The reflector debate

NGale

Now I have already taken off the front and rear reflector from my commuting bike, but I am now having the debate over wether I should take the wheel reflectors off, especially in the up coming darker evenings

I tend to only cycle to work when on a night shift (7pm start to 7am) so at the moment light isn't an issue, but it's making me think when it comes to the darker evenings.

Just a bit of an internal debate I'm having and was wondering what others thought, for better or worse

roger_merriman

the problem with reflectors is thats what they are IE the car/van/bus needs to have the lights pointed at you, driving though london the cyclist that are easy to spot are the ones who don't gutter hug etc and are postively in the flow of traffic. in busy urban areas postion and lights, reflective stuff is a distant third I say.

DonDaddyD

roger merriman wrote:

the problem with reflectors is thats what they are IE the car/van/bus needs to have the lights pointed at you, driving though london the cyclist that are easy to spot are the ones who don't gutter hug etc and are postively in the flow of traffic. in busy urban areas postion and lights, reflective stuff is a distant third I say.

I disagree, where I live (South West London, be it Norbury, Wimbledon, Balham et al) there is a permanent orange hue in the night sky caused by so many damn lights.

Quite often when driving the lights on a bicycle (unless they have some unique flashing or scrolling function) can have a tendancy to blend into the ambient light that is a well lit London street. What stands out for me and makes me take notice is reflective clothing and dare I say it (hi-visibilty clothing, urgh).

Over the past week while driving at night I've been taken back by how much more visible (and more aware I am of a cyclist illuminated by hi-vis and reflective clothing) so much so that I'm seriously considering going hi-vis this winter....

roger_merriman

DonDaddyD wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

the problem with reflectors is thats what they are IE the car/van/bus needs to have the lights pointed at you, driving though london the cyclist that are easy to spot are the ones who don't gutter hug etc and are postively in the flow of traffic. in busy urban areas postion and lights, reflective stuff is a distant third I say.

I disagree, where I live (South West London, be it Norbury, Wimbledon, Balham et al) there is a permanent orange hue in the night sky caused by so many damn lights.

Quite often when driving the lights on a bicycle (unless they have some unique flashing or scrolling function) can have a tendancy to blend into the ambient light that is a well lit London street. What stands out for me and makes me take notice is reflective clothing and dare I say it (hi-visibilty clothing, urgh).

Over the past week while driving at night I've been taken back by how much more visible (and more aware I am of a cyclist illuminated by hi-vis and reflective clothing) so much so that I'm seriously considering going hi-vis this winter....

I've found over the years that even with all the hi-vis lights etc, if a bike is too much of a gutter bunny then they can merge with the streetlights etc, not so much you don't see them as you can end up seeing them later than sooner.

I do agree sometimes hI vis lives up to it's name, but the folk I've found easy to spot even on wet and dark nights are ones who use postion, they use lights and most likely hi-vis at least bits any way. but it's their postion that the key.

pottssteve

I wear a high vis vest and have a red rear light/reflector and a flashing white front light. Streetlights here mean that flashing bike lights are more likely to catch the eye. I've also kept the reflectors on the wheels as a lot of drivers don't look properly when entering roundabouts.I also try not to gutter-hug. If I have to look like Blackpool Illuminations not to get hit I will..

cjcp

Used to have reflectors on the wheel before I broke them. Think it's more effective to have reflective strips around the ankles tbh.

I've now got reflective taping on both seat stays, the front facing part of the head tube, as well as along the top tube, the back of the saddle bag and the back of the helmet. All looking a bit grimy though, so might have to put some new tape on.

spen666

Hmmm I'm sure the RTA makes the having of prescribed reflectors compulsory.

You may find that in litigation following an accident that the motorists insurers argue (successfully)?) contributory negligence on your part if you do not have the minimum prescribed reflectors on your bike

jimmypippa

DonDaddyD wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

the problem with reflectors is thats what they are IE the car/van/bus needs to have the lights pointed at you, driving though london the cyclist that are easy to spot are the ones who don't gutter hug etc and are postively in the flow of traffic. in busy urban areas postion and lights, reflective stuff is a distant third I say.

I disagree, where I live (South West London, be it Norbury, Wimbledon, Balham et al) there is a permanent orange hue in the night sky caused by so many damn lights.

Quite often when driving the lights on a bicycle (unless they have some unique flashing or scrolling function) can have a tendancy to blend into the ambient light that is a well lit London street. What stands out for me and makes me take notice is reflective clothing and dare I say it (hi-visibilty clothing, urgh).

Over the past week while driving at night I've been taken back by how much more visible (and more aware I am of a cyclist illuminated by hi-vis and reflective clothing) so much so that I'm seriously considering going hi-vis this winter....

Yes...

Which is why I sometimes struggle to find clothing I find appropriate for summer evenings

choirboy

To go over the same ground again, the legal requirements are:

BS lights front and back
Rear red reflecter
Amber reflecters on both pedals

So if you've taken the rear reflecter off you are illegal. Front and wheel reflecters are not a legal requirement.

Worth making the above sticky (mods?) to avoid endless repetition as it gets darker?

Barto

If you're a heavier rider and there is any flex in your front wheel I would vote to remove the front reflector. I've had one jam in the back of my fork when I hit a bump on a steep hill. Destroyed the reflector, chipped the fork and scared the hell out of me.

Headhuunter

I've got reflectors on the wheels and back of the commuter bike. They're a bit dorky but definitely make you more visible to drivers. Hi viz is only useful in dusky or daylight conditions, at night, hi viz vests are no more visible than any other light coloured item of clothing, unless they have reflective strips on them.

IME the best reflectors to have are on the heel of you shoes or on the pedals. Having seen cyclists ahead of me on my commute with these, the bobbing motion makes them much more visible than normal lights and reflectors which, as DDD says, tend to blurr into the mass of lights on the roads.

In London they are definitely beneficial, it's very rare that some car or lorry doesn't have it's lights on you, so they're almost always illuminated.

jonginge

Headhuunter wrote:

I've got reflectors on the wheels and back of the commuter bike. They're a bit dorky but definitely make you more visible to drivers. Hi viz is only useful in dusky or daylight conditions, at night, hi viz vests are no more visible than any other light coloured item of clothing, unless they have reflective strips on them.

IME the best reflectors to have are on the heel of you shoes or on the pedals. Having seen cyclists ahead of me on my commute with these, the bobbing motion makes them much more visible than normal lights and reflectors which, as DDD says, tend to blurr into the mass of lights on the roads.

In London they are definitely beneficial, it's very rare that some car or lorry doesn't have it's lights on you, so they're almost always illuminated.

During the winter months overshoes with reflectives on them are the business.

Same as CJ I've got some reflective strips on my bike: some are white, some black (diamond) so they blend into the paint/component during daylight but shine up at night. Similarly, I've also put some of the white strips on the front and back of my helmet.

cjcp

JonGinge wrote:

During the winter months overshoes with reflectives on them are the business.

Ooo, yeah, I got these too. Planet X ones.

irideredthebike

I am not sure why you would remove reflectors unless it is to make room for lights (front only of course, you can leave the back one alone to be legal). They cost a $1, weigh mere grams and could possibly save your life. Absolute bargain.

Wheel reflectors are particularly good as they make you very visible to cars travelling perpendicular to you. I know I have spotted several bikes only because of their wheel reflectors and unless you are going to buy one of these you can't even justify removing them to make way for lights.

il_principe

Reflective strips on the bag are the biz. I have a reflective strip on the shoulder strap, across the back of the back and have 2 reflective "trails" that hang down from the back each with it's own Knog flashy light. The GF was cycling behind ne on Sat night and commented how visible it all was. Hi Viz is a waste of time IME, reflective is far far better, esp in London where basically everything you see is covered in Hi Viz.

alfablue

Hi Viz is really for daylight, Reflective for night time, they don't really work outside of these parameters, so ideally you have both.

jamesco

Il Principe wrote:

in London where basically everything you see is covered in Hi Viz.

That's the point of high-viz, isn't it?

TommyEss

On my commuter I have two rear lights (one of which includes a BS reflector) one on static one on flashing, coupled with the reflective strip on my saddle bag and a reflective strip across the back of my Crumpler bag, and two of those Respro hang tags for good measure.

At the front it's a big bright cateye on fixed, and a smaller one on flashing (no front reflector, but I do have a bell now!)

Wheel-wise I took of the spokey-doke reflectors but added Continental GP4000 tyres in 25C with reflective sidewalls (cheapest on Probike Kit IIRC last time I checked)

On me, winter time means overshoes or winter boots - both have reflectives on them, and I think there's a legal precedent already established that with clipless pedal systems, once engaged, the shoe is deemed to be mechanically as one with the pedal, ergo, a reflective shoe is as good as a reflective pedal, hence you're compliant.

So pretty brightly lit -

Remember, all this lighting etc. is only a legal requirement throughout the hours of darkness, though on dim winter morning's it's still a good idea...!

Back to the OP - it's your commuting bike, not your weight-weenie fixed-gear hill climber - put as much daft shiny bright flashy stuff on it as you can find.

No one's been accused in court of being "too visible" -

Frankly I'd love to see the look on the jury's face if after the defendant's plea of "I didn't see him your honour" you were able to say "To the defendant's claim, may I present evidence number one.", wheel your garish bike into court, turn the lights off, wait a minute, turn them back on, and then just walk back to the table, sit down, and wait for the chequebook.

the_hundredth_idiot

Have you tried buying reflectors, though? My bike came without them and I meant to put some on last winter - I asked in several bike shops and they looked at me as if I was a bit odd. :?

Even places like wiggle and Evans don't seem to stock them even though they have a massive range of lights. I have found some reflectors online at Discount Bicycles - and, handily, they seemed to be based very near where I live - I think I'll pop in to stock up!

DonDaddyD

roger merriman wrote:

I've found over the years that even with all the hi-vis lights etc, if a bike is too much of a gutter bunny then they can merge with the streetlights etc, not so much you don't see them as you can end up seeing them later than sooner.

Word. (Is it still cool to use that American term to signify agreement of what is being said?)

will3

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

Have you tried buying reflectors, though? My bike came without them and I meant to put some on last winter - I asked in several bike shops and they looked at me as if I was a bit odd. :?

Even places like wiggle and Evans don't seem to stock them even though they have a massive range of lights. I have found some reflectors online at Discount Bicycles - and, handily, they seemed to be based very near where I live - I think I'll pop in to stock up!

My LBS gives them away, as does the local halfords

sarajoy

Hi-Viz is the umbrella term for day-glo and reflectives, isn't it? There seems to be confusion as to what people are calling good and bad and for what purpose.

I'm all for people seeing day-glo yellow and thinking 'cyclist' - the less confusing, the better.

From a car's perspective, as a driver at night, reflectives are THE thing to have. You see the brightness of your headlights shone back at you, they are very visible - sometimes I can't tell the difference between a red rear reflector and a steady rear light.

alfablue

Yes, Hi Viz may well be a term used loosely to describe both reflectives and high visibility colours, but I think the clue lies in the term "day-glo". They are of little use at night, if a car headlight catches them full on they show up, but otherwise offer no advantage, whereas the reflectives will show up well even if in the periphery of the headlight spread. Hi Viz jackets generally have reflective panels as well, and some reflective strips/patches are in Hi Viz colours.

fury21

I put the rear and pedal reflectors back on the bike over the weekend :oops: - more to meet the legal requirements than for visibility.

MonkeyMonster

I no longer have mine having taken em off over 10 years ago. 2 rear lights, plus reflective stuff aplenty on body and bag...

irideredthebike

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

Have you tried buying reflectors, though? My bike came without them and I meant to put some on last winter - I asked in several bike shops and they looked at me as if I was a bit odd. :?

Even places like wiggle and Evans don't seem to stock them even though they have a massive range of lights. I have found some reflectors online at Discount Bicycles - and, handily, they seemed to be based very near where I live - I think I'll pop in to stock up!

All bikes sold in Australia are meant to be sold with reflectors. At least one bike shop I know has a box of the ones they have taken off, which they sell for a dollar to anybody who wants them.

TheStone

A rear reflector makes sense, but most lights must also be reflectors?? or am I missing something?

I don't have a front reflector. Maybe worthwhile, but probably won't

Reflectors on wheels seem pointless. When lit, they're great, but due to the angle the driver would see them it's unlikely that they'd avoid a crash.

Reflectors on pedals do make you very visable, but it's not practical in today's SPD world. Should increase the reflection on the shoe and change the law.

TommyEss

TheStone wrote:

A rear reflector makes sense, but most lights must also be reflectors?? or am I missing something?

With the new LED lights there's really not much there to reflect light back, certainly nothing collimated to actually throw the light back in a neat beam. If you look closely at all the fixed reflectors (not the shiny silver stuff on clothing etc.) you'll see it comprises of lots of triangular bumps or similar, all angled to reflect the light back towards the light source. They're are a number of different angles to cover the majority of angles light may hit you from.

I have the Cateye AU-100, which has a few LEDs at the top, and a conventional looking reflector built in to the bottom portion.

sarajoy

I added a couple of rear reflectors to my rear rack with cable ties (no point putting them back on the seat stem, it's too short to have a saddle bag AND a reflector visible) after the first reflectives thread!

Maybe I should glue a reflective strip to my shoes - won't be amber, though... :P

I feel the need to post my smileyvest again...

TommyEss

I had to wear a hi viz vest yesterday whilst marshalling the veterans race at Stoke Row - I hated it - even just standing still in it felt horrible.

I had it in my head that I would never wear one as I think they look gash - and then I finally get to wear one, and all I can think is "Gash, gash, gash, gash, gash!"

So I'll stick to my reflectives for the night time, and bright reds etc. for the daytime (with a positive riding style keeping me in people's line of sight)

Despite all that - Loving your vest Sara - just not for me! :P

choirboy

How aboutt these: http://www.activeglow.com/Iron%20On.htm