 - Kona AA '94 - Dawes Kickback II - Cannondale BadBoy '11 - Genesis iOiD SS -0
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Hoathy wrote:but at night time you have to make sure you're carrying a packet of cheese and onion crisps or you'll be nicked...
I thought it was salt and vinegar?0 -
KonaKurt wrote:But what about AFTER sunset?
Yes you have to have them at night. Also if you have light fitted you have to use them in thick fog or other poor conditions even if its in the day.0 -
anyone would think a bike was a vechicle! lights in bad weather!?!?! unbelivable, i would have just opted for cycling on the pavement or getting run down- Kona Hot '96 - Marin Rift Zone '09 - Cannondale Synapse Carbon '06 - Kona Caldera '98 - Kona AA '94 - Dawes Kickback II - Cannondale BadBoy '11 - Genesis iOiD SS -0
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I've been riding on the road for 1/4 of a century now - only one of my bikes has had a rear reflector on - none have had the pedal reflectors - never been stopped by the police.
If you are going to ride at night - bung on some decent lights and you'll be fine. I'd also slap on reflective stuff too - not from a legal point of view - just that some motorists are blind.0 -
You are right, and wrong.Great Ayton wrote:LOL where are you guys getting this from? OK the truth is this.
“The Pedal Bicycles Safety Regulations” Only applies to retailers selling new bikes and even then there are many exceptions.
“The Pedal Bicycles Safety Regulations” is just a extension of the “Consumer Protection Act”
There are NO legal requirements for a bicycle to have any reflectors, lights or any such thing between sunrise to sunset.
Yes there is a legal requirement for new pedal cycles to be sold with front, rear, side & pedal reflectors
But
There is also a legal requirement under the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 (schedule 18 section 1b) to have a rear reflector & pedal reflectors fitted to a cycle, there are some exclusions and additions to this legal requirement.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_1 ... htm#nsch18
http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=40710 -
Sorry Andy but you are mistaken. Read your second link again as it is quite a good explication of the law. The important part is the regulations only apply to a bicycle “when being ridden on a public road between sunset and sunrise.” Like I said there are no legal requirements for a bicycle to have any reflectors, lights, or any such thing between sunrise to sunset.0
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KonaKurt wrote:If I see one at work, I'll let you know Dave.
You may spot one when it is most inconvenient for you or when you don't actually need to speak to one.
Like last week when I overtook an unmarked car on double white lines.0 -
Great Ayton wrote:Sorry Andy but you are mistaken. Read your second link again as it is quite a good explication of the law. The important part is the regulations only apply to a bicycle “when being ridden on a public road between sunset and sunrise.” Like I said there are no legal requirements for a bicycle to have any reflectors, lights, or any such thing between sunrise to sunset.
you're making me laugh you are! thankyou!
i think you're massively missing the point that people might actually be riding on public roads after sunset. what with sunset happening early and not all night rides only being on private land.
you're both righ, just arguing the toss tbh!
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