pedestrians..

jimycooper

in the last two months, i have knocked over/hit 3 peds

First time: cycling lane, man walks infront of me without looking. i go flying, he's knocked over, i brake my arm, he walks off... a bit annoying really, totaly his fault

Second time: start climbing up the small hill to my house, about 220m to go, and this guy comes out from behind a car. Bang into him hard, but neither of us fall over, lucky id say

Third time(TODAY): riding along, going out of brighton. i was doing about 35kmh, see this women walking along the pavement, and then she glances round at me and STILL walks out in front of me! go flying, yet again shes knocked over aswell. pretty shaken up byt this, and im lying in the road, and find myself shouting F*CK not proud of myself, but was all i could think of after this uterly stupid women had done what she had done. i calmered down, and she said sorry ect.. cautously get back on my bike, and the bloddy rear mech and hanger snap back only i had seen this before, could of got her to pay up.

anyhoo, this has got me thinking that either peds have got less aware, or i dont look where im going>? (i think i do........)

thoughts?

MuradK

Personally I have been back from holiday for three days and have hit one pedestrian who though it would be a good Idea to run across the road at a green light from behind a van, couldn’t see them until they were on top on my handle bars, luckily I wasn’t go to fast, I or them could have ended up under the car to the right of me.

And today was coming down hill at a fair speed, group of about 7 teens (I’m only 18 my self) see me coming down but cross any way I nearly hit them and of corse they try and pick a fight, had about 4 other run ins with motorist with total disregard for cyclists. I have never had this much trouble on the road the whole time I have been cycling but that’s a whole other topic.

spen666

Both of you want to look at your riding.

most people do not hit pedestrians as they ride being observant about their surroundings and going at a speed that enables them to avoid accidents.

It is unlikely that so many incidents are completely without any element of blame on your part even if majority of blame is on other party.

MuradK

I first woman ran out infort of me from behind a tall van, how could I have any way of seeing her? the second they new they shouldnt have crossed.... I am assuming you dont live or ride in London much.
I don’t think there is any severely thing wrong with my riding, however, I acknowledge that improvements need to and will be made. The incidence with those pedestrians was of no fault of my own and I can say that with confidence.

spen666

MuradK wrote:

I first woman ran out infort of me from behind a tall van, how could I have any way of seeing her? the second they new they shouldnt have crossed.... I am assuming you dont live or ride in London much.

Should you be riding at such a speed when you have a blind spot infront of you?

You should reduce your speed to suit the conditions. It is clear from your comments that some of the blame ( not all) attaches to you and your attitude. You are exhibiting the same sort of attitude one expects sadly from drivers of BMW or 4x4s - ie "its my right to the road and sod anyone who gets in my way"

And despite what you think, I do both live and ride in London and commute daily into and across the city of London

I don’t think there is any severely thing wrong with my riding, however, I acknowledge that improvements need to and will be made. The incidence with those pedestrians was of no fault of my own and I can say that with confidence.

The first improvement you can make is not to assume you are not to blame for any part of an accident. For if you are not in anyway part of the problem then there clearly is no need to change your riding. 2 incidents in 3 days would suggest otherwise. You should be riding according to the conditions

The Chingford Skinhead

True-ish spen but it does sometimes feel like there are an increasing number of pedestrians who are either distracted by texting, listening to ipods or whatever and fail to either look or look but badly estimate the speed of a cyclist.

In MuradK's case, there would be no chance of seeing the ped if they appear from in front of a van due to the van's height - didn't the green cross code always say cross where you can be seen? A pedestrian walked (well ran actually) out in front of a bus in a layby and straight into my path. I was only doing 10mph but I had no chance and a bad landing meant a separated AC joint (shoulder balde and collar bone) while he walked away. I have a lot of sympathy for peds caught by cyclists on crossings or pavements though I generally find (from paper blogs) that they don't recognise the dangers they pose to us by j-walking or the far greater real danger to them by cars RLJing or driving on pavements.

spen666

The Chingford Skinhead wrote:

True-ish spen but it does sometimes feel like there are an increasing number of pedestrians who are either distracted by texting, listening to ipods or whatever and fail to either look or look but badly estimate the speed of a cyclist.

There are indeed an increase in pedestrians failing to take due observation, but that is all the more reason for the cyclist to be extra vigilant and ride slower in such places

In MuradK's case, there would be no chance of seeing the ped if they appear from in front of a van due to the van's height - didn't the green cross code always say cross where you can be seen? A pedestrian walked (well ran actually) out in front of a bus in a layby and straight into my path. I was only doing 10mph but I had no chance and a bad landing meant a separated AC joint (shoulder balde and collar bone) while he walked away. I have a lot of sympathy for peds caught by cyclists on crossings or pavements though I generally find (from paper blogs) that they don't recognise the dangers they pose to us by j-walking or the far greater real danger to them by cars RLJing or driving on pavements.

jimycooper

spen666 wrote:

MuradK wrote:

I first woman ran out infort of me from behind a tall van, how could I have any way of seeing her? the second they new they shouldnt have crossed.... I am assuming you dont live or ride in London much.

Should you be riding at such a speed when you have a blind spot infront of you?

You should reduce your speed to suit the conditions. It is clear from your comments that some of the blame ( not all) attaches to you and your attitude. You are exhibiting the same sort of attitude one expects sadly from drivers of BMW or 4x4s - ie "its my right to the road and sod anyone who gets in my way"

And despite what you think, I do both live and ride in London and commute daily into and across the city of London

I don’t think there is any severely thing wrong with my riding, however, I acknowledge that improvements need to and will be made. The incidence with those pedestrians was of no fault of my own and I can say that with confidence.

The first improvement you can make is not to assume you are not to blame for any part of an accident. For if you are not in anyway part of the problem then there clearly is no need to change your riding. 2 incidents in 3 days would suggest otherwise. You should be riding according to the conditions

so your saying that we should ride at a really slow speed, incase a idiotic ped walks infront of us?

thats super

MuradK

spen666 wrote:

MuradK wrote:

I first woman ran out infort of me from behind a tall van, how could I have any way of seeing her? the second they new they shouldnt have crossed.... I am assuming you dont live or ride in London much.

Should you be riding at such a speed when you have a blind spot infront of you?

You should reduce your speed to suit the conditions. It is clear from your comments that some of the blame ( not all) attaches to you and your attitude. You are exhibiting the same sort of attitude one expects sadly from drivers of BMW or 4x4s - ie "its my right to the road and sod anyone who gets in my way"

I was jsut setting off at a green light so I didnt so much hit her as in she ran into me, but I will leave it at that I think. My first post and I get in to an 'argument'. I hope every one isnt as hostile on these fourms was only here to talk about some thing I love...cycling

downfader

MuradK wrote:

spen666 wrote:

MuradK wrote:

I first woman ran out infort of me from behind a tall van, how could I have any way of seeing her? the second they new they shouldnt have crossed.... I am assuming you dont live or ride in London much.

Should you be riding at such a speed when you have a blind spot infront of you?

You should reduce your speed to suit the conditions. It is clear from your comments that some of the blame ( not all) attaches to you and your attitude. You are exhibiting the same sort of attitude one expects sadly from drivers of BMW or 4x4s - ie "its my right to the road and sod anyone who gets in my way"

I was jsut setting off at a green light so I didnt so much hit her as in she ran into me, but I will leave it at that I think. My first post and I get in to an 'argument'. I hope every one isnt as hostile on these fourms was only here to talk about some thing I love...cycling

LOL he's cross examining you (he's a lawyer). Welcome to the forums!



Seriously though. My own riding around here I find little problem with pedestrians, even when riding at speed. I have so far, luckily more than anything else, been able to judge their body movement well enough to slow or brake in time etc.

Closest I've had recently was back in May and a young girl did exactly what your's did Murad, ran out ffrom behind a van. I'd just had the hope pro 3 hubbed wheels installed and stopped pedalling to brake, the suitable clackity-clack of the hub was enough to warn her to stop dead in her tracks.

Infact noisey hubs are great on shared paths too, no need to use the bell, I just stop pedalling. I thought of installing a kazoo on the bike too, LOL, to make some noise when I ride.

spen666

MuradK wrote:

spen666 wrote:

MuradK wrote:

I first woman ran out infort of me from behind a tall van, how could I have any way of seeing her? the second they new they shouldnt have crossed.... I am assuming you dont live or ride in London much.

Should you be riding at such a speed when you have a blind spot infront of you?

You should reduce your speed to suit the conditions. It is clear from your comments that some of the blame ( not all) attaches to you and your attitude. You are exhibiting the same sort of attitude one expects sadly from drivers of BMW or 4x4s - ie "its my right to the road and sod anyone who gets in my way"

I was jsut setting off at a green light so I didnt so much hit her as in she ran into me, but I will leave it at that I think.

Previously you hit a pedestrian, now it seems you have changed your story to she ran into you. Its hard to know what your are saying happened

My first post and I get in to an 'argument'. I hope every one isnt as hostile on these fourms was only here to talk about some thing I love...cycling

You came on here to talk about something you love? Riding into pedestrians?


Everybody has incidents with pedestrians at some time, but when you have had more than one in a short space of time do you not stop to think you may be PART of the problem

mikeyboy12345

Pedestrians belong in the dumbest group of road users I've encountered in the last couple of months of cycling! I'm still amazed by how many simply step into the road without looking. I've never managed to hit anyone yet, and mostly I get a hunch that they're about to do something daft, i.e maybe they're engrossed with their fone, or they've just exited the corner shop and are veering across the pavement as though they MIGHT cross, etc.

But I've had a couple of numpties who have simply turned a sharp 90 degrees without any warning, and without checking, straight into the road. I honestly think the only thing that prevented a collision was me riding in the primary position (i.e the middle of my lane), which bought me a bit more reaction time, plus the fact that a bike is a lot thinner than a car. If I'd been driving then they'd have walked straight under my car wheels. :roll:

MuradK

spen666 wrote:

MuradK wrote:

spen666 wrote:

MuradK wrote:

I first woman ran out infort of me from behind a tall van, how could I have any way of seeing her? the second they new they shouldnt have crossed.... I am assuming you dont live or ride in London much.

Should you be riding at such a speed when you have a blind spot infront of you?

You should reduce your speed to suit the conditions. It is clear from your comments that some of the blame ( not all) attaches to you and your attitude. You are exhibiting the same sort of attitude one expects sadly from drivers of BMW or 4x4s - ie "its my right to the road and sod anyone who gets in my way"

I was jsut setting off at a green light so I didnt so much hit her as in she ran into me, but I will leave it at that I think.

Previously you hit a pedestrian, now it seems you have changed your story to she ran into you. Its hard to know what your are saying happened

My first post and I get in to an 'argument'. I hope every one isnt as hostile on these fourms was only here to talk about some thing I love...cycling

You came on here to talk about something you love? Riding into pedestrians?


Everybody has incidents with pedestrians at some time, but when you have had more than one in a short space of time do you not stop to think you may be PART of the problem

Hold up, did you see what happened? No, now please take some time off work, stop grilling me, twisting my words then crawl back in to the corrupt system you crawled out of Mr. Lawyer

I really dont want to carry this on any further but its really starting to piss me off that you can be so up your own arse. Now stop flaming.

spen666

MuradK wrote:

...
Hold up, did you see what happened? No, now please take some time off work, stop grilling me, twisting my words then crawl back in to the corrupt system you crawled out of Mr. Lawyer

I really dont want to carry this on any further but its really starting to wee-wee me off that you can be so up your own ars*. Now stop flaming.

Hang on just a minute- you werethe one who firstly came on here boasting about how many pedestrian incidents you have had in recent days- you hit one pedestrian, then change your story to claim they walked into you.

You tell us you came on here to talk about something you love, yet you are talkingabout hitting pedestrians. Is this what you love.

you are posting in a campaign section- are you campaigning for more people to do what you love- ie hitting pedestrians.?

When you have several incidents involving pedestrians in a short space of time, it is not unreasonable to suggest you need to look at your riding style. If that is unpalatable to you, then its tough. You seem to take the suggestion that you look at your riding style as me blaming you as the sole cause of the accidents. That is untrue for several reasons: -

1. Accidents rarely have a single cause. They are usually caused by a combination of factors eg, too much speed for the conditions, lack of observationing, actions of a 3rd party etc

2. looking at your own riding style is a critical self evaluation to see what you can do differently to AVOID a similar situation resulting in an accident. It is not about saying it is your sole fault.

The aim is to avoid accident, not have them but blame others for them

Use of the highway involves us all in looking critically at what we do at all times and adapting to the conditions

cedargreen

Changing direction without warning; stepping into the road without looking- from a road user's point of view seem unreasonable and stupid but pedestrians aren't road users- they are just people walking along. And being free to change direction suddenly is just part of walking. It's a natural human activity. Pedestrians have by and large got used to motor vehicles, often relying on hearing to detect their presence. As a cyclist, you need to be aware that pedestrians will behave spontaneously and won't always hear bikes approaching, and ride accordingly. You can't always avoid collisions, but 3 in a sort space of time suggests you are not taking account of pedestrian behaviour patterns.

downfader

I scared a poor guy today who was walking across a road. I'm heading uphill and theres a lady on an electric bike ahead further up and he's ambling across after she'd passed. I decided to take a wide berth and give him space, he's in his 60s. But as I pass on behind (and I mean like 5-6 feet) him he suddenly has a look of "oh I remember now" and turned around. Saw me and jumped right out of his skin.

LOL I dont think I'm that quiet, I was wheezing a fair old bit.

Mark1962a

Spen 666 sums it up and shows his true character when he discriminates against every BMW and 4X4 Driver on the road - Pathetic

I funny enough do not drive either a BMW or a 4X4 but am old and wise enough to know better than to make sweeping statements like that about drivers of a certain make or type of vehicle.

Any accident should make you look closer at yourself regardless of who the actual fault lies with.

Pedestrians clearly do lack the ability to estimate the true speed of a cyclist and allowances whereever possible have to be made - I have not hit anyone fortunately either but often cover the brakes ready!!

reutercrooks

spen666 wrote:

MuradK wrote:

...
Hold up, did you see what happened? No, now please take some time off work, stop grilling me, twisting my words then crawl back in to the corrupt system you crawled out of Mr. Lawyer

I really dont want to carry this on any further but its really starting to wee-wee me off that you can be so up your own ars*. Now stop flaming.

Hang on just a minute- you werethe one who firstly came on here boasting about how many pedestrian incidents you have had in recent days- you hit one pedestrian, then change your story to claim they walked into you.

You tell us you came on here to talk about something you love, yet you are talkingabout hitting pedestrians. Is this what you love.

you are posting in a campaign section- are you campaigning for more people to do what you love- ie hitting pedestrians.?

When you have several incidents involving pedestrians in a short space of time, it is not unreasonable to suggest you need to look at your riding style. If that is unpalatable to you, then its tough. You seem to take the suggestion that you look at your riding style as me blaming you as the sole cause of the accidents. That is untrue for several reasons: -

1. Accidents rarely have a single cause. They are usually caused by a combination of factors eg, too much speed for the conditions, lack of observationing, actions of a 3rd party etc

2. looking at your own riding style is a critical self evaluation to see what you can do differently to AVOID a similar situation resulting in an accident. It is not about saying it is your sole fault.

The aim is to avoid accident, not have them but blame others for them

Use of the highway involves us all in looking critically at what we do at all times and adapting to the conditions[/quote

The initial statment was not a boast.

The best way to reply to any of your posts would be a simple 'yes, whatever you say, you are always right'

simple_salmon

spen666 wrote:

MuradK wrote:

...
Hold up, did you see what happened? No, now please take some time off work, stop grilling me, twisting my words then crawl back in to the corrupt system you crawled out of Mr. Lawyer

I really dont want to carry this on any further but its really starting to wee-wee me off that you can be so up your own ars*. Now stop flaming.

Hang on just a minute- you werethe one who firstly came on here boasting about how many pedestrian incidents you have had in recent days- you hit one pedestrian, then change your story to claim they walked into you.

Where is he boasting? MuradK posted his own experience in response to that described by the OP - something that all normal forum users do.

Why do you have to treat all comments like they're in a court of law - claiming someone changed their story for example.

Way to go to put someone off joining the community.

spen666

simple_salmon wrote:

spen666 wrote:

MuradK wrote:

...
Hold up, did you see what happened? No, now please take some time off work, stop grilling me, twisting my words then crawl back in to the corrupt system you crawled out of Mr. Lawyer

I really dont want to carry this on any further but its really starting to wee-wee me off that you can be so up your own ars*. Now stop flaming.

Hang on just a minute- you werethe one who firstly came on here boasting about how many pedestrian incidents you have had in recent days- you hit one pedestrian, then change your story to claim they walked into you.

Where is he boasting? MuradK posted his own experience in response to that described by the OP - something that all normal forum users do.

Why do you have to treat all comments like they're in a court of law - claiming someone changed their story for example.

Way to go to put someone off joining the community.

if I put off someone who doesn't like having the fact they change their story- then so be it.

In this case the poster in question changed his story from having hit a pedestrisan, to that pedestrian walking into them. Is it unreasonable to seek to find the truth?

People need to look at their own actions when involved in accidents. That is not saying they are responsible, but if people start by looking at their own behaviour on the road, then we will have less accidents.

Every collision involving a pedestrian and a cyclist will reduce the standing of cyclists everywhere- irrespective of the real cause of the incident.

sicknote

I both drive and ride :shock:

I know evil

I have had the same thing driving and riding and have been lucky both times to have seen them just in time to let them know I was there.

On the bike I was riding to work ( in London at the time ) and going through Camden, muppet walks out in between some buses and shout at him ( he was not on a crossing ), he gives me a dirty look but I just saved him from getting hurt :? :roll:
If I was driving a car and some one does this it would they fault not mine so why should it be any different on a bike?

People will look you in the face and walk in front of you, which I had some school kids do but they did not think I would stop to talk to the one that did this slowly, which I did :twisted:

I dont think he will do that again any time soon if at all but he would not have done that to a car :roll:

People dont not look most of the time when crossing the road and will not think that they did something wrong.

Like the guy in camden as he started to have a go at me.

simple_salmon

spen666 wrote:

if I put off someone who doesn't like having the fact they change their story- then so be it.

In this case the poster in question changed his story from having hit a pedestrisan, to that pedestrian walking into them. Is it unreasonable to seek to find the truth?

People need to look at their own actions when involved in accidents. That is not saying they are responsible, but if people start by looking at their own behaviour on the road, then we will have less accidents.

Every collision involving a pedestrian and a cyclist will reduce the standing of cyclists everywhere- irrespective of the real cause of the incident.

Spen, it's not your sentiments, it's your way of expressing them. As my mum says - it's not what you say, it's the way you say it.

Most people treat the internet and forums as more like a chat down the pub than a court of law (where every statement has to be backed up with evidence and then ripped apart by people who think we're all computers with perfect memories and ways of expressing ourselves).

Why can't you just interact like most people on here do? If proper legal advice is wanted then it will be asked for.

spen666

simple_salmon wrote:

...
Why can't you just interact like most people on here do? ....

Why ? Because I am me- not you or someone else

on the road

A lot of pedestrians don't have any road sense. I've been amazed at the number of people who walk straight into the road without looking.

tarquin_foxglove

Don't worry the Government are about to do something about it...
from the Telegraph

spen666

I observed an interesting (to me at least) situation today.

I saw more than one pedestrian walking in direction I was riding, step out from the pavement into the cycle lane. [This did not cause me to swerve or anything as I was far enough away and riding at a speed that enabled me to take appropriate action]

What is interesting about that?

It seems that pedestrians know there won't be motorised traffic ( which can harm them) in that 2-3feet wide strip of road, so step pout into it without looking as they do not perceive a danger.

In this respect if my interpretation is correct, the provision of cycle lanes is actually making cyclists more likely to have accidents with pedestrians

reutercrooks

spen666 wrote:

Both of you want to look at your riding.



It is unlikely that so many incidents are completely without any element of blame on your part even if majority of blame is on other party.

Excellent, your opening statement quotes the bleeding obvious and then use this as your argument to troll the other people on this particulaur thread. I like your style you legal beagal, now do you do any conveyancing?

bobpzero

ive found shouting hello very loudly helps. i do use a bell for the cycle path. but this would make me consider buying a fog horn because the bell seems really useless at times.

sirmy

I'd like to propose a new religion.

We should all worship at the feet of the great all knowing Spen666 whose understanding of all things is beyond question, who sees with such clarity that we mere mortals can never hope to achieve his level of perfection and who has the gift of distant sight, so ably demonstrated on this thread.

My main fear is that we are just not worthy of his greatness - WOE IS ME!, OH, WOE IS ME!

spen666

sirmy wrote:

I'd like to propose a new religion.

We should all worship at the feet of the great all knowing Spen666 whose understanding of all things is beyond question, who sees with such clarity that we mere mortals can never hope to achieve his level of perfection and who has the gift of distant sight, so ably demonstrated on this thread.

My main fear is that we are just not worthy of his greatness - WOE IS ME!, OH, WOE IS ME!

Riding defensively and riding at a speed that is appropriate to the conditions is how everyone should be riding- its not rocket science

megilleland

A bad case of a cyclist involved in a collision with a pedestrian - won't help the cycling cause. I travel through a supermarket carpark everyday on the way to work and I reckon its one of the most dangerous locations to cycle. Cars reversing back and forwards, people pushing trolleys all over the place and kids running around - you really have to keep your wits about you. I hope she recovers ok. Not much information about what exactly happened.