Hardtail vs Full Sus

JoeyBob

Hi

I am fairly new to this forum but I felt a need to post tuis anyway. I have been doing trail riding and some light DH on my hardtail Giant Boulder Disk 08 (kenda nevegal tyre's and root MPH 160mm disk breaks as the only change). I go biking almost once a week with my buddies on the trail and can never understand why the hell I always fall off, never ride as fast or be able to take the same line they do.

Today I found out why, my mate has just gone on holiday and said that I could borrow his Specialized XC Pro full sus bike with the shock pump and SPD clips so long as I clean it for when he is back which I call a fair deal. I spend the first 1hr setting up the suspension per his instruction and spend a little more time working out how the SPD clips work and loosen them enough so I can unclip when I come to crash.

I set off from my house with negative thoughts of what to expect but instantly I realise how nice the sus is to ride... The power is sucked up a little by the fox shock at the back but because of the drive it alowes the power to be put in place when I want it.

I did a further 3hrs of xc riding around the local trails and loved every second, might change what I'm doing this weekend and try another 4 hrs...

Final conclusion;

If you have been like me and see your mate dissapear in the dust and see them waiting for you at the end of the trail it might be worth blaming the tools your using IMO I have never ridden that fast on the trail before so I know it's definatly not me. Going to get the wallet and head to the local shop to spend £1400 on a new bike me thinks!?!

Thanks,

Joe

RealMan

No offense, but the giant boulder is not a good bike compared to spesh xc pro thing.

And full sus are easier to ride for beginners, because they are more forgiving. Hardtails take a little more skill.

JoeyBob wrote:

If you have been like me and see your mate dissapear in the dust and see them waiting for you at the end of the trail it might be worth blaming the tools

Always better then blaming yourself, I suppose.

lesz42

what ever works!

JoeyBob

I know the boulder disk sucks it's nice to finally get my hands ona full sus bike I your right it is easyer for newbi's and gave me loads more confidence it was great...

physiosteve

I once read a formula thats says n +1 = no bikes you should have
where n=the number of bikes you currently have

In other words when u get bitten by the bug and keep trying better and better bikes your just not satisfied.
2 yrs ago i had a kona hoss deluxe HT - 34ilbs of well build aluminium HT
Now ive got a steel hardtail thats just brilliant and am gonna convert to a maintanance free single speed. A cove Ti hummer which is sublime.
Now im on hte look out for a 5" full susser for taking in loads of drp offs ad boulder fields, then il probably want a carbon full sus.......etc etc.
I think youv'e justrealised how good bikes are at the next level - go for it, butif u ride a lot of single track try demo a ti bike!!!!!

delcol

don'y buy the talent earn it...

learn your trade on a hardtail then get a fullsuss to reep the benefits of it..

i'm lucky very very very understanding partner and way to much spare cash to have two semi decent bikes a santacruz heckler and a pace rc 305.. to be honest i find myself reaching for the pace hardtail most of the time.. after spending winter riding the h't jumping back on the hekler in spring was a shock to me and my buddies my riding had improved so much.. i was used to riding the hardtail so jumping on the susser opened up better lines and bigger more tecchy stuff. it was the confidence factor for me...

personally i would go for a decent hardtail learn the core skills then look at a full bouncer in the future, you will reep the rewards in the long run..

supersonic

Try a 1400 quid hardtail too - one that weighs say 23lbs. Now compare ;-)

swampi101

+1 delcol

hardtails teach you to ride more smoothly because they are much harsher, once you get a FS harder trails will be a breeze. Im still sticking to my HT though

joshtp

A FS makes everything too easy, if you only want to keep up with your mate, ok, get one, but if you want to be a good rider, and want to beat your bud on any bike, stick with a HT. try a TI HT if your really flash. you would be suprised what 1400 can get with no rear bounce!

uk_mr_brownstone

swampi101 wrote:

+1 delcol

hardtails teach you to ride more smoothly because they are much harsher, once you get a FS harder trails will be a breeze. Im still sticking to my HT though

You certainly try harder when picking your line on a HT

ExeterSimon

I agree with the learn on a HT then get the FS method.

I started with a Spesh Rockhopper before moving onto a Stumpy FSR. Recently purchased a Whyte 905 and I reckon I'm just as quick and skilful on that as I am on the Stumpy. And I put this down to the skills I picked up with the 'Hopper.

Yes the FSR is more forgiving in the rough stuff as you can just piledrive over any rock or root....but with the Whyte I have to pick a better line...which means thinking ahead more and concentrating more.

Don't get me wrong I love the FSR but IMHO I'm a better rider because I learnt on a HT.

geordiefreerider

I find my style of riding, hard tails for years then full suss compared to my brothers, never rode for years then bought a full suss is completely different.

Whereas I still pick my lines and look for the smooth lines letting the shock work when I need it, he just plows through everything depending on the back shock to compensate, I doubt he does it intentionally and I will correct him in time but he's only just started riding again so gonna let him find his feet a bit.

Daz555

The debate on HT v FS is fairly pointless. It's about preference at the end of the day. I prefer FS.

As for the old 'learning on a HT makes you better'. I'm not convinced. For a start I rarely hear anyone extend the argument to fully rigid - surely suspension forks are the biggest 'cheat' of all.

Zeroman_IR

I've no doubt that learning on a HT will make you learn good technique quicker than on a FS but you'll still need the same skills eventually. I personally started on a FS and don't feel that I'm not a "proper" MTBer because I didn't earn my stripes on a HT first.

Plus, the FS is more forgiving as has been mentioned. I've seen a few people buy HTs and give up before they got into the sport properly because of the beating they got in the first few weeks before everything clicks. Equally, I've seen lots of people persevere but my point is that the FS will leave you get away with a lot of those noobie mistakes that on a HT will end in blood. So, at the end of a day, anything that makes our sport more accessible to newcomers should be a good thing, and not couched in needless elitism.

Siix

I have just bought my first proper mountain bike and although (at a push) I could have afforded a £800 - £900 full suss, I decided to go for a hardtail instead. This is for various reasons.

A) The only bike I have ever ridden on a trail before is a hardtail and I really, really, really enjoyed it. so I wasn't massively fussed about blowing my budget on a full suspension bike.

I was slightly put off by a guy who told me "don't go anywhere near a cheap full suspension bike". Not sure whether £800 - £900 really counts as cheap, but I haven't really seen any full suss bikes for less than that on any decent bike websites or in bike shops.

C) I'm drawn to the whole "if you start on a hardtail you learn more skills" argument. It kinda does make sense. And it definately helped me to stay away from spending lots of money on a full suss :P It's also an excuse to ride this HT for a few years and then decide that I want a FS 2 or 3 years time! So then I'll have 2 bikes to have fun on.

teacherman

Get the best bike you can afford that's suitable for the riding you do. Ride it as much as you can and just enjoy it. Everything else is just BS.

Zeroman_IR

teacherman wrote:

Get the best bike you can afford that's suitable for the riding you do. Ride it as much as you can and just enjoy it. Everything else is just BS.

Pretty much what my long-winded post was trying to say

teacherman

Oh yeah :oops:

realnumber 1

joshtp/mbukman wrote:

A FS makes everything too easy, if you only want to keep up with your mate, ok, get one, but if you want to be a good rider, and want to beat your bud on any bike, stick with a HT. try a TI HT if your really flash. you would be suprised what 1400 can get with no rear bounce!

Complete rubbish, if FS makes everything too easy then your not going fast enough tbh.

To the OP, I would try a good HT as well if you can and see what you think but I also know I would not go back to a HT through choice




...

JoeyBob

When I started MTB we were taken out by a mate of ours who does allot of DH now the first few weeks of riding properly we went straight on the black route at our local place he showed us the roap's and although I fell off allot I enjoyed it. I only have 80mm of travel on the front so I can really feel the bumps which makes me as most have said 'pick my line' keeping my eyes on the track.

I think it comes down to not how fast my mate goes it's whether or not at this point I have improved. I think have I got my pedals in the right place? How can I get over the rock garden faster? It all goes through my mind when I get to the bottom shaken but still alive with a bike that cost 1/4 of the man maybe 5-10 seconds infront of me who just goes over everything. Give him a HT and we can see then how fast he thinks he can get down the hill or across the single track...

Going to get a set of SPD's as they are great on the bumpy stuff and my feet stay connected to the bike and I can put more power down when I want it...

el loco pollo

Yeah get the FS bike. You'll do everything faster and more comfortably, and be able to push yourself further, if that's what you want, than if you rode a hard tail.

tubaonwheels

el loco pollo wrote:

Yeah get the FS bike. You'll do everything faster and more comfortably,

What, even uphill?

55NF

Just get one of each

Anonymous

tubaonwheels wrote:

el loco pollo wrote:

Yeah get the FS bike. You'll do everything faster and more comfortably,

What, even uphill?

Actually, yes. Well, possibly, depending on the bike.
On any hill that has any sort of roughness at all to it, both my full-sussers climb better than my hardtail. Even on a tarmac hill, it's a very close call.

el loco pollo

tubaonwheels wrote:

el loco pollo wrote:

Yeah get the FS bike. You'll do everything faster and more comfortably,

What, even uphill?

Yeah, obviously you won't ride a 40lb DH rig faster uphill than an XC hardtail, but on a like for like bike a FS is usually faster uphill. YMMV of course.

largephil

HT= In general, you will pick your line with more care and end up avoiding un-necessary rough stuff, a more technical ride. Also £ per lb you will get a lighter rig so the climbs 'should' be slightly easier (not always the case but generally) XC riders will see a lot of benefit in the HT rig.

FS= More comfort, more ability to blast the downhill and trails, not as much care needed to avoid the rough and in my opinion more fun to ride (not everyone’s opinion). I climb just as well on my FS then my old HT, and I have more fun on the downhill too.

Although I can take a more direct line these days, I do go a lot faster, and that takes different skills so I'd say a FS bike can be as challenging to ride as a HT but for different reasons.

passout

I'd get the FS. You can still push yourself to your limits on a full susser and improve your riding, which is the main thing at the end of the day. Plus you'd be coming from hardtail anyway as a lot of people seem to advice. Get at least another winter out of the hardtail though & try to get some wear out of it before you get your new bike.

paulrockliffe

You NEED one of each. And a rigid. And a DH rig. And a road bike. And a trials bike. And possibly a Single Speed. But definitely not a fixed-wheel bike. Unless you're going to the velodrome?

Don't get sucked intot he whats best debate, neither is, ride them all and you'll learn which are more FUN on which trails and you can decide what you feel like riding on the day. Easy.

I've emphasised the important words above.

militantmandy

paulrockliffe wrote:

But definitely not a fixed-wheel bike. Unless you're going to the velodrome?

classic!

JoeyBob

I think getting one more winter out of it sounds like a good idea might get the SPD's and a new front fork because the ones I have were never meant for what I use it for even came with a warning 'leasure cycling only' I consider a bumpy trail as my 'leasure' riding so that's ok.

I think there will always be a dispute between hardtail vs full sus but I think what it comes down to for me is the harder it is now the easyer it will be later as I have no intention of giving the sport up!?!? But improving and spending a little more on a bike.

delcol

i only use my hardtail in winter it's much easier to maintain and clean to.