The Best Rider in the World for 2009

frenchfighter

This question was tackled somewhat oddly in another thread and I could have posted this there yet I think it is an interesting question and worthy of proper debate in its own thread.

Let me say first off that this is a subjective question. There are no right or wrong answers. I am interested in people's opinion and the process they used to come to it.

This is for 2009 only, so past performances are not my concern in this thread.

So to start, I think Contador is the best rider in the World for 2009.

My process for arriving at this decision was as follows.

If we break road racing skills broadly down into:
Timetrialler
Rouleur
Climber
Sprinter

And then the type of races broadly down into:
1 week or shorter stage races
3 week stage races
Individual TT events
1 day races

We can now analyse Contador under these categories.

He is an amazing timetrialler. He has had 5 TT wins and 2 seconds.

Although being able to measure capabilities as a rouleur are difficult, by his own admission he is the best rouleur of the climbers which means he arrives fresher on the climbs. Being a good TTer also transfers to rouleur.

He will leave anyone for dead on the climbs as he has proven over and over again this year. He has the best acceleration of any rider and can attack from far out.

Sprinting is not really something we can attribute to him. The only time I saw him sprint this year was against F Schleck and Colom in Paris Nice where he came 2nd.

Now:
3 week stage races.
This year he entered one and won one. He did this conclusively by a long margin and with additional large barriers.

1 week or shorter stage races.
He won the Volta ao Algarve (not quite a full week).
He came 4th in paris Nice (2nd in Mountains and Points competition).
He won Vuelta al Pais Vasco.
He came 2nd in Vuelta a Castilla y Leon (could have won but his teammate Levi had the jersey).
He came 3rd in Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré.

Individual TTs.
He won the Spanish National Championships.

1 day races.
He didn't enter any so he didn't win any.

He is ranked first on the UCI rankings, with 58% more points than 2nd place.

He is ranked first on CQ rankings, with 60% more points than 2nd place.

On this basis I would say without hesitation that he is the best rider in the World.

Honourable mentions go to Cavendish and Boasson Hagen

timoid.

frenchfighter wrote:

Although being able to measure capabilities as a rouleur are difficult, by his own admission he is the best rouleur of the climbers which means he arrives fresher on the climbs.

And by my own admission I am the greatest lover in Western Europe. I have more stamina, so am always fresher for the third round

That aside, he would have to be ranked number one of stage racers and Cav as number 1 of stage getters. Its up to folks to say what they value.

I would have him 1, Cav 2 and Valverde (if he wins the Vuelta) 3. Cav is something very special, possibly the fastest sprinter of all time.

RichN95.

Armstrong probably

CyclingBantam

RichN95 wrote:

Armstrong probably

+1. That's that settled then...

dennisn

Timoid. wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Although being able to measure capabilities as a rouleur are difficult, by his own admission he is the best rouleur of the climbers which means he arrives fresher on the climbs.

And by my own admission I am the greatest lover in Western Europe. I have more stamina, so am always fresher for the third round

"Third round"? I'm impressed. I'll have what you're drinking.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Pokerface

RichN95 wrote:

Armstrong probably

You could actually make an argument that Armstrong was a better rider in 2009 than Contador solely based on the fact he accomplished more for his age than Contador. To finish 12th in the Giro and 3rd in the Tour at the age of 38 (or 37 or however old he is) and to do both those things after 3 years away from the sport and after breaking a collarbone is more impressive to me than a fit 20-something twig of a rider that can climb mountains with ease.

Don't get me wrong - Bertie is one talented rider - but I wonder how good he will/would be in comparison when he is Armstrong's age!

And based on wins - Cav gets my vote (he won again today). MRS proves he can do more than JUST win sprints when he has a strong lead-out train.

teagar

Pokerface wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Armstrong probably

You could actually make an argument that Armstrong was a better rider in 2009 than Contador solely based on the fact he accomplished more for his age than Contador. To finish 12th in the Giro and 3rd in the Tour at the age of 38 (or 37 or however old he is) and to do both those things after 3 years away from the sport and after breaking a collarbone is more impressive to me than a fit 20-something twig of a rider that can climb mountains with ease.

Don't get me wrong - Bertie is one talented rider - but I wonder how good he will/would be in comparison when he is Armstrong's age!
.

Eh? That makes no sense.

You can't age adjust for a comment on who was the best in a particular year. That's part of who he is! That he was born in '71!

Contador was always better than Armstrong in 2009. That may well be because of age, but that can't detract from the sheer glaring fact that Contador was better than Armstrong.

moray_gub

Pokerface wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Armstrong probably

You could actually make an argument that Armstrong was a better rider in 2009 than Contador solely based on the fact he accomplished more for his age than Contador. To finish 12th in the Giro and 3rd in the Tour at the age of 38 (or 37 or however old he is) and to do both those things after 3 years away from the sport and after breaking a collarbone is more impressive to me than a fit 20-something twig of a rider that can climb mountains with ease.

Don't get me wrong - Bertie is one talented rider - but I wonder how good he will/would be in comparison when he is Armstrong's age!

And based on wins - Cav gets my vote (he won again today). MRS proves he can do more than JUST win sprints when he has a strong lead-out train.

Cav for me as well ok he is not my favourite character but his list of wins including MSR is very very impressive. Bertie is doing what he did previously by winning the TDF as you would expect the best stage race rider to do but his season has ended in July meanwhile Cav piles up the wins.

davelovatt

For me Contador :shock: deffo numero uno with special mentions for Cav and especially Wiggo. His effort to hang on up Vontoux when being repeatedly dropped was awe inspiring. a good guy too!

blazing_saddles

How can you decide who the best rider of 2009 is?
It's only the first week of September.

FJS

frenchfighter wrote:

1 day races.
He didn't enter any so he didn't win any.

Really? None at all? Amazing.

But wait a minute, he rode the Bavikhove criterium last Sunday, and won it. So his score is 100% for one day races. He's clearly the best one day racer there is. This year at least. This year until early September that is.

all show no go

It's Cav for me. For Milan-San Remo and the numerous wins before and after, both in and out of Europe.. His wins this year epitomize what 'team ethic' is all about. Many people have found Cavs wins boring simply because they happen so often. But for me one of the most exciting things to have seen this year is the Bingo train thundering in to town, immaculately drilled, and bringing the Manx Missile home home time and time again. And he always gives good quote.
(Brilliant Surprise Performance Of The Year.....Twiggo at The Tour)
(Special award for Jens Voigt simply because he's still there doing it and he's older than Lance and nowhere near as much of a tw@t.)

jim one

Pokerface wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Armstrong probably

You could actually make an argument that Armstrong was a better rider in 2009 than Contador solely based on the fact he accomplished more for his age than Contador. To finish 12th in the Giro and 3rd in the Tour at the age of 38 (or 37 or however old he is) and to do both those things after 3 years away from the sport and after breaking a collarbone is more impressive to me than a fit 20-something twig of a rider that can climb mountains with ease.

Don't get me wrong - Bertie is one talented rider - but I wonder how good he will/would be in comparison when he is Armstrong's age!

Is that Phil or Paul??

Contador for me just has no rival. I wish he does liege though next year to try show his dominance like Andy Schleck did this year.

frenchfighter

FJS wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

1 day races.
He didn't enter any so he didn't win any.

Really? None at all? Amazing.

But wait a minute, he rode the Bavikhove criterium last Sunday, and won it. So his score is 100% for one day races. He's clearly the best one day racer there is. This year at least. This year until early September that is.

When I say 1 day races I do not include criteriums as the result is mostly pre-arranged post-Tour. The Bavikhove Crit is not the only crit he has competed in and won this year.

I am struggling to understand your tone/point.

Who is your favourite rider? Why do you think that?

disgruntledgoat

Given I've criticised certain riders in the past for only winning in july, it has to be Cav for me... winning all the way from march to september, expanding his repetoire through hard work to get him over the climbs and finishing the Tour. He also manages better than "next question" when doping is mentioned.

frenchfighter

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Given I've criticised certain riders in the past for only winning in july, it has to be Cav for me... winning all the way from march to september, expanding his repetoire through hard work to get him over the climbs and finishing the Tour. He also manages better than "next question" when doping is mentioned.

Cav has certainly be superb all through the year which is why I have him as an honourable mention.

Do you say that point about only winning in July in relation to Contador?

Anonymous

I think it's me, because my kids told me so.

FJS

frenchfighter wrote:

FJS wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

1 day races.
He didn't enter any so he didn't win any.

Really? None at all? Amazing.

But wait a minute, he rode the Bavikhove criterium last Sunday, and won it. So his score is 100% for one day races. He's clearly the best one day racer there is. This year at least. This year until early September that is.

When I say 1 day races I do not include criteriums as the result is mostly pre-arranged post-Tour. The Bavikhove Crit is not the only crit he has competed in and won this year.

I am struggling to understand your tone/point.

Who is your favourite rider? Why do you think that?

Just trying to lighten up this 'debate' a bit; I wasn't being serious of course.

Best rider of the year, well, you'd be tempted to say Contador, but then apart from the TdF he has only won the tour of the Basque Country and a stage in Paris-Nice (not counting the national TT champs with limited participation and Tour of the Algarve which is more warm-up training). If Valverde wins the Vuelta, couldn't he claim at least as succesful a season?
It's an impossible question though, how to compare Contador's season with that of Cavendish?

My favorite rider? I don't know. I used to like Gianni Bugno when I was getting into cycling, and liked the long distance 'stoempers' like Ludo Dierckxsens and Thomas Wegmuller. But now, I don't know. I like David Millar's and Pedro Horrillo's intelligent race analysis, but don't necessarily like them as riders. Favourite rider? Perhaps Thomas Lovkvist, because he was so predictable at the Eroica and gave me lots of PTP points

frenchfighter

FJS.

You mention Valverde as having a successful season and you are certainly correct even if he doesn't win the Vuelta. He is already 6th on UCI rankings and 2nd on CQ. If he had not been barred from the Tour he would most likely have bagged a win or two there as well. In addition he also race all three Ardennes Classics and won two minor stage races as well as the Dauphine as well as a bunch of other very respectable results/placings.

The only direct comparison to Contador and Valverde can come from the Vuelta a Castilla y Leon - Valv was 9th and Contador was 2nd.

Here are the UCI rankings in case anyone can't locate them:
http://www.uci.ch/templates/BUILTIN-NOF ... U&LangId=1

disgruntledgoat

Are these CQ ratings as infallible as you suggest? I've never seen/heard of them before. I've normally found that these ratings systems skew towards the type of rider the author favours...

frenchfighter

Certainly not. I am not basing everything on them - they make up one part of the analysis.

How about the issue of July / Contador?

bigmat

frenchfighter wrote:

FJS.

You mention Valverde as having a successful season and you are certainly correct even if he doesn't win the Vuelta. He is already 6th on UCI rankings and 2nd on CQ. If he had not been barred from the Tour he would most likely have bagged a win or two there as well. In addition he also race all three Ardennes Classics and won two minor stage races as well as the Dauphine as well as a bunch of other very respectable results/placings.

The only direct comparison to Contador and Valverde can come from the Vuelta a Castilla y Leon - Valv was 9th and Contador was 2nd.

Here are the UCI rankings in case anyone can't locate them:
http://www.uci.ch/templates/BUILTIN-NOF ... U&LangId=1

What about the Dauphine? :?

blazing_saddles

This thread is turning into fanboyism, with simply a different name at the top of the list.

If we are forced to accept the UCI rankings must dictate who was the best rider, then, what is the point of starting this thread?

Different posters will use different criteria to make their decision.

Having or choosing a favourite ride is just that:favouritism.
Subjective decisions are usually open to criticism.

Contador? Well, IMO he has had less successful season than last year, so I find it difficult to pin this tag on him.
Cavendish certainly deserves consideration, with a classics win and 10 GT stages.

I hate to say it, but, for me, the two other riders that factor, are Wiggins, simply because of his massive improvement as a GT rider and Armstrong, who exceeded most rational people's expectations.

I really not comfortable with the title of "best rider" being awarded to an individual.
To me, that award goes to the peloton.

disgruntledgoat

I wasn't arguing you were basing everything on them... I was asking for a brief synopsis of what they are.

The july thing is based on perception more than anything. Contador didn't ride the Giro, didn't ride the Ardennes and didn't ride the Vuelta. How do his racing days compare to Cavendish etc, as that will have a bearing on efficiency.

disgruntledgoat

Agree with Blazing Saddles here, given the variation in length, terrain and climate of professional races, how can you say winning one is superior to another?

bsm2dj

Excuse my naivety, but can someone explain what the CQ score is?

FF- I certainly hope you know your studies as well as you know all the facts and figures from the world of cycling!

frenchfighter

Like I said in the OP I know people will have different opinions and I have no problems with that at all. Like I also said I am interested in the process to arrive at that decision.

Blazing, I hope you are not referring to me. I am debating my point fairly, without bias and without any antagonistic language. All I want is some discussion on a topic I am genuinely interested in and so far it has gone ok.

BS, will reply to your comments later when I have a moment.

DG, will answer about the wins too in a bit.

MH, you are right about the Dauphiné, I forgot to mention it. I watched it all though and Valverde was on great form. Contador not so much so but this was firstly apparently tactical and secondly there was an agreement between them whereby Contador wouldn't win and would check Evans and CdE would help him in the Tour.

frenchfighter

bsm2dj wrote:

Excuse my naivety, but can someone explain what the CQ score is?

FF- I certainly hope you know your studies as well as you know all the facts and figures from the world of cycling!

Essentially it uses the old UCI ranking system.

Not too sure what you mean in your 2nd comment...

Woodchip

The one

The only

The flying Frenchman

The bad boy of Bbox

Thomas "God" Voeckler.

Oh yeah baby. No-one is better.

deejay

Pokerface wrote:

You could actually make an argument that Armstrong was a better rider in 2009 than Contador solely based on the fact he accomplished more for his age than Contador. To finish 12th in the Giro and 3rd in the Tour at the age of 38 (or 37 or however old he is) and to do both those things after 3 years away from the sport and after breaking a collarbone is more impressive to me than a fit 20-something twig of a rr"ider that can climb mountains with ease.

And based on wins - Cav gets my vote (he won again today). MRS proves he can do more than JUST win sprints when he has a strong lead-out train.

Put the Texan in the Bottom Drawer and forget him. (on this thread he don't count at all)
He rode this year as a "Poser" and don't give me the TDF as there was no Competitive TDF in 2009 and can they serve up such rubbish for him in 2010.?? probably.

Contador, nice ride son but if you keep that up you will be just another 7 time "Programmer" and not worthy of your talents. (I know about Paris/Nice etc)

I had Cavendish because of his many wins and the one that tips my vote for him was the TDF Stage 19 win in Aubenas with that Parcour that nobody tipped him.
I also note that San Remo is mentioned and that is of course a "Monument Race" and that Texan "NEVER" won any of those. Zilch.