The reflector debate

Headhuunter

TheStone wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

choirboy wrote:

sarajoy wrote:

irideredthebike wrote:

TheStone wrote:

Reflectors on wheels seem pointless. When lit, they're great, but due to the angle the driver would see them it's unlikely that they'd avoid a crash.

If you are crossing a side street on the far side of the road from a car, they will see you very well and very early with side reflectors and not enter the intersection, saving your life in the process.

Aye, I'm looking to get another to replace the one that's broken off - mainly because of how bright and obvious they looked on a cyclist that passed me the other day.

Not according to the Cyclecraft bible which basically says that if a car is close enough to see your wheel reflectors and it hasn't already stopped, you're toast.... On that basis mine are staying in the bin.

Have however, ordered some nice "black in the day, white at night" sticker material to apply to my black chainstays, seatpost and forks.

Well that sounds like complete rubbish, for a start it would very much depend on the speed the driver was travelling at. Clean/shiny wheel reflectors illuminate very brightly from about 20-30 metres away, unless the vehicle was travelling at high speed, that's easily enough distance to stop or at least slow down.

But how slow would you need to be riding for it to make a difference? Once the car sees your reflectors, you're almost directly in front. If the car is 5m away you're dead. If the car is further away, you'd have ridden past directly in front so wouldn't get hit.

I see what you mean but car headlight beams do not illuminate a small area just ahead of them, the beam covers quite a large area on a horizontal plane so you may not necessarily be 5 metres away and dead ahead, you may be starting to cross the junction when the edge of the car's beam illuminates the reflectors 10 or so metres away on a diagonal. Also reflectors do not always seem to need direct light to offer some reflectivity, so even if the cars beam just begins to catch them, they may help the driver to notice you.

choirboy

Headhuunter wrote:

I see what you mean but car headlight beams do not illuminate a small area just ahead of them, the beam covers quite a large area on a horizontal plane so you may not necessarily be 5 metres away and dead ahead, you may be starting to cross the junction when the edge of the car's beam illuminates the reflectors 10 or so metres away on a diagonal. Also reflectors do not always seem to need direct light to offer some reflectivity, so even if the cars beam just begins to catch them, they may help the driver to notice you.

The point is this:

A car will only illuminate wheel reflectors when travelling at right-angles to the bike so the only practical situation this will happen is at a junction or similar when bike is crossing the car's path. If it lights you up 20 metres away, it makes no odds because you will be out of the car's path by the time it gets to you. 5 metres away and it won't have time to stop.

Received the ResPro black stuff yesterday and it is the dog's proverbial, esp. if you have a black bike! Strips on chainstays, cranks and front forks so far. Invisible in daylight, Xmas tree (from the front or rear) under lights.

OT, but a mate at work did also suggest an alternative use....

Since the stuff is black in daylight, it could be applied to a car bumper and be virtually invisible during the day but would light up at night. Now, you could cut out letters to put on your own bumper to say something like "Keep your distance". Alternatively you could find your boss's car in the car park and add something suitable to his.... I reckon it would take a week of getting flashed by the car following for him to spot it....

TommyEss

choirboy wrote:

"Keep your distance". Alternatively you could find your boss's car in the car park and add something suitable to his.... I reckon it would take a week of getting flashed by the car following for him to spot it....

Seems like a missed opportunity to me - surely a great place for libel, n'est-ce pas?!

MonkeyMonster

Where did you get that blackatnight stuff from choirboy see voo plate?

_Brun_

How many cars have black bumpers these days?

Sewinman

I noticed when driving that reflectove trouser clips stand out a mile. I think its because lights are dipped to the left so are shining at that area.

choirboy

MonkeyMonster wrote:

Where did you get that blackatnight stuff from choirboy see voo plate?

Wiggle

mrstephenhawking

choirboy wrote:

sarajoy wrote:

irideredthebike wrote:

TheStone wrote:

Reflectors on wheels seem pointless. When lit, they're great, but due to the angle the driver would see them it's unlikely that they'd avoid a crash.

If you are crossing a side street on the far side of the road from a car, they will see you very well and very early with side reflectors and not enter the intersection, saving your life in the process.

Aye, I'm looking to get another to replace the one that's broken off - mainly because of how bright and obvious they looked on a cyclist that passed me the other day.

Not according to the Cyclecraft bible which basically says that if a car is close enough to see your wheel reflectors and it hasn't already stopped, you're toast.... On that basis mine are staying in the bin.

Have however, ordered some nice "black in the day, white at night" sticker material to apply to my black chainstays, seatpost and forks.

Reflection is the change in direction of a wavefront at an interface between two different media so that the wavefront returns into the medium from which it originated. Common examples include the reflection of light, sound and water waves. The law of reflection says that for specular reflection the angle at which the wave is incident on the surface equals the angle at which it is reflected.


In other words wheel reflectors are most effective when a motor vehicles headlights are at 90 degrees to the reflectors.

Assuming said motor vehicle wishes to actually stop at a junction then all is well & good.
Wheel reflectors are about as much use as a chocolate fireguard in a smidsy situation.

bails87

I've ventured over from the muddy part of the forum but....

What about if you're on the bike, making a right turn from a minor to major road, with a car approaching (but still a fair distance away) from the left, as you cross the road, the wheel reflectors, like pedal reflectors, identify you as being on a bike, so when the driver sees the single red light ahead, he knows in advance that it's a bike, not a motorbike or car with broken lights.

Same prinicipal if you ride past a minor road as a car is approaching, he may not pose any danger to you at the junction itself, but if he's seen the wheel reflectors then he know's you're ahead of him (assuming he doesnt turn away from you at the junction) somewhere and to keep an eye out.

jamesco

mrstephenhawking wrote:

wheel reflectors are most effective when a motor vehicles headlights are at 90 degrees to the reflectors

That's why they have many facets.

choirboy

bails87 wrote:

I've ventured over from the muddy part of the forum but....

What about if you're on the bike, making a right turn from a minor to major road, with a car approaching (but still a fair distance away) from the left, as you cross the road, the wheel reflectors, like pedal reflectors, identify you as being on a bike, so when the driver sees the single red light ahead, he knows in advance that it's a bike, not a motorbike or car with broken lights.

Same prinicipal if you ride past a minor road as a car is approaching, he may not pose any danger to you at the junction itself, but if he's seen the wheel reflectors then he know's you're ahead of him (assuming he doesnt turn away from you at the junction) somewhere and to keep an eye out.

Surely in the first situation it would have to be a left turn?

Hey, if you want to keep them then fine but I think there are more useful ways of making yourself visible.

bails87

But if it was a left turn you wouldn't be riding 'across' the road, you'd be parallel to the kerb almost straight away wouldn't you? So there'd be no opportunity for lights from a car approaching you on the main road to hit the reflectors side on.

And I took mine off as soon as I got my bike home, I'm just being devils advocate and trying to think of why they're fitted.

choirboy

bails87 wrote:

But if it was a left turn you wouldn't be riding 'across' the road, you'd be parallel to the kerb almost straight away wouldn't you? So there'd be no opportunity for lights from a car approaching you on the main road to hit the reflectors side on.

And I took mine off as soon as I got my bike home, I'm just being devils advocate and trying to think of why they're fitted.

But with a right turn you would ride towards the car and be gone in a matter of seconds...

[Edit] Duh - see what you mean now! Excuse = 3 pints at lunchtime... :oops:

sarajoy

Well, however useful they may be, I've just adorned my spokes with garish sticky reflectors, and am looking forward to having a play with the black/white sticky tape that arrived today

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarawallen ... 213445829/

Cafewanda

Hi SaraJoy, I'm still envious re the shoes you got aeons ago, but the black stuff looks worthwhile. I'm down your way tomorrow driving a tank (or trying to!) so I'll give you a 'mental' wave

sarajoy

Good stuff! I'd offer a cuppa if I wasn't driving up to Nottingham tomorrow... What's this tank, then?!

sarajoy

Debatable reflectives or not, this is bloody cool stuff:

No flash...


Flash!


That's a metre's worth of 5mm-width tape (about £6-7) cut up, and I still have some over

NGale

I have to admit I am seriously looking into getting some of that tape, with having a black framed bike it wouldn't stand out during the day, but would give the reflection I need during the night.

When I picked up my bike it didn't actually come with a rear reflector, just the back light which I had brought for it, so technically I could be riding illigally

rolf_f

Just won 5m of 25mm reflective black tape off Ebay. Don't plan to be as artistic as Sara but I will post pics

ride_whenever

my pompino has black seatstays and has stripes of that stuff, looks awesome under the flash!

cougie

I am a big fan of the reflective tape - the 3M diamond stuff is all over my winter fixy - so all angles will flash up.
I also put tyre flys on my valves and they show up miles away. With decent lights and all this kit with more reflective tape on - I feel safer at night than in the daylight.

cougie

My reflectives from the back

http://twitpic.com/hqxj1

TommyEss

I'm going to have to get some for my Pompino now - even if I don't go for "the full zebra TM" I can at least zebrafy my black mudguards!