I think I'm getting to the bottom of my knee problem.

freehub

I have being to the physio today, he had a look at my knee, then the scan, he seems to think it's pain to do with the patella or something, there is a special name for it but I can't remember it, he thinks it's related to a muscle imbalance, so he gave me an exercise to do.

I stand up against a wall, I tense up the quads, then slowly bend my knees down, keeping the quads tensed, it seems quite tricky, I have to make sure my knee is in line with my foot at all times too.

He has also put some tape across my knee, he said it'll stay on for about 3 days, but I'm not holding much hope for it lasting long I'm sure it's going to stretch, I can go in the shower with it and all that, I should have asked him if I could put some more on by myself as it made an instant difference as far as I could tell, when I bend my leg normally I get clicking, on the bike I get a popping click and also small movements when sat down cause allot of cracking sort of like crushing a snowball sensation, all of the clicking and nearly all of the creaking appears to have being prevented with this bit of tape, I cycled home, I'm sat here now, no pain at the moment!

He said I can still cycle, he said yes, I told him, when I mean cycled, I mean 100+ and going up hills pushing hard, he said it's fine. I'm only going to do a short ride at the weekend though with a long break in-between when I'm watching a road race.

My left knee appears to be getting the same problems as the right knee, but hopefully the exercises will prevent it from getting worse, I have another appointment next week where he will give me some sort of exercise program, I might ask him if there is anything like the tape but lasts for much longer.

In the meantime the exercise he gave me I have to do 10reps 3 times a day.


Took that from CC, anyway I won't be doing a long ride for at least a fortnight, when I go back to Manchester 100 will be uncommon, taking it easy this week, sunday will be about 60 miles, 24 miles to watch a road race.

There is one problem though, the tape, well he said it'd last 3 days, when the effects have already gone, the tape stretched, so my knee cap went back to the bad position it was in and the clicking as a result of the tape failing came back, so is there anything I can do for a more long term soloution that tape, will a bandage work? Am I even able to apply anything to my knee that will seat the knee cap in the correct place? Or do I need someone to be qualified to know where to seat my knee cap?

It was great cycling back from the hospital, no pain, no clicks, when I got home, no pain, no clicks, all due to a simple piece of sticky tape, but it did not last 2 hours.

Thanks
Will

Aggieboy

Depending on your diagnosis you can get these in various types/prices. Check with the Dr. first though.

http://www.physioroom.com/product/Physi ... 38357.html

freehub

I guess I'll have to wait untill next thursday then. Hopefully that is what I need though thanks.

Anyone know what the exercise I mention is called? The one where you stand against a wall, tense the quads and slowly move down still tensing quads and keeping knees in line with feet, hold, then slowly back up, I don't think I am doing it correctly.

Aggieboy

If I had your problem I would honestly put some more tape on, as per the Physio. From your post he didn't seem to be telling you not to do that, rather that the tape would only last about 3 days. I don't see why it would hurt* and it did relieve the pain/discomfort. On Thurs' you could check whether the knee strap would be suitable longer term relief.

*Any Physio's on here feel free to shoot me down in flames.

freehub

Well with the tape on it got rid of clicking and pain, but the tape stretched and I took the damn thing off, then I had a go at putting it back on my self, I don't know if I need to push the knee cap to the side of just pull it with the tape and secure.

The tape is so uncomfortable I might need to shave around the area!!

Aggieboy

freehub wrote:

Well with the tape on it got rid of clicking and pain, but the tape stretched and I took the damn thing off, then I had a go at putting it back on my self, I don't know if I need to push the knee cap to the side of just pull it with the tape and secure.

The tape is so uncomfortable I might need to shave around the area!!

There's your problem, right there - you don't shave your legs!!!!!!!!!! :shock:

freehub

Do you think it was silly of me to take the tape off that the physio put on? Even though I could see where the tape was from the mark it left as it shrunks to it's normal size I guess and all the clicking and pain when sat came back indicating my knee was just how it was before clicking and all that which pretty much indicated the tape was not doing it's job.

Also I'm following the physio's advice with the exercise he gave me and keeping on doing it but it seems like it's actually making it worse! Should I keep on doing the exercise 10reps 3 times a day?

ride_whenever

Sounds like patella tendonitis, got give then squat exercise when i had some a year or two ago.

As for the name, can't help but it's a bit like a ski squat.

freehub

It's not tendonitis apparently, the doctor thought that but then looked at the MRI scan and she said looks fine apart from the cartilage. I'd dare not do squats, my knees relly click like mad.

ride_whenever

fair enough, the exercise you've got is basically a controlled squat!!!!

freehub

Oh right, my legs don't bend far enough to click with that, but for some reason it's making my knees feel worse?

Bhima

I don't see what the problem is with putting new tape on once the old one comes off. You've got nothing to lose by doing it when you think about it.

Rafael Nadal, the Tennis Player has some kind of knee problem and has tape on his knees all the time. Sometimes he'll have new tape put on mid-way through a match.

freehub

I've had a go putting new tape on myself, but I don't know what the physio did but I cannot recreate the results, I put the tape on, my knees still click like mad, when the physio does it, my knees don't click and feel much better.

Bhima

The tape is usually put on with loads of pressure applied, maybe you're just not doing it tight enough...?

Also, it'll make a difference if you do it with your leg straight/bent/halfway bent/etc...

freehub

I tried loads of pressure and straight, still no better, I don't really want to end up forcing my knee cap into a bad position and wearing the cartilage on the other side of my knee, I havent even seen my MRI scan, be interesting to see what it looks like.

freehub

I have being to the Physio today, I have got him to refer me to Manchester Royal Infirmary (should be instant apparently as I'm already receiving treatment).

He did some acupuncture on me today, I was a little scared at first but when the needles went in I hardly felt it, until I started wiggling them about!

He gave me 2 more exercises, one go apparently strengthen my hip muscles and one for my bum cheeks I think lol, he said assuming I do these exercises regular every day for 6 weeks it should help solve the problem and he said at my age the worn cartilage should actually heal back.

He gave me some tape so I can attempt DIY on my knee, he did show me how to do it, weirdly I have to push my knee towards the worn bit and wear the pain is then tape it, but due to how the knee works apparently it moves away from it.

I mentioned cycling to him again and he said don't stop just keep what you are doing. Well the last time I was on the bike was Sunday, I did 45 miles, the weekend is going to be fine apart from the wind, I was thinking of doing around 60 on my own, I've gave up the club runs as they are 100+ I don't know if I should ride but it's being hard going only on the 4th day, but I've cut the cycling down so I must be doing something right.

Aggieboy

freehub wrote:

I have being to the Physio today, I have got him to refer me to Manchester Royal Infirmary (should be instant apparently as I'm already receiving treatment).

He did some acupuncture on me today, I was a little scared at first but when the needles went in I hardly felt it, until I started wiggling them about!

He gave me 2 more exercises, one go apparently strengthen my hip muscles and one for my bum cheeks I think lol, he said assuming I do these exercises regular every day for 6 weeks it should help solve the problem and he said at my age the worn cartilage should actually heal back.

He gave me some tape so I can attempt DIY on my knee, he did show me how to do it, weirdly I have to push my knee towards the worn bit and wear the pain is then tape it, but due to how the knee works apparently it moves away from it.
I mentioned cycling to him again and he said don't stop just keep what you are doing. Well the last time I was on the bike was Sunday, I did 45 miles, the weekend is going to be fine apart from the wind, I was thinking of doing around 60 on my own, I've gave up the club runs as they are 100+ I don't know if I should ride but it's being hard going only on the 4th day, but I've cut the cycling down so I must be doing something right.

Glad to hear you're making progress Will, and if you insist on asking what people think of you (other thread), you're likely to find someone with some different exercises for your bum cheeks!

Headhuunter

It sounds like patellar tracking -

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&so ... ellar+trac

It occurs in cyclists because the outer quad muscle generally becomes much stronger than the inner one, this happens naturally due to muscle usage in cycling. The outer quad muscle (not sure of the tech term), then pulls the patella (the kneecap) across to the right and causes inbalance in tracking across the knee joint and therefore clicking, pain etc.

I do exercises to strengthen my inner quad muscles and stretch the outer quad muscles at the gym to avoid this. There are loads you can do.

freehub

Lol Aggieboy! I bet I will!



Headhunter, from what the Physio says I'm lead to believe the actual wear is on the inside, so my knee cap is being pulled to the left (right leg), the physio pushed my knee cap to the left, taped it, I was confused as I thought, well if it's pulled towards the wear then it's going to rub more, he said that's what people would think but when bending the knee it tracks away from that.

I'm reading some of the websites that where in that google line, and it says take a break from activities that cause pain, well cycling does not cause pain, sitting causes pain and standing.

Basically I'm trying to find ways or excuses to keep cycling, everything suggests I should cycle less really which I am doing, but I don't see anything that says I should stop doing rides.

Headhuunter

freehub wrote:

Lol Aggieboy! I bet I will!



Headhunter, from what the Physio says I'm lead to believe the actual wear is on the inside, so my knee cap is being pulled to the left (right leg), the physio pushed my knee cap to the left, taped it, I was confused as I thought, well if it's pulled towards the wear then it's going to rub more, he said that's what people would think but when bending the knee it tracks away from that.

I'm reading some of the websites that where in that google line, and it says take a break from activities that cause pain, well cycling does not cause pain, sitting causes pain and standing.

Basically I'm trying to find ways or excuses to keep cycling, everything suggests I should cycle less really which I am doing, but I don't see anything that says I should stop doing rides.

The first link says that most people experience tracking to the outside of the leg, but some find their patella tracks inwards and also says that you'll probably experience pain during the action of standing up or sitting/standing for long periods. Anyway, you should probably do what your physio recommends, but as I said, I do stretches that specifically work on the outside of the leg as that muscle often becomes very tight and developed in cyclists. Also squats and lunges that strengthen the inner quad.

freehub

Bringing this back up.

Basically, all the knee pain I was having has seem to have vanished, it only flares up now and again.

I rested my knee for some weeks, then paint went down, then I started training again, higher intensity than I was doing before and more frequent, I thought, this is going to bring my knee problems back, but it did not. I'm wondering if the sort of training I was doing then, and am doing now as caused some muscle to develop that has changed the knee cap position?

The main thing I get now is sometimes my right knee feels abit stiff, or tense, and I either have to lay on my bed, on my side, to the left, with my right leg over to the left, and sort of tense my leg and drag it along, or do this whilst sitting down, which causes a strong click to occur, which maybe my knee cap slotting back into the groove, I do this quite a few times each day and it relives any tension in my knee.

Even the popping sensation that I always used to get to the left corner of my knee closes to my thigh when climbing hills has dissappeared too. Thought I'd have all the problems forever since it was worn cartilage causing it.

squidge03

I had a similar problem to this around october of last year, physio diagnosed it as patella femoral pain syndrome (better known as runners/cyclists knee), pain to the inner underside of the knee cap, its basically an overuse injury (theres loads about it on the net) Decided to ditch all running and cycling until january of this year, Did this and built up training and intensity by about 5% every fortnight. Now alls fine. I tried physio but realised that rest, like nearly all injuries is the best cure.