'Too many' young offenders jailed?

gkerr4

teagar wrote:

skyd0g wrote:

"Too many young offenders jailed?"

Yes.

Not enough of them are executed.

Let's hope none of your children end up in jail.


Heard a story from a nearby village. Vicar's son, has serious anger issues in that he cannot control himself when he gets really angry. Kicks off about seemingly mundane things. Very respectable family, his siblings are all high achievers etc.

He recently lost control of his temper and assaulted someone who I think either suffered severe injuries or died ( I can't remember, I heard the story from a friend who's father is this vicar's boss). Now, clearly the person assaulted is a victim. By no stretch of the imagination should this guy be let off, just because he has a propensity to this. But isn't this angry guy who assaulted him to? That he is victim of a mental state that would allow him to get into such a frenzied state that he assaulted someone?

Sure he'll end up in jail, and be punished, probably quite rightly. But he is also a victim, just one who needs to be punished.

I'm sorry - but this guy sounds like a nutcase - if he was a dog he'd be a pitbull or something and we would put him down - but sadly because he is a person we have to pay the high cost of prison for him - hopefully for a long long time.

Anonymous

Teagar, I can't express my views if you keep on slapping verbal backhand insults at me. It is obvious you have a great Social care knowledge and I get and respect that but enough of the jellyfish stinging, eh?

zedders

teager,
Sorry mate, you did not say crimes such as assault and theft shouln't be punished. I take it back. But you are giving the impression that they should be punished in another way instead of going to prison? In that case, baring in mind I've said other forms of punishment have been tried, what do you propose? Surely as I keep saying, you get to the point where prison is the only option?

When you say it upsets you when I say ''they can't be bothered'' and that people don't enjoy the life of crime? Just because someone is poor, or living in a deprived area, or have been neglected etc - do they need to turn to crime? No they do not. But again your giving the impression they have no choice? Many older folk live in the same council estates, under the same financial difficulties, and had things much worse than the way things are now, yet they turned out alright.

I appreciate it's a vicious circle, but surely we are getting to a point where we have to draw the line?

I think were getting to the point where we'll have to agree to disagree. But I think your in the minority. Good honest hard working folks have had enough!

tebbit

Recently there was the European Elections were a BNP member was elected to go to Europe and the TV were interviewing an old couple who's 25 year old grandson had never worked, it was all apparently because of imigrants.

No it wasn't it cos he's a scrote who can claim off the dole and blame some poor sod for his predictament, not because of some economic migrant.

With reference to Teagar's comments, they don't have it easy, compared to who, don't they have it easy? I would love to know.

Oh and the name is due to a pet ferret and not any political leaning.

Damn I have got serious and do apologize, not enough young offenders jailed, hanging, they won't reoffend you know!

teagar

dmclite wrote:

Teagar, I can't express my views if you keep on slapping verbal backhand insults at me. It is obvious you have a great Social care knowledge and I get and respect that but enough of the jellyfish stinging, eh?

Sorry - didn't realise I was giving backhanded insults to you. The imperial thing is just a hangover from my degree!

teagar

tebbit wrote:

With reference to Teagar's comments, they don't have it easy, compared to who, don't they have it easy? I would love to know.

People who operate quite happily in society. The average "hard working" person I guess. People who do not get into trouble with the law or live a comfortable life.

teagar

zedders wrote:

teager,
Sorry mate, you did not say crimes such as assault and theft shouln't be punished. I take it back. But you are giving the impression that they should be punished in another way instead of going to prison? In that case, baring in mind I've said other forms of punishment have been tried, what do you propose? Surely as I keep saying, you get to the point where prison is the only option?

When you say it upsets you when I say ''they can't be bothered'' and that people don't enjoy the life of crime? Just because someone is poor, or living in a deprived area, or have been neglected etc - do they need to turn to crime? No they do not. But again your giving the impression they have no choice? Many older folk live in the same council estates, under the same financial difficulties, and had things much worse than the way things are now, yet they turned out alright.

I appreciate it's a vicious circle, but surely we are getting to a point where we have to draw the line?

I think were getting to the point where we'll have to agree to disagree. But I think your in the minority. Good honest hard working folks have had enough!

I agree there is an element of choice in the matter. Unfortunately, i think other circumstances, (such mental/social problems etc), can often skew people's judgement and allow them to make a wrong choice.

Not sure what being in the minority has to do with the discussion though . Plenty of occasions when minorities have turned out to be correct, (though not necessarily in this case! I do think i'm right [naturally], but it doesn't mean i am...).


it may be getting to the point where the line is drawn, but it's all about where that line is drawn. Continental Europe tends to have lower prisoner numbers and lower crime rates, especially with youths, and they tend to lean further towards the views I have been giving that in the UK, at least, that's my experience in the Netherlands.

tebbit

Just because someone wasn't has an "average hard working" and because of it has a comfortable life does not mean they have it easy.

Just because someone does not get in trouble with the law does not mean they have it easy, chap I used to work with died a few weeks before his retirement while climbing a scaffold, still doing manual work in his sixties is not having an easy life.

Or death for that matter.

Myself nearly getting killed in a tunnelling accident in my teens, never been in trouble with the law, but not exactly easy.

Just because people don't get in trouble with the law doesn't mean they have an easy life.

teagar

tebbit wrote:

Just because someone wasn't has an "average hard working" and because of it has a comfortable life does not mean they have it easy.

Just because someone does not get in trouble with the law does not mean they have it easy, chap I used to work with died a few weeks before his retirement while climbing a scaffold, still doing manual work in his sixties is not having an easy life.

Or death for that matter.

Myself nearly getting killed in a tunnelling accident in my teens, never been in trouble with the law, but not exactly easy.

Just because people don't get in trouble with the law doesn't mean they have an easy life.

Never said it was easy. I said it was relative.

tebbit

Relative to what Teagear?

Hang the little b*stards, stop reoffending that way! No one has reoffended after being hung, just look at Ruth Ellis, you don't see her reoffending do you!

No! Perfectly rehabilitated, never went on to reoffend, likewise Timothy Evans, (admittedly a bad example) but he never offended, even in the first place, but he certainly didn't reoffend again.

If Goring had been hung earlier in his life, just think of the countless benefits.

drewfromrisca

When I was a Police Officer in Wales I knew a youth who actually enjoyed going to the Y.O.I.

Actually one incident I remember clearly was on the day of his 3rd, 4th, 5th release, I forget now, and he actually waited on Caerphilly High Street for a panda car to drive past (one which I was driving) and as we saw him he picked up a brick and threw it through the local cafe window. He didn't even run, he walked over to us as we screeched to a halt and put his hands up literally. He said to me that he did it because he knew he couldn't survive the outside world and inside was easier. That incident along with many others made me realise that we are fighting a losing battle and hitting our heads against a brick wall. I don't often feel sorry for criminals but my heart went out to this kid.

passout

dmclite wrote:

I wish I had your understanding teagar. Ive done aid work in W Africa for 5 months and that is poverty, disease and everything that entails. I just can't equate it with living in a civilised developed country and seemingly throwing it all away when everything here is for the taking if you put enough effort in.

I agree that it's all relative - I've seen real poverty in DEVELOPING COUNTRIES by which I mean UNCIVIILISED places [Teagar - something to get your teeth into - I know you've covered it in your degree ].

I must say though that the consequences of poverty in the UK are still significant and social mobility has been decreasing year on year from the mid 1960s. We have basically created an economic underclass which transcends the old class system and it will be extremely difficult to fix. The only workable solution I can think of is what Clinton did with benefits in the States - basically to cut them, making work comparatively I much better choice than the dole. Of course it helps if there are jobs! Clearly though benefits cuts have to be accompanied by education, training, community regeneration etc.

teagar

passout wrote:

I agree that it's all relative - I've seen real poverty in DEVELOPING COUNTRIES by which I mean UNCIVIILISED places [Teagar - something to get your teeth into - I know you've covered it in your degree ].

I should probably leave that for another time

Frank the tank

I was young and idealistic once Teagar.

As you get older reality with a large dash of synacism sets in and you realise the only way forward is to stop being a victim/bleeding heart and get stuck in and earn a living.

The whole system, education,benefits,social services,penal,health service,taxation,policing basically everything needs to be sorted out but it never will be 'cos any party wishing to carry out such reforms would never get into office.

dilemna

Instead of sitting about on their backsides eating pizza and on playstations in YOI or prison they should be out doing hard labour, jobs that really need doing in communities such as clearing up the rubbish and repairing damage most of them cause in the first place. Those who try to escape should be hauled back and with each escape the sentence doubles. That should give them something to think about. Life is far too cushy for them whether on the inside or outside in families claiming hundreds of pounds a week in benefits and working on the sly or dealing drugs.

Discipline in schools is non existant which is 70% of the problem and the parents aren't much older than their kids so are pretty immature as well lacking the parental and social skills to bring them up properly. Britain is very much broken .

grantus

6 months national service then 6 months in Helmand

teagar

Frank the tank wrote:

I was young and idealistic once Teagar.

As you get older reality with a large dash of synacism sets in and you realise the only way forward is to stop being a victim/bleeding heart and get stuck in and earn a living.
.

Why not be both? Out of interest?

Frank the tank

Well, I'm too old to be young and with age (as you will discover my owd) realism/synacism does set in. Not knocking you mi duck, it's great to think you can change the world.

One of the differences between us is we can both see and appreciate the problems in our society but, I realise the "system" is so stacked against the ordinary man we'll never prevail. You still think we can, and best of luck to ya mate.

dilemna

grantus wrote:

6 months national service then 6 months in Helmand

+1 .

passout

We are struggling out there as it is!!