'Running' fitness

GavH

Anyone had a recent return to running after a long lay off and found it a struggle?

After a couple of attempts at 3 miles, I'm struggling to run at a reasonable pace (ave just under 9 min miles!) but worse than that, my Avg HR is 92 and 91% respectively!

I've never been what you'd call a 'runner' although I did do a couple of 1/2 Marathons a few years back (then again I was 7lb 10oz once but I'm not anymore) and never really had any trouble with steady state stuff but this recent performance has been a bit shocking.

I've been training with HRMs for the last 12 years so I'm happy with my Max HR etc. I just can't understand why I'm struggling so much at such a slow pace; I don't have the same problem on the bike.

Anybody else encountered this and have any advice or is it simply a case of go out and run more!?

nasahapley

Hi Gav,

I'm not sure what you mean by a 'long lay off', but I know what you mean about feeling sluggish when going back to running. If I'm really into my cycling at a given time then I can go up to a month between runs, and the first few back do feel like bloody hard work - leaden legs, breathing not quite right etc, but it all comes back fairly quickly after that. On the other hand, I also find that I can take a break from cycling (as I often do over winter, when I do more running), get back on the bike and be pretty much as bike fit as where I left off.

So I guess my advice (which is based solely on my own experience and probably not worth much), is just keep running and you'll get back to where you were soon enough.

Question for you: with your HRM, do you find you can keep a higher % of your max up for longer when running as opposed to cycling? I find I can average around 90% of max HR over a two hours, but couldn't get near this on the bike!

punctureboy

don't worry about it. take it steady and it will come back in no time. even paula radcliffe started back training after giving birth using the run/ walk method. you lose it quick, but if you've had it, it will come back quick too.

Edwin

You did half marathons when you were 7lb 10oz - were you a baby?!!

But seriously, yes, running involves suffering majorly for most cyclists. I find it smashes my legs up really badly, so start with a short distance and allow plenty of time to recover before running again. I start with 1.5 miles after a layoff, and only go once or twice a week, building it up slowly. I've also noticed that if I increase the distance too much then I actually get slower because I've basically damaged myself!

dave milne

I've just done a half marathon and the training came after no running for about 3 years. It hurt like absolute hell, I didn't have an issue with the pace but it absolutely ruined my legs, I am in no hurry to do any running again

squeeler

I'd not done any running for years since I started cycling but I recently decided to cross train by running 3.5 miles a couple of times a week. It started off as absolute hell: shin splints, calf pains, numb feet and all sorts of aches, I am carrying a couple of surplus stone of weight though :oops: My unscientific advice would be to just stick at it, take it steady and it's amazing how quickly you start to improve.

Edwin

I'm not convinced running and cycling mixes all that well. If you need any confirmation of this, try doing a triathlon. I hammered it on the bike section and got chronic stitch on the run, it was one of the most painful things I've ever done.
Incidentally, whenever I tell cycling clubmates that I run, they look at me like I'm absolutely stark raving mad. 'Why on earth would you want to do that?' is the normal response.

afcbian

On the contrary. I find running and cycling seem to mix with me very well.
I got back into cycling back in May of this year having done very little for years and years.
After a few months beginning at 8-10 miles on my MTB I gradually built up to regularly doing 15 or so miles 2-3 times a week. At this point my mate also talked me into a 10k road run challenge.
over the next 6 or so weeks I started off running a mile then added half a mile a week to my route.
I did my first, and only, 10k in late August in just under an hour having not run at all for approx 10 years.
I now run every week (just once to save the knees) about 5 miles and go out twice on the MTB or road bike and cover anything anything upto 40 miles each ride.
I have lost 2 stone and couldn't be happier. Every day I get fitter and fitter.
My only suggestion is to take it steady and give any injuries time to heal properly.

I have even signed up for a mini triathlon on Oct 25 and a 10 mile road run on Nov 22

I think the cross training side of things has got to be a good thing hasn't it ?

Edwin

For general fitness, yes, but I don't think running helps cycling specific performance.

afcbian

Edwin wrote:

For general fitness, yes, but I don't think running helps cycling specific performance.

cycling performance is partially down to general fitness anyway so surely anything that improves general fitness helps cycling too..............or am i missing something ?

nasahapley

afcbian wrote:

I think the cross training side of things has got to be a good thing hasn't it ?

I'd say so. If your sole aim in life is to be as good on a bike as you possibly can be and you're happy to do nothing but cycling then that's great. I tend to get a bit bored if I stick at one thing for too long so I run as well. A fair few cyclists will think you're mad for running; 'think of your knees' etc, but then a fair few cyclists end up with osteopenia or osteoporosis due to lack of load-bearing exercise too. A few very short runs a week, or at least some form of load bearing exercise, will stand you in good stead in the long run.

dodgy

I've recently taken up running, I just do one run a week and sometimes I do a shuttle run (MSFT multi stage fitness test) on a Friday too. I find that if I do that I don't get sore legs the next day like I would if I only ran once every blue moon. I am in no way a natural runner, but I can now easily knock out 4 or miles at aoubt 7mph average speed.
It's a great overall conditioner, but I don't think it transfers very well to cycling fitness. I plan to do more over the winter when it's grotty outside.

Edwin

afcbian wrote:

Edwin wrote:

For general fitness, yes, but I don't think running helps cycling specific performance.

cycling performance is partially down to general fitness anyway so surely anything that improves general fitness helps cycling too..............or am i missing something ?

Well, up to a point, it will help. Once your fitness is already up to a good level, then I don't think running will help you get any faster on the bike, which is where my priority lies. Of course, it's better than doing nothing, and it should improve your cardiovascular system, but it depends what kind of level you are at and what you want to acheive. If you already do ten to fifteen hours a week training on a bike, then trying to run as well will probably just make you knackered - that's my experience anyway.

GavH

Thanks for the replies guys, sounds like I just need to get back into it. The Belfast Marathon in May 10 may still be a realistic objective!

Nasa: I must admit to being surprised by the stats from my last 2 runs, in each case over 77% of my run time was >90% HR. NO WAY could I sustain that on the bike. However, with the bike bearing more weight than running, I suppose it takes more of an effort in a trained cyclist to get to 90% in the first place? Not sure what the science is but like I said, very surprised that I could spend so long >90% for a mere 3 mile run.

jibberjim

Most of the year I've been off running, other than a once a month 3mile hard race (my running clubs handicap) and a once a month hill training session. And an occasional other run.

I started again after switching to a job without the flexi hours so losing cycling, and my training runs are faster than ever. The problems are much more to do with distance rather than speed.

Threshold heart rates have changed though - they've lowered.

Edwin

That's interesting, I'm the opposite - I can run distance, but can't get any quicker.

andrewgturnbull

Hi GavH.

Two things: Firstly your max hr may well be higher than you think... and your threshold heart rate may be significantly higher running compared to cycling.

I'd use your breathing rate as a more reliable indicator than heart rate. If you're planning a spring marathon then you need to be building up the miles at a pace well under threshold. In terms of breathing this means that you should be able to carry out a conversation with only a little difficulty while running.

Edwin - the main benefit of running to cyclists is to keep the weight under control. That's always going to make you faster! You need to be able to avoid injuries though...

Cheers, Andy

FatLarry

I ran a marathon in April 2008 before deciding to get into cycling.

I haven't really run much since then, beyond the odd five milers - most of my effort has gone into cycling and taking part in sportives. And I've found those five milers slow and hard.

I entered the ballot for next years' London Marathon, more out of habit than any real desire. Today I got my confirmation of entry.

Oh bollocks...

Edwin

Andy - I know running should help keep the weight down, but I've actually found the opposite. Running makes me hungry, and I've actually eaten more since I started running more. I'm doing the Birmingham Half Marathon next weekend, then after that I'm going to have a complete rest for a week or two, then get into winter training.
IMO swimming is the best cross training, I can do a lot of it without gettting injured, it works the upper body as well, and I actually find it relaxing. Running is just unpleasant, and to be honest I can't wait to get the half marathon out of the way!

FatLarry

Edwin

I'm exactly the opposite...!

No matter how much I cycle - near or far, fast or slow, I put on weight. Cycling makes me hungry.

But when I run - the pounds just tumble away. I find I don't need the carbs like I do when I'm cycling.

I'm blessed with some beautiful places to run, at work in Henley and around the North Hampshire countryside. Which makes it all very nice and therapeutic.

Put me in a swimming pool and I just get bored very quickly and eventually start to sink.

Horses for courses, I guess.

knedlicky

I’ve had three 6-8 months lay-offs from running in the last 12 years, all due to injury, and from my experience I think the secret in getting quickly back to your previous level is (a) to not to put on weight during the lay-off, and (b) when fit again, get back to your previous training routine as soon as possible.
I did this during the first two lay-offs but failed to do so after my last injury, and as a result I’m still struggling to re-achieve my speed (distance is less of a problem).

I find running and cycling a good mix, and under the general fitness benefits I’d include better cardio-v system and lung efficiency, and improvements in the stabilisation of the upper body and of the knees, both of which are important in running and also relevant to cycling.
Another good carry-over from running is that it can help learning how to cope with long effort, i.e. help improve endurance. During running the body is sooner confronted with releasing fuel and balancing hydration, and better training of the body in these functions is obviously of benefit when cycling too.
I think learning how to cope mentally with the more constant effort required in long-distance running also helps endurance in cycling too.

amck111

GavH - I just started getting back into the running 2 or so weeks ago and yes I found it extremely difficult getting back into it again. However, the last time I was out it all seem to fall into place and was even enjoying my run, at a reasonable pace too. Give it a few weeks and you'll be fine.

As for the Belfast marathon, definitely do it! I did it last year for the first time, was a brilliant day and really gives you something to train for over the winter. That said I'll not be doing it to myself this year!

lukasran

hey guys i would like to get into running more as want to do some triathlons. my first event was the great north run two weeks ago. a reasonably time of 1hr45 but i had compleatly underestimated the distance maybe psychologicall cause it has "half" in the name. last three miles legs were dead. however my knees really hurt afterwards, IT band. and its affecting my cycling now you say running strengthens the knees. after how long will i have granit knees? v painful at mo but getting better.