Should we do something about the feral ones??

berliner

Surely the days of an objective, intelligent argument reasoning that this sort of behaviour is because of bad parenting/ education is coming to an end.
Claiming that a violent response to these scum would is akin to the Nazis is passé
This was a single Mum with a handicapped child!! The scum involved are basic and only understand basic.
More and more decent people are being penalised and the mood of the nation has changed.
A decent, heavy birching is basic, but the scum will understand and it will give us all a small degree of satisfaction.

passout

If they break the law the police will handle it, if they don't then it's not a problem. In terms of crime prevention then education and job opportunities need to be available for those with the gumption and/or ability to pull themselves out of the underclass. For others a shake up of the benefits system may work better - as Clinton did in the US. But of course we will always have an underclass - we just need to offer a people a way out whilst clamping down on 'false' clamaints.

Personally I don't think that things are as bad now as they were in the 1970s when I grew up.

BigG67

Not specifically aimed at the OP given the actual title of the thread but....

Nearly all the suggestion on here are about what OTHERS should do. National service, police raids, cut benefits, THEY should be better parents etc etc.

So how about making a commitment about what you as an individual can do to improve things? About the youth or inner city programmes that you'll give up time for? We're all cyclists, are we each willing to mentor a group of kids as part of a cycling club? Are we willing to play a roll in the long game that will be needed to turn the issues around?

Hardest part is that the people who we need to affect are the ones who don't want to be helped. There are plenty of easy wins, but they are short term and ulitmately will bare little fruit. We need to keep fighting with those who have given up - yes with "stick and carrot" - but in a long term commitment to raising their expectations and hopes. No Government will be able to fix from the centre and I know I don't do enough and that I need to do more to fix MY society.

There's a great phrase on a building on Davies St W1, that I pass from time to time, it says "Too Many Laws, Too Few Examples".

ride_whenever

You're a bit of a preachy tw@T aren't you!

I'm sure some of the others here do stuff as well. I've mentored kids wanting to learn biking stuff. I stopped and gave my spare tube to a guy with a flat and taught him how to fix a puncture whilst i was at it.

This summer I taught a load of kids how to row, and i volunteer to organise regattas.

People have to want to be helped though.

dilemna

BigG67 wrote:

Not specifically aimed at the OP given the actual title of the thread but....

Nearly all the suggestion on here are about what OTHERS should do. National service, police raids, cut benefits, THEY should be better parents etc etc.

So how about making a commitment about what you as an individual can do to improve things? About the youth or inner city programmes that you'll give up time for? We're all cyclists, are we each willing to mentor a group of kids as part of a cycling club? Are we willing to play a roll in the long game that will be needed to turn the issues around?

Hardest part is that the people who we need to affect are the ones who don't want to be helped. There are plenty of easy wins, but they are short term and ulitmately will bare little fruit. We need to keep fighting with those who have given up - yes with "stick and carrot" - but in a long term commitment to raising their expectations and hopes. No Government will be able to fix from the centre and I know I don't do enough and that I need to do more to fix MY society.

There's a great phrase on a building on Davies St W1, that I pass from time to time, it says "Too Many Laws, Too Few Examples".

Many of these pople and their kids don't want to be helped. All they want to do is sit on their arses and get drunk or annoy their neighbours and fight. These are the people who in other threads have thrown eggs or stones at us while out on the road or on cycle paths. They have also shot at us.

People spend more time choosing a toaster, kettle or flat screen tv than deciding whether they are suitable or ready to have kids.

The point that has already been made that if people have nothing between their ears and nothing in the their wallets, they know if they produce children they will get given a house for life and guaranteed income. Hence all these young teenage mothers with absent partners in housing association properties state funded lifestyles. They all have 6'x4' flat screen tvs costing fowsands, vicious dogs and the money to buy copious amounts of booze, fags and take aways. Put a stop to all this. Cut their benefits now. Only pay benefits to those who have actually paid tax, not those who have contributed nothing.

The police should be regularly harassing trouble maker families and kids who cannot live peacefully and get on with their neighbours like everyone else.

daviesee

dilemna wrote:

BigG67 wrote:

Not specifically aimed at the OP given the actual title of the thread but....

Nearly all the suggestion on here are about what OTHERS should do. National service, police raids, cut benefits, THEY should be better parents etc etc.

So how about making a commitment about what you as an individual can do to improve things? About the youth or inner city programmes that you'll give up time for? We're all cyclists, are we each willing to mentor a group of kids as part of a cycling club? Are we willing to play a roll in the long game that will be needed to turn the issues around?

Hardest part is that the people who we need to affect are the ones who don't want to be helped. There are plenty of easy wins, but they are short term and ulitmately will bare little fruit. We need to keep fighting with those who have given up - yes with "stick and carrot" - but in a long term commitment to raising their expectations and hopes. No Government will be able to fix from the centre and I know I don't do enough and that I need to do more to fix MY society.

There's a great phrase on a building on Davies St W1, that I pass from time to time, it says "Too Many Laws, Too Few Examples".

Many of these pople and their kids don't want to be helped. All they want to do is sit on their arses and get drunk or annoy their neighbours and fight. These are the people who in other threads have thrown eggs or stones at us while out on the road or on cycle paths. They have also shot at us.

People spend more time choosing a toaster, kettle or flat screen tv than deciding whether they are suitable or ready to have kids.

The point that has already been made that if people have nothing between their ears and nothing in the their wallets, they know if they produce children they will get given a house for life and guaranteed income. Hence all these young teenage mothers with absent partners in housing association properties state funded lifestyles. They all have 6'x4' flat screen tvs costing fowsands, vicious dogs and the money to buy copious amounts of booze, fags and take aways. Put a stop to all this. Cut their benefits now. Only pay benefits to those who have actually paid tax, not those who have contributed nothing.
The police should be regularly harassing trouble maker families and kids who cannot live peacefully and get on with their neighbours like everyone else.

A start would be to provide accomodation, heating, water and food to those that genuinely need it - but no cash :evil:

Stewie Griffin

I work in Social Housing. We are so far past the point of no return that it isnt funny.

dilemna

Stewie Griffin wrote:

I work in Social Housing. We are so far past the point of no return that it isnt funny.

Care to enlighten us ............?

teagar

dilemna wrote:

The point that has already been made that if people have nothing between their ears and nothing in the their wallets, they know if they produce children they will get given a house for life and guaranteed income. Hence all these young teenage mothers with absent partners in housing association properties state funded lifestyles. They all have 6'x4' flat screen tvs costing fowsands, vicious dogs and the money to buy copious amounts of booze, fags and take aways. Put a stop to all this. Cut their benefits now. Only pay benefits to those who have actually paid tax, not those who have contributed nothing.

The police should be regularly harassing trouble maker families and kids who cannot live peacefully and get on with their neighbours like everyone else.

What you describe is a symptom, not the cause.

It is society's responsibility to adress what causes that symptom. To just cut them out of society benefits no-one in the long run, and if anything only serves to worsen the problem. Crime and anti-social behaviour are symptoms of society that fails some of the people within it.


What you and others are suggesting on here as far as I'm concerned would only continue to widen the gap between those who can cope with their own lives and those who cannot.

Just by the way, high earner tax evasion costs the government more money than benefit fraud.

finchy

teagar wrote:

High earner tax evasion costs the government more money than benefit fraud... (Think I read that statistic from some research done by Compass).

Between £20 and 30 billion a year is the Treasury's estimate.

Funny how the CBI alway forgot to mention that one when they were telling everyone about how we need to make students pay more because uni education is such a drain on the economy.

teagar

johnfinch wrote:

teagar wrote:

High earner tax evasion costs the government more money than benefit fraud... (Think I read that statistic from some research done by Compass).

Between £20 and 30 billion a year is the Treasury's estimate.

Funny how the CBI alway forgot to mention that one when they were telling everyone about how we need to make students pay more because uni education is such a drain on the economy.

I don't think you'll get too much mileage with the student argument. They seem particuarly unpopular at the moment. I think some parts of the UK are enjoying some serious schadenfreude with the large amount of students graduating into unemployment.

Special K

BigG67 wrote:

Not specifically aimed at the OP given the actual title of the thread but....

Nearly all the suggestion on here are about what OTHERS should do. National service, police raids, cut benefits, THEY should be better parents etc etc.

So how about making a commitment about what you as an individual can do to improve things? About the youth or inner city programmes that you'll give up time for? We're all cyclists, are we each willing to mentor a group of kids as part of a cycling club? Are we willing to play a roll in the long game that will be needed to turn the issues around?

Hardest part is that the people who we need to affect are the ones who don't want to be helped. There are plenty of easy wins, but they are short term and ulitmately will bare little fruit. We need to keep fighting with those who have given up - yes with "stick and carrot" - but in a long term commitment to raising their expectations and hopes. No Government will be able to fix from the centre and I know I don't do enough and that I need to do more to fix MY society.

There's a great phrase on a building on Davies St W1, that I pass from time to time, it says "Too Many Laws, Too Few Examples".

good call and a refreshing contribution to cut some of the reactionary nonsense we tend to come out with on this forum

finchy

teagar wrote:

I don't think you'll get too much mileage with the student argument. They seem particuarly unpopular at the moment. I think some parts of the UK are enjoying some serious schadenfreude with the large amount of students graduating into unemployment.

Speaking from personal experience? If so, I'm sorry to hear that. My brother, step-brother and step-sister have graduated this year, and they're all really struggling to find anything apart from very menial work (not that it's beneath them, but you don't spend years at university to wait on tables). So it's a real shame that the CBI choose this particular time to release crap like this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8263672.stm

a_n_t

teagar wrote:

Just by the way, high earner tax evasion costs the government more money than benefit fraud.

Maybe, but they're unlikely to come round and nick my car stereo.

finchy

a_n_t wrote:

teagar wrote:

Just by the way, high earner tax evasion costs the government more money than benefit fraud.

Maybe, but they're unlikely to come round and nick my car stereo.

And who do you think ends up paying for the shortfall?

Let's say £25 billion a year divided by (for sake of argument) 25 million taxpayers = £1000 per taxpayer. You could buy a lot of car stereos with that.

BigG67

ride_whenever wrote:

You're a bit of a preachy tw@T aren't you!.

nice...OK for you to be insulting, just not the "feral kids".

dilemna

teagar wrote:

dilemna wrote:

The point that has already been made that if people have nothing between their ears and nothing in the their wallets, they know if they produce children they will get given a house for life and guaranteed income. Hence all these young teenage mothers with absent partners in housing association properties state funded lifestyles. They all have 6'x4' flat screen tvs costing fowsands, vicious dogs and the money to buy copious amounts of booze, fags and take aways. Put a stop to all this. Cut their benefits now. Only pay benefits to those who have actually paid tax, not those who have contributed nothing.

The police should be regularly harassing trouble maker families and kids who cannot live peacefully and get on with their neighbours like everyone else.

What you describe is a symptom, not the cause.

It is society's responsibility to adress what causes that symptom. To just cut them out of society benefits no-one in the long run, and if anything only serves to worsen the problem. Crime and anti-social behaviour are symptoms of society that fails some of the people within it.


What you and others are suggesting on here as far as I'm concerned would only continue to widen the gap between those who can cope with their own lives and those who cannot.

Just by the way, high earner tax evasion costs the government more money than benefit fraud.

It's the fact that the State houses these people and throws money at them that makes them aspire to this lifestyte. If there was no house in it for them or generous tap of benefits they wouldn't treat it as a career choice. This is why the UK has the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in Europe. These people haven't the ambition or motivation in their lives to study or work hard to support themselves so decide the only way they are going to get on is to live off the State which means teenage girls getting pregnant and having as many kids as they can to get a house with benefits included thus sponging from taxpayers.

teagar

dilemna wrote:

It's the fact that the State houses these people and throws money at them that makes them aspire to this lifestyte. If there was no house in it for them or generous tap of benefits they wouldn't treat it as a career choice. This is why the UK has the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in Europe. These people haven't the ambition or motivation in their lives to study or work hard to support themselves so decide the only way they are going to get on is to live off the State which means teenage girls getting pregnant and having as many kids as they can to get a house with benefits included thus sponging from taxpayers.

I have to disagree with you, completely. All the people I know my age (21) who have had teenage pregnancies, have had them by mistake or accident - not a premeditated way to get benefit money.

These people have no ambition because society has nothing to give them. They are considered rejects and underclasses by people such as yourselves and have little opportunity, especially given an often chaotic and difficult upbringing, to hold down any reasonable job.

To suggest that the poor who are on benefit are lazy is not only very outdated (sounds like the kind of arguments used to put the poor into the unspeakably horrible work or poorhouses 150 years ago), but also narrowminded and ignorant.

I suggest you go visit and live with someone who is "spunging off the government" and see how they live. It's pretty dire from my experience.

People always want to live comfortabley and happily. People always want to function within society. It is when society lets them down that things go wrong. If people are brought up in homes where the parents can barely cope with themselves, in poverty, are subjected to abuse, then you cannot expect them to function in society like someone who has not had those problems.

The people you slate, the "ferel", are the ones that need help. Not you! You're doing fine! Stop trying to turn the tables by making out you are the one losing out in all of this by suggesting they're taking your "taxpayers money".

The more you hate people, they more they hate you.

daviesee

teagar wrote:

dilemna wrote:

It's the fact that the State houses these people and throws money at them that makes them aspire to this lifestyte. If there was no house in it for them or generous tap of benefits they wouldn't treat it as a career choice. This is why the UK has the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in Europe. These people haven't the ambition or motivation in their lives to study or work hard to support themselves so decide the only way they are going to get on is to live off the State which means teenage girls getting pregnant and having as many kids as they can to get a house with benefits included thus sponging from taxpayers.

I have to disagree with you, completely. All the people I know my age (21) who have had teenage pregnancies, have had them by mistake or accident - not a premeditated way to get benefit money.

These people have no ambition because society has nothing to give them. They are considered rejects and underclasses by people such as yourselves and have little opportunity, especially given an often chaotic and difficult upbringing, to hold down any reasonable job.

To suggest that the poor who are on benefit are lazy is not only very outdated (sounds like the kind of arguments used to put the poor into the unspeakably horrible work or poorhouses 150 years ago), but also narrowminded and ignorant.

I suggest you go visit and live with someone who is "spunging off the government" and see how they live. It's pretty dire from my experience.

People always want to live comfortabley and happily. People always want to function within society. It is when society lets them down that things go wrong. If people are brought up in homes where the parents can barely cope with themselves, in poverty, are subjected to abuse, then you cannot expect them to function in society like someone who has not had those problems.

The people you slate, the "ferel", are the ones that need help. Not you! You're doing fine! Stop trying to turn the tables by making out you are the one losing out in all of this by suggesting they're taking your "taxpayers money".

The more you hate people, they more they hate you.

These are all stereotypes.

I know people brought up in the gutter (so to speak0 that have gone on and done really well. I also know some brought up in "well to do" families that are spongers.
Lazy is lazy regardless of where you start in life.
There is no way we will change this while there is little difference between wages and benefits. I know from direct family experience that for some, getting a job is just not worthwhile.
So, do we cut benefits or raise wages?
Cut benefits and some will struggle to survive.
Raise wages and the UK will price itself out of the world market, jobs will be lost and the need for benefits will increase.

One size fits all cannot work. The lower paid need taxes cut or removed to make working worthwhile and benefits need to be calculated on each individual's circumstances.

This gets away from the original point.

Bad behaviour stems from bad parenting. Money is not the issue. End of.

Stewie Griffin

dilemna wrote:

Stewie Griffin wrote:

I work in Social Housing. We are so far past the point of no return that it isnt funny.

Care to enlighten us ............?

I had typed out a list of just my most recent experiences but decided that you will all have to wait for my memoirs to be published 8) .

tebbit

The poor and the underclass are two different things, people can work and be poor, not necessarially the same thing. Nothing wrong with people being poor, that is a totally different thing to being a member of the underclass.

As for feeling sorry for the under class sod that one.

Frank the tank

pepelepew wrote:

I think we're well past the tipping point. The majority of these children come from families where their parents don't make a positive contribution to society. No concept of responsibilty. Don't want to work? Fine, the state will pay. Nowhere to live? The state will give you a house.

Want more money? Go to the doctors and say you're so depressed you can't work. You'll get a sicknote and some nice smarties that will dumb you down. Double bonus. Have some kids as well and you'll be quids in. Look after them and show them right from wrong? F@ck that, I'll just drink White Lightning and watch Jeremy Kyle. They can get on with it. Feed them? "Christ no, got to get me a 42 inch plasma with a £1 meter on the back. Then, when the meter is full I unfortunately get 'burgled' and the only thing that's taken is £140 in £1 coins".

I could go on and on. Yes, really! :evil:

We unfortunately have a society where a sizeable proprtion take no responsibility for their actions and feel that they can have what they want and do nothing for it. Prison doesn't frighten them, they treat it like a holiday.

Some people quite rightly deserve to be looked after by the state. But not all of them!

Rant over.

Evacuate the Isle of man and dump all the wasters/freeloaders/workshy on there with no kind of support what-so-ever and let them get on with it. Telling them if everyone on the mainland took their point of view (there's no need to work I just get money and things given to me) this is the sort of society you would end up living in.

Nothing would get built, manufactured, repaired. There would be nothing. The I of M would become an awful place to try and exist but it would be there own made utopia 'cos you wouldn't have to do a thing. Oh and if you get ill you die.

Anonymous

Frank the tank wrote:

pepelepew wrote:

I think we're well past the tipping point. The majority of these children come from families where their parents don't make a positive contribution to society. No concept of responsibilty. Don't want to work? Fine, the state will pay. Nowhere to live? The state will give you a house.

Want more money? Go to the doctors and say you're so depressed you can't work. You'll get a sicknote and some nice smarties that will dumb you down. Double bonus. Have some kids as well and you'll be quids in. Look after them and show them right from wrong? F@ck that, I'll just drink White Lightning and watch Jeremy Kyle. They can get on with it. Feed them? "Christ no, got to get me a 42 inch plasma with a £1 meter on the back. Then, when the meter is full I unfortunately get 'burgled' and the only thing that's taken is £140 in £1 coins".

I could go on and on. Yes, really! :evil:

We unfortunately have a society where a sizeable proprtion take no responsibility for their actions and feel that they can have what they want and do nothing for it. Prison doesn't frighten them, they treat it like a holiday.

Some people quite rightly deserve to be looked after by the state. But not all of them!

Rant over.

Evacuate the Isle of man and dump all the wasters/freeloaders/workshy on there with no kind of support what-so-ever and let them get on with it. Telling them if everyone on the mainland took their point of view (there's no need to work I just get money and things given to me) this is the sort of society you would end up living in.

Nothing would get built, manufactured, repaired. There would be nothing. The I of M would become an awful place to try and exist but it would be there own made utopia 'cos you wouldn't have to do a thing. Oh and if you get ill you die.

Then Nuke 'em.

ShredBadger

It is frustrating when you have to deal with people who think that the world owes the. Something! This happened to me at work once

chav: don't the nhs pay for it?
Me: unfortunatley you're not due one on the nhs for another year!
Chav: But I get benefits!
Me repeating again that their nhs entitlement is only valid every 2 years!
Chav: what happens if you just let me have it for free Anyway? They don't need to know!
Again I have to explain that the paperwork has to go to the nhs and blah blah blah!
To which point he actually says that if he see's me around town he's gonna stab me!

I only work in an opticians, but I do get to see what sort of people claim benefits, like disability benefit when they're just overweight! And actually have a take home more than me! Which is extremely frustrating! Especially the ones who are proud of the fact they are meaningless lumps of flesh who bring nothing worthwhile to society!

dilemna

teagar wrote:

dilemna wrote:

It's the fact that the State houses these people and throws money at them that makes them aspire to this lifestyte. If there was no house in it for them or generous tap of benefits they wouldn't treat it as a career choice. This is why the UK has the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in Europe. These people haven't the ambition or motivation in their lives to study or work hard to support themselves so decide the only way they are going to get on is to live off the State which means teenage girls getting pregnant and having as many kids as they can to get a house with benefits included thus sponging from taxpayers.

I have to disagree with you, completely. All the people I know my age (21) who have had teenage pregnancies, have had them by mistake or accident - not a premeditated way to get benefit money.

These people have no ambition because society has nothing to give them. They are considered rejects and underclasses by people such as yourselves and have little opportunity, especially given an often chaotic and difficult upbringing, to hold down any reasonable job.

To suggest that the poor who are on benefit are lazy is not only very outdated (sounds like the kind of arguments used to put the poor into the unspeakably horrible work or poorhouses 150 years ago), but also narrowminded and ignorant.

I suggest you go visit and live with someone who is "spunging off the government" and see how they live. It's pretty dire from my experience.

People always want to live comfortabley and happily. People always want to function within society. It is when society lets them down that things go wrong. If people are brought up in homes where the parents can barely cope with themselves, in poverty, are subjected to abuse, then you cannot expect them to function in society like someone who has not had those problems.

The people you slate, the "ferel", are the ones that need help. Not you! You're doing fine! Stop trying to turn the tables by making out you are the one losing out in all of this by suggesting they're taking your "taxpayers money".

The more you hate people, they more they hate you.

Teagar at your tender age of 21 you are indeed naive and have a lot to learn. But this is not your fault. Time will show you. Trust me.

teagar

dilemna wrote:

teagar wrote:

dilemna wrote:

It's the fact that the State houses these people and throws money at them that makes them aspire to this lifestyte. If there was no house in it for them or generous tap of benefits they wouldn't treat it as a career choice. This is why the UK has the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in Europe. These people haven't the ambition or motivation in their lives to study or work hard to support themselves so decide the only way they are going to get on is to live off the State which means teenage girls getting pregnant and having as many kids as they can to get a house with benefits included thus sponging from taxpayers.

I have to disagree with you, completely. All the people I know my age (21) who have had teenage pregnancies, have had them by mistake or accident - not a premeditated way to get benefit money.

These people have no ambition because society has nothing to give them. They are considered rejects and underclasses by people such as yourselves and have little opportunity, especially given an often chaotic and difficult upbringing, to hold down any reasonable job.

To suggest that the poor who are on benefit are lazy is not only very outdated (sounds like the kind of arguments used to put the poor into the unspeakably horrible work or poorhouses 150 years ago), but also narrowminded and ignorant.

I suggest you go visit and live with someone who is "spunging off the government" and see how they live. It's pretty dire from my experience.

People always want to live comfortabley and happily. People always want to function within society. It is when society lets them down that things go wrong. If people are brought up in homes where the parents can barely cope with themselves, in poverty, are subjected to abuse, then you cannot expect them to function in society like someone who has not had those problems.

The people you slate, the "ferel", are the ones that need help. Not you! You're doing fine! Stop trying to turn the tables by making out you are the one losing out in all of this by suggesting they're taking your "taxpayers money".

The more you hate people, they more they hate you.

Teagar at your tender age of 21 you are indeed naive and have a lot to learn. But this is not your fault. Time will show you. Trust me.

No need to be patronising. I wasn't aware that being 21 means that I have no legitimate opinion on the grounds of naivety.

Saying I am naive just because of my age is hardly a convincing argument. I could just as easily say you're probably too far past being a teenage to be able to have a realistic opinion of them. But I don't.

guilliano

Easy fix number 1: Give vouchers that are only valid for decent food instead of part of the benefits...... can't buy fags/baccy or alcohol with the vouchers

Easy fix number 2: If the person is deemed able to work (even if they are wheelchair bound) any kind of state aid is dependant on doing a job that is necessary, such as graffiti cleaning, litter picking, database compilation, envelope sticking...... anything that is either necessary for local council, or for local companies unable to find suitable workers (the company could part fund while the job is being done)

As for prisons..... make them a place of punishment. No TV, radio, playstation etc in cells. Whilst inside all prisoners have educational needs assessments and are trained to do whatever jobs the country is struggling to fill. On release they either take these jobs or stay in prison, but with no priviledges.

Anonymous

teagar wrote:

dilemna wrote:

teagar wrote:

dilemna wrote:

It's the fact that the State houses these people and throws money at them that makes them aspire to this lifestyte. If there was no house in it for them or generous tap of benefits they wouldn't treat it as a career choice. This is why the UK has the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in Europe. These people haven't the ambition or motivation in their lives to study or work hard to support themselves so decide the only way they are going to get on is to live off the State which means teenage girls getting pregnant and having as many kids as they can to get a house with benefits included thus sponging from taxpayers.

I have to disagree with you, completely. All the people I know my age (21) who have had teenage pregnancies, have had them by mistake or accident - not a premeditated way to get benefit money.

These people have no ambition because society has nothing to give them. They are considered rejects and underclasses by people such as yourselves and have little opportunity, especially given an often chaotic and difficult upbringing, to hold down any reasonable job.

To suggest that the poor who are on benefit are lazy is not only very outdated (sounds like the kind of arguments used to put the poor into the unspeakably horrible work or poorhouses 150 years ago), but also narrowminded and ignorant.

I suggest you go visit and live with someone who is "spunging off the government" and see how they live. It's pretty dire from my experience.

People always want to live comfortabley and happily. People always want to function within society. It is when society lets them down that things go wrong. If people are brought up in homes where the parents can barely cope with themselves, in poverty, are subjected to abuse, then you cannot expect them to function in society like someone who has not had those problems.

The people you slate, the "ferel", are the ones that need help. Not you! You're doing fine! Stop trying to turn the tables by making out you are the one losing out in all of this by suggesting they're taking your "taxpayers money".

The more you hate people, they more they hate you.

Teagar at your tender age of 21 you are indeed naive and have a lot to learn. But this is not your fault. Time will show you. Trust me.

No need to be patronising. I wasn't aware that being 21 means that I have no legitimate opinion on the grounds of naivety.

Saying I am naive just because of my age is hardly a convincing argument. I could just as easily say you're probably too far past being a teenage to be able to have a realistic opinion of them. But I don't.

you just did,

bigflangesmallsprocket

Years ago I worked for a company that provided training and work experience for the unemployed, so I understand Stewie Griffins reluctance to elaborate on his experiences. For a start you'll get a mixture of the genuinely needy and the professional doley, and to maintain professionalism you cannot differentiate between the two, even when it's so obvious it's painful not to be able to tell someone to just f@(9 Off and stop scrounging! That professionalism also extends to client confidentiality. And it can also be dangerous! I recall a client who, within minutes of starting a work placement had an argument with his placement provider and stormed off...didn't report back to us, so we couldn't find him another placement or make alternative arrangements...and disappeared and didn't sign on for nearly a month...so we had no choice but to return his paperwork to the employment services...and obviously, as he hadn't signed on or contacted his jobcentre, his JSA was suspended. The trouble was, this chap was a neighbour of mine, and blamed me personally for stopping his payments, which I had nothing to do with...and he came after me with a baseball bat...nice, considering that as my neighbour I had gone out of my way to save his bacon, trying to contact him at home for nearly a week before returning his papers, something he was blissfully unaware of while he was swanning round claiming extra money for a placement he wasn't attending!

Sometimes these folks are quite blatent about whether theyre actually looking for work or not, but theres nothing the employment services can do, they can be extremely obstructive but simply making the statement that they want a job seems to protect them from suspension of benefits. If you're an Employment Services adviser you need PROOF that they're not genuine before you can stop their benefits or you're liable to find yourself in deep trouble. Imagine all the scenarios: obviously there'd be an appeal, then the accusation of lack of help, quite possibly the accusation of some kind of discrimination or vindictiveness, and as an overworked advisor that'll make a lot of extra work for you, taking up time that could be used helping those who actually want that help! And of course, if, as an 100% committed professional you acted on all of your suspicions, then you'd get a lot of angry folks with lots of time on their hands and no intention of finding a job themselves, but perfectly willing to make your job as difficult as possible in the pursuit of regaining their handouts, and maybe even trying to cost you your job.

Anonymous

guilliano wrote:

Easy fix number 1: Give vouchers that are only valid for decent food instead of part of the benefits...... can't buy fags/baccy or alcohol with the vouchers

Easy fix number 2: If the person is deemed able to work (even if they are wheelchair bound) any kind of state aid is dependant on doing a job that is necessary, such as graffiti cleaning, litter picking, database compilation, envelope sticking...... anything that is either necessary for local council, or for local companies unable to find suitable workers (the company could part fund while the job is being done)

As for prisons..... make them a place of punishment. No TV, radio, playstation etc in cells. Whilst inside all prisoners have educational needs assessments and are trained to do whatever jobs the country is struggling to fill. On release they either take these jobs or stay in prison, but with no priviledges.

Count me in on that.