Dropping to flat

yoohoo999

For many years, probably due to spending most of them on a hardtail, I developed my technique of doing drops to flat by landing on my rear wheel first then dropping my front.

Clearly, this is more important with a static drop to flat, but I also use it for drops when I'm carrying speed.

I landed a drop on Saturday which was a wall with a nice run in, with a path of about 8ft to clear and then a completely flat grass landing. I was riding an 8" freeride bike.

Normally, if there is a transition, I aim for the shape of the transition, however with a flat landing I get the back wheel down asap.

My mates were having a bit of a laugh at me landing this drop pointing out that it was a bit unnecessary on a big full suspension rig, and to be fair, they were landing with wheels almost level. My landing was far more controlled and I can use the same technique at up to about 8ft without worrying about me or the bike.

I've been reading on the internet since then and it would appear that there are lots of conflicting views on doing large drops to flat at speed. A couple of resources actually said that the rear wheel first technique puts too much stress on the bike, but I just don't get the logic of that.

How does everyone else drop to flat on a full suss when you are carrying a fair bit of speed off the edge?

supersonic

I do slightly rear wheel first to flat, if anything. But I have a HT, same as you.

Look at how trials riders drop - almost always onto the back wheel!

paul.skibum

There is no reason the technique should change dramatically HT to FS but landing both wheels isn't neccessarily wrong either just more likely to kick you over the bars!

Daz555

yoohoo999 wrote:

Normally, if there is a transition, I aim for the shape of the transition

A flat landing is just a 0 deg transition. However, all I would say is that front wheel first always feels wrong and any landing that does not bend you or the bike is 100% successful!
8)

Northwind

Think it depends how straight you're going too, if there's any rotation then I find landing on the rear a bit hairy, at speed... But landing nose down means the rear swings in behind you nicely, whereas landing rear first really snaps the front round.

Splasher

In landing a strong hardtail, like a trials or DJ bike, the rear wheel landing allows the rotation of the bike to take some of the shock from your legs. With a big full susser, this is not necessary since the rear suspension does that job and if you're nailing a DH, getting both wheels back in contact with the ground restores control.

Can't see it matters in the situation you've described. The proof of the pudding in landing any drop surely is if the bike is in one piece and you're still upright. I'm always chuffed if I'm not lying in a heap wondering what went wrong.

ride_whenever

exactly, apply the same mentality as i do when running regattas, it's a success as long as no-one dies.

BurtonM

I tend to just land on my head, as proven at inner at the weekend for all you luckily enough to watch Wasnt on a jump to flat though

Raymondavalon

BurtonM wrote:

I tend to just land on my head, as proven at inner at the weekend for all you luckily enough to watch Wasnt on a jump to flat though

LMFAO! I just grin and bear it..

I do ride an AM and my off road enduro (motor) bike background kicks in with me almost always landing rear wheel first..

bungalistic

Northwind wrote:

Think it depends how straight you're going too, if there's any rotation then I find landing on the rear a bit hairy, at speed... But landing nose down means the rear swings in behind you nicely, whereas landing rear first really snaps the front round.

I tend to try and land front wheel first also, feels smoother as the the back end just follows through, this is more on jumps though where you do have some sort of transitioned run out. Smaller drops I would still try land front first so the suspension takes a small hit (hardtail rider) and rolls away, allowing the back wheel to roll through.

militantmandy

BurtonM wrote:

I tend to just land on my head, as proven at inner at the weekend for all you luckily enough to watch Wasnt on a jump to flat though

is there video evidence of this?

grumsta

If you watch stuff like the Danny Macaskill vid where he does huge drops to flat on a bike with no suspension, he always lands rear wheel first.

Northwind

grumsta wrote:

If you watch stuff like the Danny Macaskill vid where he does huge drops to flat on a bike with no suspension, he always lands rear wheel first.

Yup. But we're not doing that.

yoohoo999

OK. Here is exactly what I'm talking about!

Here is me doing a small drop (about 3-4ft) at a relatively quick pace, to flat landing. I was trying to clear the path.

I have added slow motion which makes my rear wheel landing quite obvious, and you can see my bum squirm around a bit as I land!


http://www.pinkbike.com/video/103484/

supersonic

Well you landed it! Definitely a lot of rear bias, I would be careful of looping out backwards.

yoohoo999

yeah, that's my worry. i can drop 8ft to flat from stationary without a worry, but it's 8ft to flat with speed that can cause me problems........mostly likely down to me having all my weight over the rear wheel for about 15ft after I land!!!!

Suppose I need to try to get my weight back over the front once the front is down.

thanks for the pointers!

Anonymous

yoohoo999 wrote:

OK. Here is exactly what I'm talking about!

Here is me doing a small drop (about 3-4ft) at a relatively quick pace, to flat landing. I was trying to clear the path.

I have added slow motion which makes my rear wheel landing quite obvious, and you can see my bum squirm around a bit as I land!


http://www.pinkbike.com/video/103484/

You seem to be hitting the front end pretty danmned hard after landing. Ideally, you should be looking to almost balance the forces around the back wheel, so that you can use your arms stretching to take the impact.
Try checking out trials riders dropping in slow slow motion.

Whether or not you've got full suss, I still reckon that landing a flat drop trials style will still put way less strain on your frame.

yoohoo999

But with a trials style static drop you only have one direction of movement to control.

Carrying speed into a drop adds in another element of motion to the move, the forward momentum of the speed you take off at along with the fact that the forward momentum has to go somewhere when your rear wheel hits the ground.

You would have to be pretty damn strong to keep the front from rolling down hard dropping like that. It's the natural distribution of force.

It's much easier using that principle when just doing a side hop to flat.

Anonymous

but the rear-wheel landing is still, a hell of a lot less force going directly through the frame.
Forward momentum isn't a major issue, as both you and your bike are going forwards as one unit.

yoohoo999

oh yeah, I totally agree with you on that one.

I would never land to flat any other way, I don't see what my mates are on about. There's just no way that I would feel comfortable hitting the ground with the bike level onto flat ground, just seems too heavy and likely to pitch me over the bars.

joshtp

i land SLIGHTLY rear first, you landed VERY rear first, its good, but the whole "looping out " isue would worry me!.

Anonymous

yoohoo999 wrote:

oh yeah, I totally agree with you on that one.

I would never land to flat any other way, I don't see what my mates are on about. There's just no way that I would feel comfortable hitting the ground with the bike level onto flat ground, just seems too heavy and likely to pitch me over the bars.

It's also worth considering the forces you'r putting your body through.
(ignoring suspension for a minute) Consider dropping 4 feet to flat, both wheels at the same time. This should be fine, but your body will be absorbing a lot of force.

Now, imagine doing the same thing, but from a 10 foot drop. Chances are, this might hurt, possibly quite a lot. People with less strength may even collapse onto their bike, causing injury.

Try the same again from 15 feet, and you're going to be in trouble.

Now, using a trials drop technique, you can do the same drops, but use your body more effectively to absorb the landing. It allows you to increase the amount of time your mass takes to reduce it's velocity.

So, with suspension, you might be ale to drop to flat from higher up before experiencing issues, but at some point, you're still going to need good technique.

joshtp

yeehaamcgee wrote:

yoohoo999 wrote:

oh yeah, I totally agree with you on that one.

I would never land to flat any other way, I don't see what my mates are on about. There's just no way that I would feel comfortable hitting the ground with the bike level onto flat ground, just seems too heavy and likely to pitch me over the bars.

It's also worth considering the forces you'r putting your body through.
(ignoring suspension for a minute) Consider dropping 4 feet to flat, both wheels at the same time. This should be fine, but your body will be absorbing a lot of force.

Now, imagine doing the same thing, but from a 10 foot drop. Chances are, this might hurt, possibly quite a lot. People with less strength may even collapse onto their bike, causing injury.

Try the same again from 15 feet, and you're going to be in trouble.

Now, using a trials drop technique, you can do the same drops, but use your body more effectively to absorb the landing. It allows you to increase the amount of time your mass takes to reduce it's velocity.

So, with suspension, you might be ale to drop to flat from higher up before experiencing issues, but at some point, you're still going to need good technique.

he's making a good point here, you need good technique, esp the higher you go, look at a trials rider, they can drop 15-20 ft from flat to flat, no probs, no sus, its the technique, so using the same technique on a big sus bike when going fast can only help! it might not be as nesessary, but......

bungalistic

You can't really compare this to trials, they have to land back wheel first and they have to have the right technique to do so.

If you land too heavy on your back wheel first you run the risk of bottoming out your shock and blowing it, same with landing too heavy on the front also.

No matter what you do landing to flat after any drop is pretty uncomfortable, I don't think there is a right or wrong way, if you feel more comfortable landing rear wheel first do so but try not to land too far back as you do in that video example.

yoohoo999

good good! that's for that guys. i'm glad i haven't been getting myself into bad habits over the years.

Now all I need to do if find a 15ft drop to flat and wipe the smiles from my mates faces

To be fair, the biggest I ever drop to flat is around 8ft, even from a static start. We used to drop off of bus stops when we were younger. 8ft is a long way to fall if you get it wrong!

I can happily land more than that if there is a nice transition on the way out, but jumping to flat above a certain height isn't much fun, both the bike and me start to take a pounding. my back always aches after a lot of flat landings.

Northwind

Here's a thing... The suspension only really works in one direction. If you land with a lot of rear wheel bias, you might actually be subjecting the bike to worse stresses than if you landed flat- since the suspension's designed to move up and, generally, backwards. Only in extremes of course but if you did a full on trials landing I reckon most suss frames will like it less than a relatively flat landing.

The Northern Monkey

Wouldn't wanna land on my HT like that :shock:

No matter how you feel comfortable.... either rear wheel 1st or at the same time, its gotta be smooooooottthhhhhh.

From the videa it kinda looks like your've just being a bit leg lazy. You're getting a hard rear wheel smack and then being thrown forwards into your forks.

joshtp/mbukman wrote:

i land SLIGHTLY rear first, you landed VERY rear first, its good, but the whole "looping out " isue would worry me!.

very +1

fourcrossjohn

always try to get my back wheel down first!

unless itsl ike a 3ft drop so i just push down!

Northwind

I was watching the first collective dvd last night, and bits of seasons... watching the trails and downhill bits, it's interesting just how rarely people land rear first on decent jumps, I'd never really bothered to look before. Flat or front is what they do about 9 times out of 10, and they're WAY better than me

Anonymous

Northwind wrote:

I was watching the first collective dvd last night, and bits of seasons... watching the trails and downhill bits, it's interesting just how rarely people land rear first on decent jumps, I'd never really bothered to look before. Flat or front is what they do about 9 times out of 10, and they're WAY better than me

Ah, but they're generally landing on a transition, not on flat.

Northwind

There's some flats too. But a transition's just a flat at an angle