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Adding salt?

37monkey37monkey Posts: 141
edited September 2009 in Training, fitness and health
I've started making up my own drinks to ride with - mostly due to the cost of pre mixed stuff - but should I be adding salt to the mix or not?
At present, for every litre, I'm mixing a table spoon of glucose powder (about 12g give or take) with 1/8 of a teaspoon of salt (about 0.5g) and squash to taste, but even with a decent amount of squash I can still taste the salt.
Also when I get back from a ride I've stated to drink 500ml of whole milk with a whole banana blended in to make the best tasting milkshake ever, I don't know if this is an effective recovery drink but it does taste soo good!

Posts

  • pianomanpianoman Posts: 706
    500ml of whole milk

    Are you sponsored by your local dairy :shock:
  • 37monkey37monkey Posts: 141
    not yet!
  • freehubfreehub Posts: 4,257
    I don't think there is enoough protein in that to call it a recovery drink tbh.

    I also don't think there is anything wrong with adding salt to drinks on the go, I've being told to add salt and it does sort of make sense since you do loose allot when sweating.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    37monkey wrote:
    I don't know if this is an effective recovery drink but it does taste soo good!

    It isn't - by definition it is impossible for a recovery drink to taste nice!
    Faster than a tent.......
  • BhimaBhima Posts: 2,145
    freehub wrote:
    I don't think there is enoough protein in that to call it a recovery drink tbh.

    16g in 500ml. Enough to get things going, until you eat some proper food. It'll be slow-release though, so it's best before bed and wont get into your system that quickly. Whey protein is quick-release but wont get slowed down by milk, as most people tend to think.

    There have been various studies which show chocolate milkshake to be beneficial for recovery. I think protein-rich milkshakes tend to make you feel relaxed instantly because of thier bulky/heavy effect on your stomach. They just make you feel full basically, giving an impression of "recovery".
  • freehubfreehub Posts: 4,257
    When I feel full I don't feel recovered, I just feel full from eating some food.

    You are quite right about milk though, I've only ever looked at how much protein milk has in and looks, seen 3.4g and thought that's nothing, but that as per 100ml I've finally noticed, I drink lots of milk so must be helping me.
  • pianomanpianoman Posts: 706
    I think protein-rich milkshakes tend to make you feel relaxed instantly because of thier bulky/heavy effect on your stomach. They just make you feel full basically, giving an impression of "recovery".

    Or to put it another way, quality over quantity. Try Galaxy milk drink - it's available at most BP garages and if your club run has been particularly tough it's a treat :D
  • freehub wrote:
    I don't think there is enoough protein in that to call it a recovery drink tbh.

    I also don't think there is anything wrong with adding salt to drinks on the go, I've being told to add salt and it does sort of make sense since you do loose allot when sweating.
    milk based smoothie is as good a rcovery drink as you can buy.
    I put strwaberries, bananas and grapes in mine.
    As for adding salt, all you need is a balanced diet, no need to add salt in drinks at all.
    In fact if you add too much slat to food or drinks you can end up with blood pressure issues.
    Unless you plan on cycling in the desert in which case it is ok to add a little salt. :D
  • Gav888Gav888 Posts: 946
    I use milk as a recovery drink, but add 2 scoops of protein powder to it....
    Cycling never gets any easier, you just go faster - Greg LeMond
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    I recover by using a very expensive and rare tincture made from Eddy Merckx's evaporated sweat crystals and the crushed remains of Tyler Hamilton's elusive chimera twin, dissolved in Jan Ullrich's urine.

    It tastes nice but I've yet to see any improvement.
  • pbt150pbt150 Posts: 338
    In response to the OP - generally if you can taste the salt you've added to squash you're putting a bit too much in. I can't remember the exact molarity is you should be aiming for, but it's about a pinch in a litre.

    And for recovery, about 1/4g protein per kg body weight, and 1g carbs per kg is about right straight after getting back from a ride, so 500ml milk + a banana is quite a good start. Putting some Nesquik in the milk also adds some vitamins and sugar.
  • pbt150 wrote:
    In response to the OP - generally if you can taste the salt you've added to squash you're putting a bit too much in. I can't remember the exact molarity is you should be aiming for, but it's about a pinch in a litre.

    And for recovery, about 1/4g protein per kg body weight, and 1g carbs per kg is about right straight after getting back from a ride, so 500ml milk + a banana is quite a good start. Putting some Nesquik in the milk also adds some vitamins and sugar.

    +1 for the 4 to 1 ratio of carbs to protein. It's supposed to be the optimum ratio to aid recovery. Too much protein has a negative effect so be careful not to load up on it after a session on the bike

    http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/nutrition/a/aa081403.htm

    I drink 'For Goodness Shakes' occasionally when I can't be bothered and this follows the 4 to 1 ratio also.
  • BlondeBlonde Posts: 3,188
    Adding only sodium chloride (table salt) to drinks isn't ideal as Sodium is not the only "salt" (ion) you lose in sweat. You also lose these other electrolytes (electrically charged ions) in sweat:
    * potassium (K+)
    * chloride (Cl-)
    * calcium (Ca2+)
    * magnesium (Mg2+)
    * bicarbonate (HCO3-)
    * phosphate (PO42-)
    * sulfate (SO42-)

    That's what may need replacing whilst you are cycling. I'm not sure you need to replce them specifically afterward though (other than by eating normal meals) unless you finish your rides de-hydrated. You should really aim to hydrate properly on the bike - using drink/foods with electrolytes added if needed, but you may find you don't need any extra electrolytes anyway, unless it's hot weather or there's a lot of climbing when you'll sweat more. Bear in mind that your kidneys work to keep the electrolyte concentrations in your blood constant despite changes in your body, so, when you exercise heavily, you lose electrolytes in your sweat in order that the concentration of electrolytes in your body will stay the same. Therefore it is really important to replace the fluid, not just the salts that you lose, or you end up with even more concentrated levels in your body which puts a strain on your kidneys.
  • have any cyclist died of hypoatremia?

    Generally some regular salt and some low sodium salt will do the main ones.

    The point of adding them to your drink for riding is to not effectively dilute yourself too much... I tend to use sis regio post ride, works well for me and doesn't give me too much gas!
  • have any cyclist died of hypoatremia?

    Generally some regular salt and some low sodium salt will do the main ones.

    The point of adding them to your drink for riding is to not effectively dilute yourself too much... I tend to use sis regio post ride, works well for me and doesn't give me too much gas!

    Not sure but sadly a staff member at my local David Lloyds died from it after running a marathon. Unfortunately he drank too much after the event and over dilueted.

    Very sad but am sure it's quite rare.
  • ClemClem Posts: 546
    For Goodness Shake is 90% skimmed milk, 9% fruit juice and 1% min/vit mix... and they claim a 40% improvement in results, three days after heavy cycling/exercise, compared with those who just 'recover' using water or isotonic drinks.

    I imagine that 90+% of the result would be achieved by drinking skimmed milk on its own. Bung in some fruit juice/honey and take a multi-vit tablet and you're almost there!
  • Clem wrote:
    For Goodness Shake is 90% skimmed milk, 9% fruit juice and 1% min/vit mix... and they claim a 40% improvement in results, three days after heavy cycling/exercise, compared with those who just 'recover' using water or isotonic drinks.

    I imagine that 90+% of the result would be achieved by drinking skimmed milk on its own. Bung in some fruit juice/honey and take a multi-vit tablet and you're almost there!

    Sadly the same applies to almost all nutritional products on the market but in general people (me included) like to waste money and are too lazy to make their own.

    However, although I wast money on a bottle of FGS per week I do make my own protein based shakes from skimmed milk powder, milk, nuts/seeds, banana, dried fruit and oats. Same result only at 1/10th of the price.
  • TommyEssTommyEss Posts: 1,855
    I'm in the lazy camp - but I do find the For Goodness Shakes very tasty - both the chocolate and the berry one are very palatable IME.

    God knows if it's really doing anything, but I'm a dedicated amateur, not a pro, so don't think it matters greatly!
    Cannondale Synapse 105, Giant Defy 3, Giant Omnium, Giant Trance X2, EMC R1.0, Ridgeback Platinum, On One Il Pompino...
  • ClemClem Posts: 546
    Yes, I think the berry flavour is v nice.

    Tesco is doing the range for £1 a bottle at the moment.

    For comparison Co-op does a litre of their own milkshake (using British certified milk) for £1.19 - it has the same carb/protein ratio as fgs so doubtless would offer much the same benefit. Strawberry and banana versions seem acceptable. I haven't bothered with the choc version as it's got more fat in it and I eat plenty of real chocolate as it is!
  • Probably exactly the same thing although FGS is endorsed by the Royal Institute of Sport :wink:

    But being cynical about sports related testing the 40% improvement was probably only carried out on 5 people :?
  • fliteflite Posts: 154
    I do make my own protein based shakes from skimmed milk powder, milk, nuts/seeds, banana, dried fruit and oats. Same result only at 1/10th of the price.

    Escargot - can you give a bit more detail on your recipe, please. I can't stand the taste of most commercial drinks, so I need to make my own.
    For hydration, I just use 50:50 pure fruit juice and water with a few grains of salt - works for me. So do Nuun tablets, and they are very convenient to use. But I am not up to speed on recovery drinks etc.
    Thanks
  • ClemClem Posts: 546
    Escargot wrote:
    Probably exactly the same thing although FGS is endorsed by the Royal Institute of Sport :wink:

    But being cynical about sports related testing the 40% improvement was probably only carried out on 5 people :?

    Their website says it was a test involving 24 people, a large sample - their words.

    If you read the small print on the bottle it says one, within 20 mins of exercising and one two hours later.
    The website specifies that the subjects did not use caffeine, alcohol or anti-inflamatories... the 40% figure is massive though I don't think it relates to an actual improvement, just that the subjects on FGS did that much better than those who just used water/isotonic.

    That's not a 40% 'improvement', which would be amazing and would have us all speeding over mountains at 25mph!
  • dbmnkdbmnk Posts: 217
    Blonde wrote:
    Adding only sodium chloride (table salt) to drinks isn't ideal as Sodium is not the only "salt" (ion) you lose in sweat. You also lose these other electrolytes (electrically charged ions) in sweat:

    * sodium (Na+) 145mM
    * potassium (K+) 5mM
    * chloride (Cl-) 110mM
    * calcium (Ca2+) 1.5mM
    * magnesium (Mg2+) 0.5mM

    and don't bother about the organic ions, your body makes them itself.

    Now problem is you cannot add only the ionized forms, so most likely you'll add chloride salts (NaCl) and get a surplus of chloride, shouldn't be too bad though.
  • Flite wrote:
    Escargot - can you give a bit more detail on your recipe, please. I can't stand the taste of most commercial drinks, so I need to make my own.
    For hydration, I just use 50:50 pure fruit juice and water with a few grains of salt - works for me. So do Nuun tablets, and they are very convenient to use. But I am not up to speed on recovery drinks etc.
    Thanks

    I make my own isotonic drink as well so am with you on that one :)

    I have two protein shake recipes. The first was posted on the EIS website a while back (English Institute of Sport) by their nutritionalist Karen Reid and is as follows:

    50g Skimmed milk powder
    500ml Fresh milk
    Milkshake powder

    Totals per pint:

    539 kCals
    35.2g protein
    99.2g carbs
    1.2g fat
    Cost 81 pence

    The ratio is not quite 4 to 1 but bear in mind this is a protein shake and not a recovery shake.

    For the second recipe I basically make a variation of the above by substituting the milkshake powder by adding 50g oats, 1 banana and 50g dried fruit/nuts. This adds natural sweetness, more carbs and a shade more protein but gives you something closer 4 to 1. You may want to play around though as my recipe comes out extremely thick (you almost have to eat it LOL).

    It's also worth bearing in mind that these are slightly different to buying whey protein as they are relatively high in calories. However if cycling for 4 hours or doing a solid weights session in the gym then you probably need the calories anyway.

    Hope this helps :D
  • Clem wrote:
    Their website says it was a test involving 24 people, a large sample - their words.

    If you read the small print on the bottle it says one, within 20 mins of exercising and one two hours later.
    The website specifies that the subjects did not use caffeine, alcohol or anti-inflamatories... the 40% figure is massive though I don't think it relates to an actual improvement, just that the subjects on FGS did that much better than those who just used water/isotonic.

    That's not a 40% 'improvement', which would be amazing and would have us all speeding over mountains at 25mph!

    Do they really think 24 is a large sample size. LOL.

    I get you on the 40% though. When I read the bottle I interpreted it as 40% better output than if you didn't drink FGS at all.

    So your normal 100% performance would stay the same but you'd be 40% better off after a day or two (after a heavy workout) than if you just drank water.

    I completely missed the need to drink two bottles though so maybe that's the reason my legs still feel like lead 2 days after a big ride :wink:
  • fliteflite Posts: 154
    Many thanks for the recipe, Escargot. I'll get mixing....
  • ClemClem Posts: 546
    I think 24 isn't bad - quite a lot of studies are based on tiny numbers - but what downing two bottles at the right time means to any single athlete/rider is still anyone's guess.

    I had one straight after a 75min run on Wednesday (not an activity I'm that good at) and then ate some food within the next two hours (which would be more usual than just waiting for another drink) in the hope that I'd recover better for a 200km/120-mile tomorrow (Sat)...

    Let you lot know how I get on - we still won't know what effect the FGS had, though!
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