Another twunt

pedylan

This guy is no twunt.

Read the article. The headline is sensationalist but the argument is well put and spot on.

The author's real target is cyclists (or any road user) who expect other road users to do their thinking for them. The twunts are the road users who don't look behind them and have no idea what other road users are doing. Or are wearing headphones and insulate themselves from the road environment.

Does anyone "deserve" to die, who knows but if the consequences of their obliviousness is being killed then its their fault.

i use headphones on my rural traiing rides but I look around plenty. I never use headphones in city cycling as I believe I need every sense to be alert to the unexpected.

disgruntledgoat

dilemna wrote:

What do cycling headphoners listen to? Chopin's Funeral March?

It's all a bit silly. Wearing head phones whist cycling means you are relying on other road users to make allowances for you if your concentration lapses. Not the best policy really. Cycling you need all your own wits about you to spot the halfwits.

Cycling into a head wind is a dangerous time as often cars qucikly creep u from behind squeezing close by you. As you cannot hear them approaching you cannot give them a swan look which makes them wait or pass nice and wide.

No, i'm not relying on other raod users making allowances. I'm riding in the same manner as when i'm not wearing them. I'm just looking around more and riding more cautiously. I feel more unsafe Time Trialling (where i never wear 'phones), given that I have to swerve across the carriageway when I get ot a roundabout. I'm much more reliant on goodwill of other motorists then.

hoolio

Many motorcyclists actually wear ear plugs because in the long term the wind noise in a motorcycle helmet will permanently damage your hearing. Headphones aren't the problem, and yes, I wear headphones sometimes - they're the sports type that loop over the ear and don't seal the ear canal - they allow plenty of road noise in.

Is it me, or does there seem to be a lot of articles about those pesky cyclists at the moment?
Certainly over this summer I've seen a notable increase in cycle commuters over last year, so I guess as a group we're more visible?
In the last fifteen years of driving I've noticed one thing consistently. Journeys by car are taking longer, costing more, and are generally becoming more of a pain in the arse (where you gonna park when you get there? etc).
So why not blame a cyclist.

Porgy

ride_whenever wrote:

Porgy wrote:

fast as fupp wrote:

Porgy wrote:

fast as fupp wrote:

would you headphoners ride with a blindfold on?

that would be stupid :?

agreed

would you agree that in the main the senses used on the road to detect traffic are sight and hearing?

I have a hearing impairment - connected with autism - so my main sense is sight - in heavy traffic my sense of hearing is worse than useless.

[curious]
Just on a curous aside, if you don't mind me asking, how is it useless? Do you not have aural spacial awareness or something like that? Don't feel you have to expound on it if you don't want to though.

[/curious]

If there's significant noise from more than one source my brain stops making sense of what I hear - it just becomes an irritiating noise - same thing happens at parties and in pubs - so I've always naturally used my eyes to check what's going on around me - and the number of times that I see cyclists come a cropper with other cyclists and peds becasue they've been relying on their ears and not looking properly - sometimes people might as well be blindfolfed imo.

Flambes

Can the people who are anti-headphones come up with a scenario, where, if you as the cyclist wearing headphones and obeying the highway code, could have an accident which could have been avoided by not wearing them?

My "offs" (and I've had a few!) have all been completely non-relatable to headphone use.

gabriel959

I agree with the author of the article 100%. The title though, is a bit misleading and attention-seeker!!!

Porgy

pedylan wrote:

The author's real target is cyclists (or any road user) who expect other road users to do their thinking for them. .

as demanded by the Highway Code.

I'm sorry but responsible road users do try to do the thinking for others - I pride myself as a cyclist and as a driver that I have many times been able to avoid accidents purely by being able pre-empt stupid behaviour by others.

Why do motorcyclists think they're so special that they can speed, undertake, squeeze through tiny gaps, use cycle lanes, bus lanes and ASLs freely, and still expect everyone else to get out of their way?

Porgy

gabriel959 wrote:

I agree with the author of the article 100%. The title though, is a bit misleading and attention-seeker!!!

I want you to tell me that I deserve to die then.

Porgy

Flambes wrote:

Can the people who are anti-headphones come up with a scenario, where, if you as the cyclist wearing headphones and obeying the highway code, could have an accident which could have been avoided by not wearing them?

My "offs" (and I've had a few!) have all been completely non-relatable to headphone use.

+1

Porgy

pedylan wrote:

i use headphones on my rural traiing rides but I look around plenty. I never use headphones in city cycling as I believe I need every sense to be alert to the unexpected.

Exact opposite for me - I like to know early on when ther'es a car approaching in the country - I'm afraid the same approach just doesn't work in the city when the traffic's barely moving and the poor frustrated morons are sitting there revving their engines.

robthehungrymonkey

Jeeez, i think some people are missing the point...

ride_whenever

yes, the highway code gives you a responsibility to look out for other road users, but i'm not sure you can argue herd effect in that, because everyone has a responsibility to look out for the other users you don't need to look out for yourself.

I'd just like to make clear that i'm not accusing anyone here of not looking out for themselves, but talking about the bulk of idiots with headphones, or perhaps better put as headphone wearing idiots!

feltkuota

Another cack thread blaming someone else for your own misgivings. If you want to wear headphones pile in, I wouldn't though. If you want to tar all motorcyclists with the same brush, fire away but it's like saying all cyclists are RLJ's and ride @ 10mph. Generalise all you like but it's a case of each person should be taking responsibility for themselves.. The truth is that there are cyclists, bikers and drivers less aware of what they should be doing than is actually the case. Each as guilty as the other.

robthehungrymonkey

feltkuota wrote:

Another cack thread blaming someone else for your own misgivings. If you want to wear headphones pile in, I wouldn't though. If you want to tar all motorcyclists with the same brush, fire away but it's like saying all cyclists are RLJ's and ride @ 10mph. Generalise all you like but it's a case of each person should be taking responsibility for themselves.. The truth is that there are cyclists, bikers and drivers less aware of what they should be doing than is actually the case. Each as guilty as the other.

Well said.

pedylan

Porgy wrote:

pedylan wrote:

The author's real target is cyclists (or any road user) who expect other road users to do their thinking for them. .

as demanded by the Highway Code.

I'm sorry but responsible road users do try to do the thinking for others - I pride myself as a cyclist and as a driver that I have many times been able to avoid accidents purely by being able pre-empt stupid behaviour by others.

Why do motorcyclists think they're so special that they can speed, undertake, squeeze through tiny gaps, use cycle lanes, bus lanes and ASLs freely, and still expect everyone else to get out of their way?

There's thinking and thinking. Awareness, observation, anticipation etc; yes. The cyclist who veers across lanes (or the pedestrian who steps out without looking) and ends up under someone's wheels has gone beyond the point where anybody else's observance of the reqs of the Highway code is going to save them. They maybe don't actually DESERVE to die but they are responsible.

guinea

robthehungrymonkey wrote:

Jeeez, i think some people are missing the point...

Indeed.

My original post was not to discuss the merits of cycling with or without headphones.

Here is another attack on cyclists from a professional writer. The tribalism that exists on our roads is bad for everyone. The idiots that escalate these issues should be fired.

All these article succeed in doing is driving a wedge between cyclists and other road users. Well done on creating more bad feeling towards cyclists and in return more animosity towards motorcyclists. When crap like this is written everyone loses.

PS, since I broke my hip I've been commuting on my motorbike. So you'll hear no bashing of either side from me.

gabriel959

feltkuota wrote:

Another cack thread blaming someone else for your own misgivings. If you want to wear headphones pile in, I wouldn't though. If you want to tar all motorcyclists with the same brush, fire away but it's like saying all cyclists are RLJ's and ride @ 10mph. Generalise all you like but it's a case of each person should be taking responsibility for themselves.. The truth is that there are cyclists, bikers and drivers less aware of what they should be doing than is actually the case. Each as guilty as the other.

clap clap clap ... good one!

That is why I wear a helmet too :twisted:

Porgy

pedylan wrote:

Porgy wrote:

pedylan wrote:

The author's real target is cyclists (or any road user) who expect other road users to do their thinking for them. .

as demanded by the Highway Code.

I'm sorry but responsible road users do try to do the thinking for others - I pride myself as a cyclist and as a driver that I have many times been able to avoid accidents purely by being able pre-empt stupid behaviour by others.

Why do motorcyclists think they're so special that they can speed, undertake, squeeze through tiny gaps, use cycle lanes, bus lanes and ASLs freely, and still expect everyone else to get out of their way?

There's thinking and thinking. Awareness, observation, anticipation etc; yes. The cyclist who veers across lanes (or the pedestrian who steps out without looking) and ends up under someone's wheels has gone beyond the point where anybody else's observance of the reqs of the Highway code is going to save them. They maybe don't actually DESERVE to die but they are responsible.

we almost agree 8)

It's a shared repsonsibilty - I find I have an almost supernatural abilty to detect peds about to step out without looking these days - a burden more than a gift actually as I keep having to slow down in rush hour...and my dinging finger gets a bit worn out.

Porgy

ride_whenever wrote:

yes, the highway code gives you a responsibility to look out for other road users, but i'm not sure you can argue herd effect in that, because everyone has a responsibility to look out for the other users you don't need to look out for yourself.

I'd just like to make clear that i'm not accusing anyone here of not looking out for themselves, but talking about the bulk of idiots with headphones, or perhaps better put as headphone wearing idiots!

but idiots not wearing headphones are fine. 8)

turnerjohn

I know a lot of people ride and run with headphones in. While its "motivational" its completely insane to do as you are restricting your hearing to everything around you !
You really only have yourselves to blame if you get shouted at for not hearing a car, shout, engine etc...

Porgy

turnerjohn wrote:

I know a lot of people ride and run with headphones in. While its "motivational" its completely insane to do as you are restricting your hearing to everything around you !
You really only have yourselves to blame if you get shouted at for not hearing a car, shout, engine etc...

after nearly 30 years of cycling with headphones and no related incidents i think i can take that responsibilty.

to be honest we're all out there on our own anyway arent; we?

disgruntledgoat

turnerjohn wrote:

You really only have yourselves to blame if you get shouted at for not hearing a car, shout, engine etc...

Just the way I like it, taking responsibility for oneself and judging hazards accordingly.

Pokerface

Porgy wrote:

turnerjohn wrote:

after nearly 30 years of cycling with headphones and no related incidents i think i can take that responsibilty.

30 years ago they didn't make in-ear headphones! You must have been cycling around with giant 'ear-muff' style stereo headphones.

In fact - 30 years ago they hadn't even come out with the first Walkman's yet - had they!?
8)

Headhuunter

This amuses me somewhat. A while ago we had a series of threads slating RLJ-ers. I admitted I RLJ-ed and stated my point. However I would never, ever wear headphones when riding. Whilst riding through traffic all you have is your sight and your hearing to help you, personally I would not want to disable or partially disable one of those senses.

It amuses me that so many people jumped on their high horses about RLJ-ing which somehow seems to represent the biggest sin in the cycling world. We had people here calling RLJ-er anything from twunts to far worse, yet so many people are happy to block their ears and ride in rush hour traffic!

Just seems a stupid paradox to me!

Stewie Griffin

Pokerface wrote:

Porgy wrote:

turnerjohn wrote:

after nearly 30 years of cycling with headphones and no related incidents i think i can take that responsibilty.

30 years ago they didn't make in-ear headphones! You must have been cycling around with giant 'ear-muff' style stereo headphones.

In fact - 30 years ago they hadn't even come out with the first Walkman's yet - had they!?
8)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkman

"went on sale in Japan on July 1, 1979" Now I feel old

Porgy

Pokerface wrote:

Porgy wrote:

after nearly 30 years of cycling with headphones and no related incidents i think i can take that responsibilty.

30 years ago they didn't make in-ear headphones! You must have been cycling around with giant 'ear-muff' style stereo headphones.

Not in-ear - but they were still pretty small headphones - I kept the giant muff style ones for indoors.

In fact - 30 years ago they hadn't even come out with the first Walkman's yet - had they!?
8)

That's why I said nearly 30 years - I reckon I must have got it about 82/83 - mind you - not the most reliable of contraptions!

Funnily enough I was still using a version of the "cassette-based" Sony Walkman as recently as 4 years ago.

Flambes

Headhuunter wrote:

This amuses me somewhat. A while ago we had a series of threads slating RLJ-ers. I admitted I RLJ-ed and stated my point. However I would never, ever wear headphones when riding. Whilst riding through traffic all you have is your sight and your hearing to help you, personally I would not want to disable or partially disable one of those senses.

It amuses me that so many people jumped on their high horses about RLJ-ing which somehow seems to represent the biggest sin in the cycling world. We had people here calling RLJ-er anything from twunts to far worse, yet so many people are happy to block their ears and ride in rush hour traffic!

Just seems a stupid paradox to me!

If I was RLJ'ing, I wouldn't wear headphones, but I don't, so I do (occasionally).

Porgy

Headhuunter wrote:

This amuses me somewhat. A while ago we had a series of threads slating RLJ-ers. I admitted I RLJ-ed and stated my point. However I would never, ever wear headphones when riding. Whilst riding through traffic all you have is your sight and your hearing to help you, personally I would not want to disable or partially disable one of those senses.

It amuses me that so many people jumped on their high horses about RLJ-ing which somehow seems to represent the biggest sin in the cycling world. We had people here calling RLJ-er anything from twunts to far worse, yet so many people are happy to block their ears and ride in rush hour traffic!

Just seems a stupid paradox to me!

I don't remember jumping on a high horse about anything. I've been known to RLJ myself a few times (not necessarily with headphones on mind you - they're not glued to my head).

RLJing is fine with me in moderation - it's when it's part of a general campaign of complete idiocy i become annoyed.

freehub

Headhuunter wrote:

This amuses me somewhat. A while ago we had a series of threads slating RLJ-ers. I admitted I RLJ-ed and stated my point. However I would never, ever wear headphones when riding. Whilst riding through traffic all you have is your sight and your hearing to help you, personally I would not want to disable or partially disable one of those senses.

It amuses me that so many people jumped on their high horses about RLJ-ing which somehow seems to represent the biggest sin in the cycling world. We had people here calling RLJ-er anything from twunts to far worse, yet so many people are happy to block their ears and ride in rush hour traffic!

Just seems a stupid paradox to me!

I don't block my ears, headphones don't actually do that, ok some do, mine don't, but if I was RLJ'ing then I'd certainly not wear headphones as thats very dangerous, but I stop when the lights are on red and go when they're on green. I admit, I go through if it's on amber.

As I mentioned, "Cycling into a headwind? You deserve to die."

fast as fupp

frankly cyclists who dont have a full driving license should have to take some sort of test- like a cbt for motorcyclists- to prove their competence on the road