riding a mtb on trails ??

buduk

just want a point in the right direction really ,i am reaching the tender age of 40 and have been on couple of trails recently with my kids ,and loving it ,but i want to try and advise my kids on when to brake how to brake etc or is it the same basics as on the roads ? nothing major just the bare basics till we get a bit better eg to move over when faster riders aproach which happens a lot but we'll get quicker

t-bone-king

You generally want to brake before a turn rather than during as this gives you more control. Also, don't jam on the brakes- prepare to brake early and then brake lightly, gently applying more pressure as and if required. This'll reduce skidding.

Just another pointer- make sure the kids (and maybe you ) get into the habit of easing off the pedals when changing gear or the chain will wear and break sooner.

buduk

which brakes though do i use front at all coz tbh i have told the kids to leave it alone as for the other guide just a bit like a motor bike

supersonic

Use both. Though a beginner may be well to use the rear to start as a handful of front can put you over the bars. Just feather the front and get used to it.

With experinece you learn the front provides the greatest stopping power - the rear can be used to control the bike. I use about 80% front, 20% rear.

Be wary of surface changes.

Thewaylander

also moving your weight back on braking can assist with stopping the rear whell going light and skidding allowing more aggressive braking. This also helps on steeper sections

buduk

thanks for the info will help alot just had a go on it and tbh awsome now all the kids are looking wierd at me !!! nearly 40 yr old bald fat git popping wheelies in the car park lmao

mugs

Get some speed up, lean forward and get your weight on the bars and jam the back brake on, you'll skid for weeks. Not a great way of slowing down, but fun allthesame, just about the first thing I did when getting back on a bike after far too many years off one.

Seriously though, start with the back brake while getting used to the bike and going slowly, then learn to use both, and progress to mostly the front. It's explained quite nicely here; SheldonBrown

dave_hill

I'm pretty surprised at the number of people who insist that off-road you should do all your braking on the front.

Yes, I know the theory behind it and the physics too, but on loose/muddy/rocky/off-camber/rooty surfaces (which let's face it is most off-road riding) - you want your front wheel to keep turning at all costs.

Reason? Because its very hard/nigh on impossible to steer with a front wheel that isn't turning. Plus a wheel which is turning slowly has more rolling resistance than one which is turning quickly - in other words if you're barrelling down a rocky descent hanging on your front brake and you hit a rock/root/other imovable object what happens? Correct, wheel stops, you go over the bars.

I maintain that off road, you use your back brake to scrub off most of your speed and the front brake to feather.

robertpb

Braking in time is instinctive.

It's co-ordination between the eyes, ears and the body to adjust the hand to put the right pressure on the lever.

The eyes read the trail for information of when and where to brake, the ears listening if front or back is going into a skid, the body working out where the balance of the bike is.

We can take it as read that the front has the biggest potential for braking.

For me it's hard to say what percentage is back and front, but the biggest percentage is without a doubt on the front. The only time that changes is when the mud level is pretty high.

Mind I still went out to test that I wasn't talking rubbish here, a down hill trail, loose smooth stones in a gutter weaving around some 80-100 year old trees, requires spot braking all the way down and yes the front was used as much as the rear.

Unless someone has some whizzy electronics to fit to my bike that's as close as I can get to define the percentage.

Next up a man-made gravel track in the woods, the kind where the dryer it becomes the looser and more dodgy it gets, and at the moment it's very dry and plenty of trees to miss on the way down. I think the front won on this one.

The front brake is also a good tool for crashing the bike, the situation when Oh small round things I'm going to hit that tree better bale out into that patch of soft bushes.

But then again I could be as mad as a hatter

supersonic

dave_hill wrote:

I'm pretty surprised at the number of people who insist that off-road you should do all your braking on the front.

Yes, I know the theory behind it and the physics too, but on loose/muddy/rocky/off-camber/rooty surfaces (which let's face it is most off-road riding) - you want your front wheel to keep turning at all costs.

Reason? Because its very hard/nigh on impossible to steer with a front wheel that isn't turning. Plus a wheel which is turning slowly has more rolling resistance than one which is turning quickly - in other words if you're barrelling down a rocky descent hanging on your front brake and you hit a rock/root/other imovable object what happens? Correct, wheel stops, you go over the bars.

I maintain that off road, you use your back brake to scrub off most of your speed and the front brake to feather.

You do - most don't. It is about controlling the front brake, and when done correctly it IS the fastest way to stop in most situations. Of course you judge the conditions and use both brakes either/or accordingly, always taking care of what is under wheel and whether you are cornering. But your last sentance is very sweeping and wrong for most riders.

bluechair84

Nearly always use both brakes. In a straight line you want to scrub off most of your speed with the front brake. If you are meandering along a twisty line it is usually better to control your speed with the rear brake - front for straight sections, rear for turny sections.
But as was said earlier, scrub off all your excess speed before the corners.

But let your kids make mistakes too, they will learn to feel how the bike behaves beneath them much faster than you could teach them through verbal guidance - when they are careening down a steep hill they won't be repeating the rules to themselves, they will be 'feeling' the behaviour of the bike. Leave em to figure 70% out for themselves.

nfrang

Whichever brake you use first ya bodyweight will move forward. So if your carrying speed the back becomes fairly useless. Front is the 'main' brake imho.

dave_hill

supersonic wrote:

You do - most don't.

And that's a pretty sweeping statement too!!

Using your front brake only is fine in a straight line on an even surface.

I know that you shouldn't be braking in corners or on loose surfaces, but inevitably at some stage or other, whatever your skill-level, you're going to have to grab a large handful of brake part way round a corner or on loose or slippery surfaces.

If your instinct is to grab the front brake, you're going to bin it every time.

You'll note that about 99% of riders who ditch one brake for reasons of weight or technical simplicity ditch the front brake.

supersonic wrote:

Of course you judge the conditions and use both brakes either/or accordingly, always taking care of what is under wheel and whether you are cornering.

Correct - which is why I maintain that to advise beginners to do most of their braking on the front is wrong.

dave_hill

nfrang wrote:

Whichever brake you use first ya bodyweight will move forward. So if your carrying speed the back becomes fairly useless.

Which is why if I have to brake hard I push my weight back. This maintains traction on the rear and helps to prevent the wheel from locking, whilst at the same time keeping the front wheel rotating and "light".

supersonic

"Correct - which is why I maintain that to advise beginners to do most of their braking on the front is wrong."

To start with maybe to get used to the feel of a brake (which I actually said to start) - but once used to the front most riders will (and should) use it more than the back. Or to be exact, will use it harder than the back.

Anonymous

when I was a kid and learned to ride a raleigh grifter, my dad told me that in order to brake correctly that apply the back brake 1st then the front. in a quick motion but not hard and control it. this gave me more confidence to ride faster and control myself on the bike, as I got older (in my teens) I took off the front brake and just had a back one.

Now, I use both just like a did as a child.
I must agree with Dave_Hill here, keep the front rolling and "light"....but also what supersonic says, about not using the front so much,,they could fly over the bars and it's a lesson not worth repeating but also a fun lesson for them as they sharp learn (I did).

anyway, good on ya getting ya kids into it mate... more the merrier

Northwind

dave_hill wrote:

Yes, I know the theory behind it and the physics too, but on loose/muddy/rocky/off-camber/rooty surfaces (which let's face it is most off-road riding) - you want your front wheel to keep turning at all costs.

Reason? Because its very hard/nigh on impossible to steer with a front wheel that isn't turning. Plus a wheel which is turning slowly has more rolling resistance than one which is turning quickly - in other words if you're barrelling down a rocky descent hanging on your front brake and you hit a rock/root/other imovable object what happens? Correct, wheel stops, you go over the bars.

Mmm. The thing here is, will a learner who's not comfortable with the basics like braking be doing anything where it becomes such a problem? I think most people will work out stuff like this on easy trails rather than trying to figure it out when they're halfway down a cliff. I can't speak for anyone else but I wouldn't have gone near anything that was actually difficult until I was comfortable with how to handle the bike.

Having said that, looking at the state of the blue route at glentress currently it's pretty obvious that a lot of the novices do all of their braking by grabbing the back brake as hard as they can and sliding for 40 feet before every corner. And that's a risk in itself as a trailfairy might jump out from behind a tree and banjo you with a mcleod.

ride_whenever

@ DH and super

you are now mentioning the differing effects of both brakes in a corner. The rear will tend to pull you upright and straighten you out, whereas the front will tend to cause you to turn more. Both can be used to good effect depending on how shoddily you've come into the loose corner.

Andy B

dave_hill, how many trail riders do you see with only one brake?

Why do lots of bikes come as standard with a larger front rotor for more stopping power & not a larger rear rotor?

landerson61

dave_hill wrote:

I'm pretty surprised at the number of people who insist that off-road you should do all your braking on the front.

Yes, I know the theory behind it and the physics too, but on loose/muddy/rocky/off-camber/rooty surfaces (which let's face it is most off-road riding) - you want your front wheel to keep turning at all costs.

Reason? Because its very hard/nigh on impossible to steer with a front wheel that isn't turning. Plus a wheel which is turning slowly has more rolling resistance than one which is turning quickly - in other words if you're barrelling down a rocky descent hanging on your front brake and you hit a rock/root/other imovable object what happens? Correct, wheel stops, you go over the bars.

I maintain that off road, you use your back brake to scrub off most of your speed and the front brake to feather.

listen to this man! some very good advice here. keeping your front wheel rolling and braking with the rear will give you more stability on rocky/loose surfaces that come with majority of off-road trails. focus on the rear braking if you're a beginner then ease the front brake in as you get a bit more confident, but remembering to feather the front and not to over do it, other wise you'll quickly learn how to face plant a tree/boulder...

you'll find it a lot easier on decents if you keep up your speed, but keep it to a level that you are confident that you can handle. Think of it the same as any bike, the faster your wheels turn, the more stable your bike will be, but like i said, keep it to a level you are comfortable with otherwise you'll over shoot the corners.

supersonic

Honestly, you will become a better rider and stop quicker if you learn how to use the front brake correctly. Your rear wheel will lock far more quickly than the front.

Of course there are circumstances where rear bias is favourable, same for the front.

Anonymous

Front is the brake that does the majority of your slowing down. In fact, if you're decelerating as hard as possible, then it's the ONLY brake you can use.

bails87

I agree, I don't think anyone is suggesting slamming the front brake on as hard as possible, because obviously you'll go over the handlebars. But you're right yeehaa, once you learn how to shift your body weight and precisely feather the front brake you can do the kind of emergency stops where the back wheel is off the ground until you stop. If you braked (broke?!) that hard with the back you'd just skid for miles and not really slow down.

Obviously that all depends on ground condition, slopes, etc etc. Slamming the front on halfway round a slippy corner wont do much good, but thats a rare occurence.

Anonymous

damned straight!

Although, as Sonic says, there are of course occasions where the rear brake is the preferred brake.

Joe_Pineapples

The vast majority of the braking I do is through the front, but there's no right or wrong answer here. You use your brakes as you see fit and using more of one and less of another can alter the line and attitude of your bike through whatever situation you are in.

I remember sitting my motorbike lessons, all of which were in the wet, and you'd be amazed how much braking force you can put through the front brake ONLY before it even thinks about locking. A lot of motorbike racers I know never touch the rear.

Anonymous

Joe, I'd argue that there IS a wrong answer, most of the time.
I've seen several people ride straight into the fence after the first berms in Llandegla - just before the "rollercoaster".
Invariably, they were using their rear brake, and didn't slow down at all. Scarily, some of them were even told to do so by a parent, or other more "experienced" rider.

What's ironic, of course is that they then crate bigger and bigger braking bumps, making it scarier and scarier for newbies, meaning that more inexperienced riders again will grab a handful of (probably rear) brake, and make it worse again.

Joe_Pineapples

It's a learning curve, lol.

Anonymous

dsmiff

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Joe, I'd argue that there IS a wrong answer, most of the time.
I've seen several people ride straight into the fence after the first berms in Llandegla - just before the "rollercoaster".
Invariably, they were using their rear brake, and didn't slow down at all. Scarily, some of them were even told to do so by a parent, or other more "experienced" rider.

You mean here? No brakes at all......I think panic sets in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW6DI7u19lM

Mind you a couple of years later:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK6w7bQUrKc

Anonymous

dsmiff wrote:

You mean here? No brakes at all......I think panic sets in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW6DI7u19lM

Yep, that's definitely the one. I've seen countless people hit that fence.

Good on him though, the kid in the second video (same one, I take it, bit older) has started getting some reasonable speed.

supersonic

WIth a bit of luck the front brake would have vaulted him straight over the fence haha!