AFLD: UCI tipped off Astana on doping controls
Comments
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Why the outrage?
Cycling is a demonstrably fraudulent sport where Champions use PEDs witth the implicit support of its governing body who fail to implement rules that wouold catch cheats and then fail to support exisitng rules.
This isnt new. Its still a great sport and readilly accesible to most Most Europeans and North Americans. Theres too much money involved for it to be pure. Riders dont owe any of you anything, if you dont like it take up Triathlon oh hang on that might not be free of PEDs either.
Is still good calves
AVE0 -
Aha! I've posted a few comments all about Mr Bruyneel not getting caught but landing all the big victories. This kind of thing is just the ticket. Whether right or wrong there are some Teams who dope less, other Teams who dope a lot and get caught and there are Teams who dope a lot and DON'T get caught. I think Columbia too have been extremely successful this year without any doping problems. Another Team that has developed that Bruyneel effect.
I've previously posted commenting that Contador should consider Bruyneel's dope free past before he goes to another Team. If Contador leaves Astana then that Bruyneel's security may not follow him.
45 mins is good time to get yourself sorted before a drugs test. I'm sure that if anyone drinks enough water then the dilution of the blood is enough to get yourself under the maximum EPO limit. Teams are clever in the extreme and have the best brains to get round the systems which are put in their way.
I don't see this news as a bad news; having Bruyneel win another Tour is bad news. No manager can win Tours in such an extreme fashion; something is wrong somewhere. Maybe for Bruyneel it could be the end of days!
Happy Happy!
-Jerry“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving”- Albert Einstein
"You can't ride the Tour de France on mineral water."
-Jacques Anquetil0 -
Vino wrote:Why the outrage?
Cycling is a demonstrably fraudulent sport where Champions use PEDs witth the implicit support of its governing body who fail to implement rules that wouold catch cheats and then fail to support exisitng rules.
This isnt new. Its still a great sport and readilly accesible to most Most Europeans and North Americans. Theres too much money involved for it to be pure. Riders dont owe any of you anything, if you dont like it take up Triathlon oh hang on that might not be free of PEDs either.
Is still good calves
AVE
Vino, you are dennisn and I claim my 5 bucks.___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
calvjones wrote:Vino wrote:Why the outrage?
Cycling is a demonstrably fraudulent sport where Champions use PEDs witth the implicit support of its governing body who fail to implement rules that wouold catch cheats and then fail to support exisitng rules.
This isnt new. Its still a great sport and readilly accesible to most Most Europeans and North Americans. Theres too much money involved for it to be pure. Riders dont owe any of you anything, if you dont like it take up Triathlon oh hang on that might not be free of PEDs either.
Is still good calves
AVE
Vino, you are dennisn and I claim my 5 bucks.
I'm Vino???? Wait a minute when did this happen??? And if true, where's my split of the 5 bucks?0 -
Furthermore, the UCI recalls that as a result of concerns previously expressed by the AFLD, it had already conducted an investigation on the treatment of the Astana team. This clearly showed that the Astana team had not been favoured in any way.
Furthermore, the UCI recalls that as a result of concerns previously expressed by the AFLD, it had already conducted an investigation on the treatment of the Astana team. This clearly showed that the Astana team had not been favoured in any way.
http://www.uci.ch/Modules/ENews/ENewsDe ... D%3DMTYxNw
An investigation so secretive, that no findings have been made public?
So secret, that the media had no knowledge of it's existence until now?
Smoke mirrors and the distinct smell of stale cheese.
Pat blowinghard again. Does he really want the Tour to pull out of his calander again, in defence of Astana?
Astana and Pat: He loves me.....he loves me not......he loves me.....he loves me not...
Shack's licence announcement will probably follow shortly, as a result of this."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
jerry3571 wrote:45 mins is good time to get yourself sorted before a drugs test. I'm sure that if anyone drinks enough water then the dilution of the blood is enough to get yourself under the maximum EPO limit. Teams are clever in the extreme and have the best brains to get round the systems which are put in their way.
One thing I've never understood about that logic is that unless you're rigging saline drips the only way to dilute would be drink water which would end up with you being held up while they waited for your urine to fall within parameters to be a valid sample. You going to do that and hope your pee comes out right an hour or two before a stage stage?
If the brains trust is as good as some people tell you, then that sounds like an awful lot being left to chance.
And do they block book the whole team so everyone's got a stand, canula and saline bag at the ready in case it's them out of the random hat? A canula's not exactly the sort of thing you pop in in a hurry unless you're A&E using rapid infusers to stabilise a patient, is it? And they generally do about a litre of saline in 20 mins I think.
So allowing for the testers arriving, announcing themselves to the relevant people, staff going to find them there's hardly a huge amount of time. Or are we saying they get the equivalent of a theatrical 5 minute call stretched to 45 mins notice that the testers are heading over?0 -
Point is, the 'random' test names were being given out 30 minutes early and then the tests weren't being done for an hour after the stage finish. Plenty of time to nullify a 'random' test0
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Cmon Blazing this ain't about Astana. Follow the money.___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
dennisn wrote:calvjones wrote:Vino wrote:Why the outrage?
Cycling is a demonstrably fraudulent sport where Champions use PEDs witth the implicit support of its governing body who fail to implement rules that wouold catch cheats and then fail to support exisitng rules.
This isnt new. Its still a great sport and readilly accesible to most Most Europeans and North Americans. Theres too much money involved for it to be pure. Riders dont owe any of you anything, if you dont like it take up Triathlon oh hang on that might not be free of PEDs either.
Is still good calves
AVE
Vino, you are dennisn and I claim my 5 bucks.
I'm Vino???? Wait a minute when did this happen??? And if true, where's my split of the 5 bucks?
No Dennis is not the Vino. I am Vino and you have never met me so you dont understand The Calves.
Ave0 -
5 weeks ago I smashed my elbow up; hence the amount of time I have for this :? .
I had 2 drips in me at once which were given to me at different rates; a litre each taking about 20 mins to half an hour.
Drips are in common use in the Peleton as rehydration can be an issue after a hot stage in big races. It is officially said to replace fluids, salts and B12. This gear is all part of the set up of a top Team.
I guess if you bolt a litre or two of water and get yourself re-hooked up then I don't see a problem with this being a viable way to get around the problems of one of the substances.
Also, another problem being that the testers are usually behind the pace in testing for specific drugs. In a drugs raid in Italy a new EPO was found a few months ago. Testing is usually a futile gesture.
For EPO type drugs, the Haemocrit test can restrict the amount of drugs used hence this technique of flooding your blood levels reducing your red blood cell count.
I think maybe someone in this specific Team is getting the nod and letting on which riders are being picked out for that day. The targetted rider can then come in from the finish, get rigged up, get tested by a Team Soigneur, let out and be under the doping limit. Teams do their own testing of course so they have the gear.
Otherwise, otherwise, otherwise... Bruyneel is a master genius and motivator without comparison. He alone can dictate who wins the Tour de France above anyone else. This is done by his Jedi skills honed over many years in the battle of the Clones (...unlikely indeed...)
If anyone knows how Bruyneel is able to dictate 190 riders in July so that his one guy alone wins each year (without any other Team members ever being tested positive) then please let on. I have no other hunches other than he (may have) been dishing out brown envelopes.
-Jerry
PS- This is all theory crap above so don't put me on the Troll list, Mr Armstrong!
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving”- Albert Einstein
"You can't ride the Tour de France on mineral water."
-Jacques Anquetil0 -
anyone seen the bike snob nyc's latest blog? not wanting to get into the ins and outs of drug testing and evading testers, it made me chuckle...
http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2009/10 ... nt-of.html
the section in question...
If you follow the Tour de France, you know that one of the most compelling things about it is that it's a bargain. Whereas most sporting events last for a few hours and result in one winner and one loser, the Tour lasts like the whole summer and yields multiple winners in a variety of jersey colorways. Not only that, but after the race is over and the "final" results are in, then the various agencies start delving into all the blood and urine, which is not only a sport in itself but can also sometimes result in a whole new set of winners. Really, it's the sports fan's equivalent of shopping at Costco--you're practically buying sporting drama wholesale.
As such, it should come as no surprise that ITTET the French anti-doping agency is doing its best to please the penny-pinching cycling fan by discrediting two-thirds of the podium from this year's race.
According to the article, "UCI inspectors intervened allowing Astana riders an extra 45 minutes before testing," which meant that "the unexpected nature of anti-doping tests did not exist on the Tour." While I suppose Armstrong and Contador might have used that extra time to set up their "Whizzinators," I still can't imagine how anybody would think a drug test would come as a surprise to Armstrong or Contador or really any highly-placed rider in the Tour de France under any circumstances. Contador won two stages and wore the yellow jersey for seven days; I don't think he needed an informant to warn him that he might get tested. That would be like coming home and twirling a used condom around your finger like a lifeguard whistle and not expecting your significant other to ask you whether you've been cheating. And as far as Armstrong, everybody knows he gets tested all the time because whenever they come for his urine he Tweets about it. Really, Tweeting and tinkling is all he does. So even if they did get a 45 minute warning from the UCI before testing that would just be like Larry King getting a 45 minute warning that he's ugly.point your handlebars towards the heavens and sweat like you're in hell0 -
mfin wrote:
Astana don't actually deny they were treated lightly at all here - just that they asked to be.___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:An investigation so secretive, that no findings have been made public? So secret, that the media had no knowledge of it's existence until now? Smoke mirrors and the distinct smell of stale cheese.
Didn't the AFLD announce after a week of the Tour that the problems they had with the testing procedures had been addressed?0 -
Love Maertens comment about Astana always doing what the testers asked - in this case it was apparently give us a coffee and sign an autograph, please0
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Let's close our eyes and see what happens0
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all show no go wrote:
"The UCI also questioned the motivations of the anti-doping agency's head, Pierre Bordry, accusing him of "seeking the media spotlight."
Agree with this.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Moray Gub wrote:
"The UCI also questioned the motivations of the anti-doping agency's head, Pierre Bordry, accusing him of "seeking the media spotlight."all show no go wrote:Monsieur Bordry is not a happy bunny........
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/f ... tana-23516
Agree with this.
I think what "motivates" both sides is the reason for the current friction.
If the UCI are correct, then both sides are not as far apart as they seem to think."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Moray Gub wrote:all show no go wrote:
"The UCI also questioned the motivations of the anti-doping agency's head, Pierre Bordry, accusing him of "seeking the media spotlight."
Agree with this.
Me too.0 -
Hmm, number of times we've heard from M. Bordry in the last 6 months v number of times Pat the Prat has piped up and made the sport a laughing stock? Pot and kettle springs to mind except one is committed to cleaning up the sport and one is committed to lining his pockets - I know which one I'd rather see in the media spotlight and it isn't the one who sold his ethics and morals to the highest bidder.0
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micron wrote:Hmm, number of times we've heard from M. Bordry in the last 6 months v number of times Pat the Prat has piped up and made the sport a laughing stock? Pot and kettle springs to mind except one is committed to cleaning up the sport and one is committed to lining his pockets - I know which one I'd rather see in the media spotlight and it isn't the one who sold his ethics and morals to the highest bidder.
I agree Bodry is not coming across too well at the moment.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Bordry's comments are being amplified by some. Half of the news this week was announced in July. He's not really sounding off. The report that criticised the UCI is legit and makes good points and it was leaked, Bordry was not shouting about it. But maybe he was the one that leaked it?0
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Kléber wrote:Bordry's comments are being amplified by some. Half of the news this week was announced in July. He's not really sounding off. The report that criticised the UCI is legit and makes good points and it was leaked, Bordry was not shouting about it. But maybe he was the one that leaked it?
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... ifies.html
Read this and tell me that Bodry wasnt shouting about it ? Released and leaked by his orginisation for maxiumum effect . Saying the report makes good points is quite a leap of faith.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Kléber wrote:Bordry's comments are being amplified by some. Half of the news this week was announced in July. He's not really sounding off. The report that criticised the UCI is legit and makes good points and it was leaked, Bordry was not shouting about it. But maybe he was the one that leaked it?
Why did the lab only find only one team guilty of seriously delaying testing? They single out one team. On the average, of the 20 or so teams, there must be other teams at it, no?0 -
That's true. I'd read a slightly different account, that the report had gone to the UCI and WADA earlier, it got leaked and so the AFLD published the whole thing.Moray Gub wrote:http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/399884/uci-vs-afld-war-of-words-intensifies.html
Read this and tell me that Bodry wasnt shouting about it ? Released and leaked by his orginisation for maxiumum effect . Saying the report makes good points is quite a leap of faith.
I'm not saying Bordry is perfect, just that some things are being amplified.
To Dave_1: I don't know about the other teams. Even if other teams were doing this, there's no safety in numbers. Tests need to be done properly and equally.0 -
I applaud Bordrys mission, but all this "we will retest the -08 samples" garbage makes it look like he wants to be in the spotlight, and bring cycling in a bad light unnecessarily, when there's no need or proof for it. Why all the buzz and hints when finally there was nothing coming out? Certainly didn't do cycling any favors.
Take it with a grain of salt, but here is a reply from a UCI inspector
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1894/ ... -Tour.aspx0 -
The point of the retests was to refine the existing CERA test - so riders who were found to be using CERA, like Ricco, tested positive again. That was all the AFLD were looking for as Bordry made quite clear. After all, you don't really think he called a press conference and was handed the results just before he stepped up to the mic do you?
I hope Mr Broadbent enjoyed his coffee :roll:0 -
micron wrote:The point of the retests was to refine the existing CERA test - so riders who were found to be using CERA, like Ricco, tested positive again. That was all the AFLD were looking for as Bordry made quite clear. After all, you don't really think he called a press conference and was handed the results just before he stepped up to the mic do you?
I hope Mr Broadbent enjoyed his coffee :roll:
No, but reading what Bordry said earlier I was somehow expecting an avalanche of positives, due to the retesting. German sites even named different riders.
I don't see much difference between Bordry and good ol' Pat, they just have very different agendas. One paints the sport dirty as hell even if his own lab/tests can't back him up, the other one takes bribes and hides his head in the sand.
But I definitely go with Bordry, he at least tries to clean up the sport, something Pat doesn't even bother.
Is it just me, how ridiculous timing are the positive riders by the UCI? Just after AFLD lambasted them....0
