1st Afan visit - knee pads?

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Gents, planning my first ever trip to Wales Well excited and a little bit nervous if I'm honest :oops: We are planning two rides, Whites Level and Penhydd. Do you think I need knee pads or similar for these runs? Rumour has it that you tend to push yourself that little bit more in Wales and thus pads are recommended...

...your thoughts and experiences, please

RealMan

I've also got my first trip to Wales planned soon, and we're going to Afan as well. Planning to do as many of the rides as we can do (hopefully all).

So I'm also interested - I know I don't need knee pads, but how technical is it?

MountainPete

I've never used knee pads and I've been alright! It goes down to personal taste reallly - I will probably start wearing them when I smash my knee on some of that nasty Welsh rock.

The technicality varies really - I really enjoy it all, but the last descent of Whites (which is utterly brilliant) can get quite tiring on the arms and involves a lot of fast steps over rocks and roots, with a few switchbacks thrown in. That pretty much describes most of the routes; I haven't been for a year now, but from what I remember, the uphills are mostly fairly long climbs with some rooty/rocky sections to negotiate. The downs vary from really very fast bermed descents to fast rooty and rocky runs with switchbacks and trees in the way.

Enjoy!

RealMan

http://www.bikesr4riding.com/2009/09/27 ... tes-level/

Looks fun, but I agree - nothing mental.

paulscutt

ride afan and glyncorrwg quite a bit - usually wear my 661 d30 evo knee pads - no real need for elbow pads in my mind though and normal helmet all the way - you do seem some people on xc/am bikes w/ full face's - NO NEED! lol

andrewjoseph

Penhydd is the easiest of the routes, I take school kids around there with no need for pads.

Whites level is a different ball game, i wouldn't take kids there, you can get out of shape fast and some of the drops, steps and rocks can do some damage.

If you are a competant rider then most of the routes are quite do-able without pads, if you push your envelope and get it wrong you may be glad of them.

Saying that, I don't wear pads, but I've not done whites for some time.

MountainPete

Oh and look out for 'Hidden Valley' - it's one of my favourite pieces of singletrack ever!

chrisga

No need for knee pads if you are a reasonably competant rider at Afan.

stumpyjon

I love all this no need for pads if you're a competant rider rubbish :roll: . Everyone is capable of making mistakes, having a snakebite at speed, hitting a loose rock etc.

I wear knee pads at Afan, not because I expect to fall off (in fact the only time I have come off at Afan was when I wasn't wearing pads, a few feet from the end of White's level :oops: , and I bashed my knees and elbows), but to protect me if I overcook something. There's a lot of rock, trees and generally pointy things to land on, even at slow speed. IMHO wear them, others do so you won't be out of place, can make the difference between getting back on the bike or being stretchered off if you stop concentrating for 2 seconds. There are accidents at Afan (someone on here broke their collar bone earlier this year after a momentary lapse), they wouldn't included ambulance extraction points on the maps otherwise.

Northwind

If you're riding for 2 days, pads make a lot of sense since even a really minor fall can spoil your weekend. It's one thing to limp home after a one day ride and put your feet up for a week but totally different if you end up sat in a B&B all day while your mates go and have fun.

It's a personal choice of course but if you're planning to ride an unfamiliar trail with any commitment, pads make more sense than usual since things can surprise you.

andrewjoseph

stumpyjon wrote:

I love all this no need for pads if you're a competant rider rubbish :roll: . Everyone is capable of making mistakes, having a snakebite at speed, hitting a loose rock etc.
....

I agree, so lets include wearing pads: riding from the car to the start of the trail, or down the pub. or put the pads on before you get out of the car in case you fall over, oer even wear them to bed in case you fall down the stairs going for a pee.

My point was some trails at afan are not especially technical or rooty/rocky so do not require extra care or protection above and beyond riding within your abilities. Other trails are more dangerous, but are not black runs, (apart from the black run at the top of whites/skyline).

bomberesque

I don't but maybe should, many do.

The climbs are quite extended and tend to be of the one big one per ride variety. I've seen several people pack their shin/knee guards for the climbs then put them on at the top.

have fun, hope it rains less than when we were there!

Mccraque

got back last night from 3 days in South Wales. And fantasic it was too.

Hat aside, none of us wore pads and nobody had issues...even with a couple of crashes. I have to say that I did think to myself at the black run, as I flew down the rocky section of the black that they would have been a useful addition had I stacked it. Thankfully I didnt .

Wonderful riding, wonderful weather and everyone dead friendly. Love the place.

joshtp

you dont NEED them, but i live in swansea and ride there quite a bit, and have been glad for my knee pads a number of times. i only use knee pads tho, no elbo pads necesary. i would recomend knee pads. the tech levels vary, nothing is too crazy for a desent rider....

joshtp

also loook forward too: Hiden valley, sidewinder, deadsheep gulley, and the second one on penhydd, cant remember what its called...on whites, well i really cant recomend any section over another, they are all incredible in their own way.

Soul Boy

As I get more competent, I push myself harder and the need for protection increases

JayKingFunk

I did 'The Wall' at Afan in August without pads, just a lid.

Only reason I didn't wear pads is because I didn't take any with me as I wasn't planning on doing anything above green/blue routes as I was holidaying with the missus and she's not an experienced rider but she did let me go off and play while she read her book in the cafe!

I always wear pads at trail centers as it gives me more confidence and I don't care what people think about them. I've had off's with and without them and it hurts less with them!!

One thing I will say about 'the wall' route is you need an extra set of lungs! The ascent is very very long and it was a scorching hot day when I went up!!!

J

P-Jay

You don't have to wear them if you don't want.

Afan's as hard or as easy as you want it to be really. I used to ride there quite sedately, fell a few times no problem.

As the skillz grew, so did the speed.

I'm "good" at Afan, like lots of people who live in the area. Knowing the trails, where and when you can throw caution to the wind and take blind obstacles and bends flat out because you know what's on the other side makes your over-all speed much higher.

I usually wear knee/shin / Elbow and lid.

Left my Elbow pads in the Van last time because it was hot and we were "only riding Penhydd" basically took the piss out of it, riding reckless and not giving it the attention it deserved.

Slammed as hard as I ever had anywhere on anything. Broke my left wrist, not too bad but required an op and plate. DESTROYED my right elbow, 6 hour op, big plate, 6 pins, limited use and pain for the rest of my life and WHEN it finally snaps they'll fuse it and I'll never ride any of my MTBs or CBR's again.

IMHO safety kit is down to personal choice, even Helmets. The only person you'll hurt is yourself. But don't be put off my people saying - "such and such is easy," "you don't need this or that", or "no need" knocks at people wearing whatever/wherever.

Safety kit is cheap, certainly compared to what most people on here (myself included) spend on bikes, vehicles for biking, biking holidays, security for bikes etc etc. Are you Liam Killeen? Do you really think a Kg of pads or the extra heat is going to hamper your performance? Are you racing anyway?

It's not a miracle device, my wrist would still be broken and my Elbow probably, but I don't think it would be as bad.

"Normal" breaks take about 6 weeks to heal.

At the moment I've been off my bike since late June, I missed a holiday in Morzine. I had another set of X-rays to be done in December then with luck I'll be able to ride off road, gently, maybe back to trails in March. Probably never DH again.

My elbow hurts constantly, it pops, knocks and cracks when I move it, and I have about half the range of a normal person and a massive scar. Not to mention the plate is right on my outside edge and contacted to what’s left of my "funny bone" so even resting it on my desk feel like smacking my funny bone with a door.

Soul Boy

P-Jay,

A sobering lesson there. I hope you never have to hang up your riding shoes! I wish you the fullest recovery possible.

I was going to post again that you never need a helmet or pads until you fall, but getting padded up mid-crash isn't convenient at all.

I had a big off on Goodwood (Whites Level) the other week. Root sticking out from the side of the trail, after a small rock step down on a corner. I was pretty sketchy through there (chasing down a mate), going fast, a bit off balance, saw the root and got fixated. Front wheel stuck inbetween the root and trail wall, me over the bars and someway down the trail (that part was a blur). I was wearing my 661 arm pads and Kyle Strait Patriots. I got up, momentarily dusted myself down and was back on my mates back wheel by the end of the section. Who knows what 'might' have happended had I not been padded up, but at 37 (with years of MTB under my belt), I'd rather not find out.

Was funny to walk back up the trail to find my bike parked upright, neatly on the trail side thanks to the 'bike rack' style root, but then its easy to laugh when no damage is done.

joshtp

Soul Boy wrote:

P-Jay,

A sobering lesson there. I hope you never have to hang up your riding shoes! I wish you the fullest recovery possible.

I was going to post again that you never need a helmet or pads until you fall, but getting padded up mid-crash isn't convenient at all.

I had a big off on Goodwood (Whites Level) the other week. Root sticking out from the side of the trail, after a small rock step down on a corner. I was pretty sketchy through there (chasing down a mate), going fast, a bit off balance, saw the root and got fixated. Front wheel stuck inbetween the root and trail wall, me over the bars and someway down the trail (that part was a blur). I was wearing my 661 arm pads and Kyle Strait Patriots. I got up, momentarily dusted myself down and was back on my mates back wheel by the end of the section. Who knows what 'might' have happended had I not been padded up, but at 37 (with years of MTB under my belt), I'd rather not find out.

Was funny to walk back up the trail to find my bike parked upright, neatly on the trail side thanks to the 'bike rack' style root, but then its easy to laugh when no damage is done.

U being seriouse? i did almost exactly the same thing just 2 weeks back, flying alog the st, it is in my opinion one of the best sections ever made. when sudenly there was a big stumpy-rooty thing there, i cought my bars on it, sending me and bike into a almost complete 360-table-frontflip(sam pilgrim would have been impressed. it threw me into the trail side, i wasent too badly hurt, just a few cuts and scrapes. if it wasent for my knee pads however i probably wouldnt have a kneecap....

Soul Boy

joshtp/mbukman wrote:

Soul Boy wrote:

P-Jay,

A sobering lesson there. I hope you never have to hang up your riding shoes! I wish you the fullest recovery possible.

I was going to post again that you never need a helmet or pads until you fall, but getting padded up mid-crash isn't convenient at all.

I had a big off on Goodwood (Whites Level) the other week. Root sticking out from the side of the trail, after a small rock step down on a corner. I was pretty sketchy through there (chasing down a mate), going fast, a bit off balance, saw the root and got fixated. Front wheel stuck inbetween the root and trail wall, me over the bars and someway down the trail (that part was a blur). I was wearing my 661 arm pads and Kyle Strait Patriots. I got up, momentarily dusted myself down and was back on my mates back wheel by the end of the section. Who knows what 'might' have happended had I not been padded up, but at 37 (with years of MTB under my belt), I'd rather not find out.

Was funny to walk back up the trail to find my bike parked upright, neatly on the trail side thanks to the 'bike rack' style root, but then its easy to laugh when no damage is done.

U being seriouse? i did almost exactly the same thing just 2 weeks back, flying alog the st, it is in my opinion one of the best sections ever made. when sudenly there was a big stumpy-rooty thing there, i cought my bars on it, sending me and bike into a almost complete 360-table-frontflip(sam pilgrim would have been impressed. it threw me into the trail side, i wasent too badly hurt, just a few cuts and scrapes. if it wasent for my knee pads however i probably wouldnt have a kneecap....

Mine was on Friday 18th of Sept. Thinking back maybe I should have dealt with the root, but I don't tend to carry a hacksaw and adrenaline was flowing, all I wanted to do was get back on it and make up lost ground. I wasn't hurt at all, had to pick off some ferns, and rub off the orange soil. Not sure if its exactly the same place, but it was quite high up on the tail side (looked like an uprooted tree stump). My wheel jammed in and I was 'ejected'. Yeah reckon it could have been high enough to clip a bar. Small world eh?

P-Jay

Goodwood? Is that the one after Energy, with the wood bit at the end- I guess the clues in the name, ha ha.

I love that bit, had a crash there once, got away with murder on that one.

We used to ride there with a bunch of blokes who were much better than us, but as time went on they spent time in the pub and we got better.

One day our two little groups joined up again for a big ride-out, got to Goodwood, I'd been working on getting up to full speed ASAP from the start and pumping/not breaking all the way to the wooded bit, so we shot off about 2m's apart got to the second S bend, they're quick an lightening right-lefters and drop about 1m in the process, tight as a really tight thing.

So I go in at full atttack speed but this guy has a little comfort dab on the way it and I miss his back wheel "just" turned into the bank and flipped over the bars, luckily it was wet so I kinda slid out on the side of the trail. Good fun that one! ha ha.

Soul Boy

P-Jay wrote:

Goodwood? Is that the one after Energy, with the wood bit at the end- I guess the clues in the name, ha ha.

Yup, thats the one. It does encourage you to ride like a loon. A quick sprint off the line to get up to speed, then hang on for all you're worth.

Had a really good ride down Whites. The section just before Energy has a couple of proper rock step downs on the right of the trail, just before the end. You can just ride round them. I missed the first, but hit the second at speed. Now that was a thrill

joshtp

no, def the same root, there is only one that evil! you did it on the friday after the monday i did it! you probably saw some of the large marks in the orange soil i made but put them down to your self! that orange mud is proper weird stuff. i stil have some bits stuck in the grooves of my sunline mushroom grips, not even a jet wash will remove it.....
fun times....fun times

joshtp

Soul Boy wrote:

P-Jay wrote:

Goodwood? Is that the one after Energy, with the wood bit at the end- I guess the clues in the name, ha ha.

Yup, thats the one. It does encourage you to ride like a loon. A quick sprint off the line to get up to speed, then hang on for all you're worth.

Had a really good ride down Whites. The section just before Energy has a couple of proper rock step downs on the right of the trail, just before the end. You can just ride round them. I missed the first, but hit the second at speed. Now that was a thrill

oh yeah, whites has to be one of the best, those step downs are a hoot. i love all the optional tech features on Darkside too. good wood has to be the best for overall flow tho, but perhaps windypoint is my overall fave.

Soul Boy

joshtp/mbukman wrote:

no, def the same root, there is only one that evil! you did it on the friday after the monday i did it! you probably saw some of the large marks in the orange soil i made but put them down to your self! that orange mud is proper weird stuff. i stil have some bits stuck in the grooves of my sunline mushroom grips, not even a jet wash will remove it.....
fun times....fun times

It is a small world. Didn't hang round to see, but on my commute this moring I did notice the orange soil is still on my brake lever (not even sure how it got there, as I said, the bike stayed upright). Real fun times

Heads up to the OP!

slimboyjim

My personal advice is that if it is of concern to you then you should get some - you'd kick yourself if you had an injury having not bought some.

I can fully understand why people don't want pads - as mentioned the biggest factor in whether you come off is whether you are riding within your ability. They can also be very hot and a bit uncomfortable.

However, saying that I (personally) find it very difficult to constantly stay within my limits - it's all too easy to find yourself travelling very fast down a hillside as it's a lot of fun (why else would we do it)! I wouldn't say I'm reckless but I do push my limits, and whilst I'm not going anywhere near as fast as the better riders out there I am regularly travelling at a speed at which an off could have serious consequences (in a place like Afan where rocks are set into the trail this does not have to be that fast for a serious injury if you are unlucky and land in the wrong place).

I went to Afan for the first time around 4-5 months ago after a year or so of riding (ignoring the riding I did as a kid). I had an off on the first day on the last section of the Wall (Zig zag) - I crested a turn only for the front to drift to the side of the trail, stick in the grass and send me head first over the handlebars. I landed on my chest and elbows and slid a could of meters down the slope the other side. I tore up my elbows pretty bad and had to go to hospital that evening to get them scrubbed clean (unpleasant, but the hospital was very, very good! I only waited 15 minutes to be seen on a Saturday but maybe I was lucky...) To this day if I knock my left elbow in a certain way it sends waves of pain up my arm so it obviously hasn't healed brilliantly - maybe a minor fracture? Having been back to ride the Wall again and looking at some of the rocks you go over I feel lucky not to have injured myself more seriously (good job I landed on a down slope as it made me slide rather than stop abruptly with a lot of force transmitted to my arms). I was out again the next day with a new war story though! I don't believe I'd have had any real injury had I had pads so, suffice to say, I now have elbow and knee/shin guards.

Yes I probably look a bit overkill (especially as my usual ride is Cannock!) but if I come off then I'm more likely to come out laughing. The other thing you might want to consider is whether injury would affect you in any other ways you hadn't thought of - I know I couldn't do my job if I suffered a serious long-term injury to my knee or elbow so it makes sense to me to take extra precaution. If you were off work, would you be able to pay your bills/support yourself or your family, etc? I know it's all doom and gloom and worst case scenario but if this is you then anything you can do to minimise that can only be a good thing IMHO.

Saying all that, don't be scared of Afan - it's a great weekend and you really won't be worrying about falling when you're cycling around - you'll be having too much fun. My personal recommendation having rode The Wall (twice), Penhydd and Whites Level is that Whites Level is the best by far. All the technical trail features on the trails I've done are rollable should you not be confident to tackle them at speed so you really don't have much to worry about - don't let the horror stories scare you away! Also, I've never met a frendlier bunch of people - everyone who passes will check if you have enough innertubes if they pass you mid-repair and I'm sure the same would apply injury-wise. Just be sure to repay the favour!

Just quickly I have POC armour which seems pretty good and gets good reviews from what I've seen. Only problem is that it was pretty expensive but then it is certified to motorbike standard! I thought it better to spend a bit extra as I'd be more likely to use it if it was comfortable. I've also heard good things about Race Face Rally FR pads and SixSixOne which tend to be available at sale prices if you don't want to spend £100+.

Afan-wise have a great trip. Take a couple of spare inner tubes for each ride and lots of water if it is even slightly warm - some of those hills are a killer for those of us used to rolling Midlands hills! Oh, and if you're dead set on riding a certain trail just check the website/phone through to check they're all open. When I was there a few weeks ago there was some fairly extensive works going on on the longer of the two Gencorrwig trails (name escapes me) - you don't want to go there only to find half of it is shut...

Safe riding and best wishes for the recovery P-Jay!

TRUFFLER 1

I live not to far from Afan and ride there some times. I now own a pair of leg/knee pads thanks to the red route, one little seaction coming down by a river front wheel kicked up a rock, lets just say rocks and shine's dont mix. Point is do you ever plan when you are going to hurt yourself.

ads4

Well, I've taken the majority advice and ordered some knee pads. I was looking at the 661 Kyle Straits which have some great reviews, then found out I could get a free pair with an MBR subscription...sorted

gregmorris234

I rode Whites on Saturday. Its amazingly teared up because of all the dry weather and the amount of visitors trying to get that last summer ride in like. The end of the Black run is the worst! Really fast though so you should wear knee pads even though I dont.

Northwind

slimboyjim wrote:

Just quickly I have POC armour which seems pretty good and gets good reviews from what I've seen. Only problem is that it was pretty expensive but then it is certified to motorbike standard!

Just as a wee aside, I think all CE body armour for mountainbikes is tested on the motorbike standard, there's not bike ones as far as I know other than for helmets. And possibly for gloves, there was a CE test under consideration for those a few years back but I don't know if it went the course, the motorbike CE glove test would be ridiculous for mtb stuff

But POC stuff's ace anyway...