something has to be done about f***ing white van drivers

chuckcork

AndyManc wrote:

sheepsteeth wrote:

why not just wait your turn in traffic like everyone else? and as for undertaking other vehicles :roll:

i love riding my road bike but im not a roadi in the same way as i can lay bricks but im not a bricklayer. i fuckin hate road riders, they cut about like charlie big potatoes getting in the way. if you want the same rights on a road as car drivers, pay some road tax.

Sarcasm I assume ? :roll:

.

If anyone who rides a bike actually wanted to pay road tax (we'd be in the same band as electric vehicles so it would £0.00) how exactly would we do it?

Oh wait, we can't, there isn't any process for paying nothing for a class of "vehicle" that doesn't have an engine, isn't required to display the tax disk, be registered to a keeper or have 3rd party insurance.

I guess that one is sorted for you.

What's your next conudrum, Demand that cyclists in central london should pay the congestion charge because they are obviously causing it?

:roll:

Bhima

I never filter through traffic anymore.

If you stay in the lane behind a car, it's easier to stay in the primary position - if you're at the side, it's harder to cut back in.

Then again, i'm in primary 100% of the time these days.

snooks

sheepsteeth wrote:

why not just wait your turn in traffic like everyone else? and as for undertaking other vehicles :roll:

Hang on, if I wanted to wait in traffic I would drive my car to work.

I think it all depends on the road whether you undertake or not, and unless you know the road the OP was talking about I think it's harsh to make a judgements without knowing the facts. There is no blanket statement that will fit all roads

On my commute for example going from Tower hill toward Southwark Bridge. The traffic is usually stationary, there are no major turnings off left or right, there is a barrier between the east/west bound traffic, and from the ped crossing (top right in the link) there is no room to filter in the middle, or on the right, There is however a 1-2 metre wide cycle lane, and you say I should wait in line rather than use the cycle lane? Pleeeze! Why don't I sell the bike?

I'll quite happily go down the inside at around 20 mph if not more, but slowing at junctions and crossing. Why? Because it usually looks like this there is nowhere for any of the traffic to go, it's stationary, if it starts moving I'll slow to match its speed. I'm usually flanked by motor bikes like this fella (or fellaette) in the cycle lane and I leave myself a big enough breaking distance from the bike in front and don't worry about the motorbikes if they are behind me.

Filtering at speed close to traffic can be dodgy, as the OP found out, but if you have enough room to avoid car doors and allow enough braking distance for idiots there's only 1 reason why you shouldn't, and that's going up the inside of any vehicle indicating left.

DonDaddyD

snooks wrote:

sheepsteeth wrote:

why not just wait your turn in traffic like everyone else? and as for undertaking other vehicles :roll:

Hang on, if I wanted to wait in traffic I would drive my car to work.

Well said +1

Dudu

sheepsteeth wrote:

if you want the same rights on a road as car drivers, pay some road tax.

Errr... Cyclists have more rights than car drivers - you have a right to cycle, walk or ride a horse on the road.

To drive a car you have to prove yourself competent (driving test), prove your car's safe (MoT) and take out insurance to cover the cost when you damage someone else.

And even after that lot, you can still be taken off the road if M'Lud sees fit.

skullthaw

any way all ok now no concussion and thankfully just brused sternum and coller bone so was very lucky i think

and for all the people posting abou going to fast there is a cycle lane at the side of the lane!! there and i was in it and the van cut right into this therefore his fault not mine

im certain it was malitious but oh well he might have just been fecking stupid :twisted:

i have every right and it is safer than goin on the p[avement to use these so called saftey route for cyclits

Dudu

skullthaw wrote:

i have every right and it is safer than goin on the p[avement to use these so called saftey route for cyclits

Quite right, if you mean what I think you mean.

The problem is that cycle lanes very often show where not to cycle, since they take you into the most dangerous places on the road - such as the inside of a lane of motor traffic.

Remember, they're not always there to help cyclists - they're there to get them pesky cyclists out of the way of Right-Thinking People.

Personally, I prefer to pass queuing motors on the outside - you can go faster and they expect to be passed on the right. Or else I just wait until a decent-sized gap opens up.

skullthaw

im still glad that i took the carbon forks off 2 days ago as the weather was bad so i dont have to buy new carbon forks

i know what you mean abou thoose lanes and a leason learnt tbh whit vans = steer clear!!

swampi101

Northwind wrote:

...But, I know the risks I'm taking, and dare I tempt fate, I'm good at it after years of practice. You develop the 6th sense thing, that bump of trouble that says "I'm not going in THERE" 2 seconds before someone hops lane. And needless to say, that 6th sense will often be going off when there are white vans around.

+1 to that. I do it all the time, and if I misjudge and crash, its my fault and I accept that.

As for the 6th sense thing, I know what youre on about as well, its like you know what that muppet 3 cars ahead is going to do before he does it, like that old man that didnt use his mirrors and reversed towards me out of a driveway :evil:

turnerjohn

doog442 wrote:

sheepsteeth wrote:

why not just wait your turn in traffic like everyone else? and as for undertaking other vehicles :roll:

i love riding my road bike but im not a roadi in the same way as i can lay bricks but im not a bricklayer. i fuckin hate road riders, they cut about like charlie big potatoes getting in the way. if you want the same rights on a road as car drivers, pay some road tax.

the most sensible post I have *ever* read on this forum

Sounds like someone can't keep up with them lol!

Seriously you do have a point, but sod it if you can cut through safely (and I do mean safely) then why not?....main reason why a bike is faster through town then anything else?!!

UKScooby

Got one the sack today !! Is that good enough.

Came flying round a sweeping but blind roundabout - past a junction I had luckily got out of just by the roundabout. Doing over fifty in a 30 zone - should be less at the roundabout. Gave me the finger when he saw me saying he was too fast. The van was marked up in the name of a national pharmaceutical company and he had just delivered to our chemist around the corner.

His boss said it was the best news he had all day - the driver had denied past allegations - but today would be different !!

And the other week I got the driver of a milk delivery lorry a warning after he jumped out of a junction in front of me, to avoid stopping - lurched to the wrong side of the road with tyres screeching - on a 20 tonner ! He was lucky.

bigflangesmallsprocket

In the cycle lane..that does put you technically in the right Skull from my point of view, but you've just learned the hard way, like many of us, that you can't take things for granted. For my own safety I assume that all other road users are morons and ride accordingly: big hand signals, lots of looking behind as well as well ahead when manouvering, etc. You might think it makes for a nervous ride but in reality you just become more attuned and alert to traffic flow and it becomes second nature without spoiling your ride. I do actually enjoy the challenge of riding in traffic and...usually... don't I don't let the fact that I have to do the thinking for car drivers spoil my fun

Headhuunter

Absolutely! Filtering through traffic is completely legal for cyclists and motorcyclists. What are we supposed to do? Wait at the back of the first traffic jam we come to even though there is clear space to move through?

I cycle to work in London, if I couldn't filter, I hit my first jam within 10 mins ofleaving home and I'd be sat in jams with all the nonce motorists for an hour + if I didn't filter. Filtering is what makes cycling faster. Having said that, obviously you need to do it carefully, but it sounds like in this situation the poor guy was simply filtering along a cycle when some idiot van driver cuts in.

Bhima

Headhuunter wrote:

Filtering is what makes cycling faster. Having said that, obviously you need to do it carefully,

+1

As a rule of thumb, I don't bother filtering if I know i'll make it through the lights in my current position, or if I know the lights are about to change, which can cause mayhem as drivers start to move and then see you shooting past them. :shock: The main problem with this is that most drivers dont indicate until the last minute so you can sometimes undertake them only to find yourself slamming the brakes on as they indicate and turn left at the very last second.

Most times, I just stay where I am (centre of the lane) behind the car in front but if there's a massive queue of cars, it does make sense to filter through (if safe). I tend to only filter through to a position where i'm guaranteed to get through the lights, instead of trying to get right to the front, for the reasons regarding mayhem described above. Depends on the situation though.

Sounds to me like the original poster was filtering while the traffic was still moving around and finding its place. Not good.

chrisonabike

The Highway Code states that you can pass on the left ('undertake'):
- in a one-way street
- a vehicle which is waiting to turn right
- or in a queue of slow-moving or stationery traffic.

The third one presumably applies here, so it's perfectly legal.

cjw

chrisonabike wrote:

The Highway Code states that you can pass on the left ('undertake'):
- in a one-way street
- a vehicle which is waiting to turn right
- or in a queue of slow-moving or stationery traffic.

The third one presumably applies here, so it's perfectly legal.

Actually it states;

"only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left "

The key bit here is "if the queue on your right" as it is intended for multilane situations - such as dual carriageways and motorways.

Cutting down the inside of the one queue is dangerous as cars, vans and lorries DO NOT expect anything to be beside them.

Headhuunter

cjw wrote:

chrisonabike wrote:

The Highway Code states that you can pass on the left ('undertake'):
- in a one-way street
- a vehicle which is waiting to turn right
- or in a queue of slow-moving or stationery traffic.

The third one presumably applies here, so it's perfectly legal.

Actually it states;

"only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left "

The key bit here is "if the queue on your right" as it is intended for multilane situations - such as dual carriageways and motorways.

Cutting down the inside of the one queue is dangerous as cars, vans and lorries DO NOT expect anything to be beside them.

Those rules are largely designed for other motorists not cyclists. Filtering is perfectly acceptable and motorists mowing down cyclists or motorcyclists would be in at fault. The onus is on them to check before cutting closer to the curb round other traffic etc. Having said that, this is not much consolation if you face plant the back of a white van which has cut you up.

biondino

cjw wrote:

Cutting down the inside of the one queue is dangerous as cars, vans and lorries DO NOT expect anything to be beside them.

This isn't true, though. Cyclists are very common, and drivers are FAR more likely to expect cyclists on their left than on their right, hence my assertion that it's a lot safer to filter down the left (that and the fact that if you do have an accident, you'll be flung pavement-wards rather than oncoming traffic-wards).

cjw

As I said. They do not expect you to be there and do not check. Yes they would (probably) be classed as at fault - not too sure that the case would find fault both ways. But as you state at the end, not much consolation to the cyclist now in a bloody heap in the kerb.

My moto is always assume road users are going to do something stupid (they rarely disappoint). This is true when I am cycling or driving a car and driving / cycling defensively means staying out of harms way and NOT trusting anyone else to look out for you.

cjw

biondino wrote:

cjw wrote:

Cutting down the inside of the one queue is dangerous as cars, vans and lorries DO NOT expect anything to be beside them.

This isn't true, though. Cyclists are very common, and drivers are FAR more likely to expect cyclists on their left than on their right, hence my assertion that it's a lot safer to filter down the left (that and the fact that if you do have an accident, you'll be flung pavement-wards rather than oncoming traffic-wards).

Car drivers are constantly checking their centre and right hand mirror for things either behind or overtaking them, they seldom look in the left. And car drivers often seem to NOT expect cyclists.

il_principe

cjw wrote:

biondino wrote:

cjw wrote:

Cutting down the inside of the one queue is dangerous as cars, vans and lorries DO NOT expect anything to be beside them.

This isn't true, though. Cyclists are very common, and drivers are FAR more likely to expect cyclists on their left than on their right, hence my assertion that it's a lot safer to filter down the left (that and the fact that if you do have an accident, you'll be flung pavement-wards rather than oncoming traffic-wards).

Car drivers are constantly checking their centre and right hand mirror for things either behind or overtaking them, they seldom look in the left. And car drivers often seem to NOT expect cyclists.

Most London drivers are used to bikes/motos etc filtering on the left. I rarely have problems doing this, you just have to be hyper aware in London - no bad thing anyway!

Headhuunter

cjw wrote:

biondino wrote:

cjw wrote:

Cutting down the inside of the one queue is dangerous as cars, vans and lorries DO NOT expect anything to be beside them.

This isn't true, though. Cyclists are very common, and drivers are FAR more likely to expect cyclists on their left than on their right, hence my assertion that it's a lot safer to filter down the left (that and the fact that if you do have an accident, you'll be flung pavement-wards rather than oncoming traffic-wards).

Car drivers are constantly checking their centre and right hand mirror for things either behind or overtaking them, they seldom look in the left. And car drivers often seem to NOT expect cyclists.

I think Biondino's right, as cycling becomes more popular, drivers are increasingly aware of them. I have noticed recently that if I am just behind a lorry or bus approaching a junction and the lorry or bus is turning left, 9 times out of 10 they notice me hanging back waiting for them to turn (rather than getting squished against the curb or ped railings). I can tell they've seen me because they falter and slow a little before turning as if expecting me to blast up the inside, which of course I would never do...

mudcovered

cjw wrote:

Car drivers are constantly checking their centre and right hand mirror for things either behind or overtaking them, they seldom look in the left. And car drivers often seem to NOT expect cyclists.

Have to agree with this. I stopped left side filtering when I learnt to drive. I began to realise how rarely drivers have to check their left side mirror. Since switching to the right I've found the number of scary filtering moments vastly reduced even if I occasionally have to stop filtering and pull in when traffic is coming the other way. I am willing to believe that London drivers may expect different things to those elsewhere in the country.

Mike

cjw

OK... maybe the difference is most of my cycling is rural and here, they haven't got a clue what a bike is - just something to overtake on the next blind bend (Merc and BMW drivers mainly!)

Headhuunter

mudcovered wrote:

cjw wrote:

Car drivers are constantly checking their centre and right hand mirror for things either behind or overtaking them, they seldom look in the left. And car drivers often seem to NOT expect cyclists.

Have to agree with this. I stopped left side filtering when I learnt to drive. I began to realise how rarely drivers have to check their left side mirror. Since switching to the right I've found the number of scary filtering moments vastly reduced even if I occasionally have to stop filtering and pull in when traffic is coming the other way. I am willing to believe that London drivers may expect different things to those elsewhere in the country.

Mike

However filtering up the right could be even more dangerous. I think if offered the choice I would prefer to face plant the back of a white van and land on the curb than end up in a head on collision with traffic coming the opposite direction at 30-40mph. Crash at combined speed of 50+mph anyone? I do filter up the right sometimes, when the left is blocked, but prefer the left if possible

dilemna

To the OP:

Glad you are ok but your injuries still look painful :oops: .

You've now been to the hospital or your doc regarding your injuries? If not your GP go see them ASAP. They will assess and record all your injuries. Also go for jabs - tetanus.

The driver failing to stop is a hit and run if you believe he, presuming it's a he, saw you and realised they had knocked you off or deliberately knocked you off.

Did you get the details of the witness? Did they get the van details? Who did he/she believe was at fault? If they were on your side then report it to PLOD immediately.

Perhaps you could take a pic of the scene and post? It might be better to do so just in case anything changes such as road markings.

Take lots of pics of your injuries as they heel. Try to take them with a ruler alongside to give an idea of size. Your doc will assess and measure them.

Is your bike damaged? Take pics and get it to a bike shop for an estimate of costs for repair.
Your helmet is damaged which you've shown which will need replacing.

When you can identify the vehicle then hopefully plod will contact the owner and obtain insurance details. Maybe he might be prosectued.

Contact a cycling solicitior when you can identify the vehicle and have sight of an insurance policy. If you do actually discover the driver's idenitity but no insurance you could sue the driver but problem will be a) identifying the driver if the perpetrator does not fess up and b) do they have any assets? Or the Motor Insurance fund for those injured by uninsured drivers.

Take it easy.

Aidy

Filter on the most appropiate side, be that left or right.

Absolute adherence to road rules is unsafe because it assumes that everyone else is perfect, you need to temper them with common sense.

Northwind

Lots of talk about car driver awareness in the last few posts... Keep it simple- if you're riding and dependant on any other road user actually seeing you, sooner or later you will be horribly killed. The best advice I ever had for filtering was "assume you've not been seen." Actually, that's not true, the best advice I ever had was "Assume every other road user wants to kill you" but that gets tiring.

cjw

Thank you for sense....

Exactly as I said earlier.

My moto is always assume road users are going to do something stupid (they rarely disappoint). This is true when I am cycling or driving a car and driving / cycling defensively means staying out of harms way and NOT trusting anyone else to look out for you.

Flasheart

+1 cjw I have the same attitude on the road. Treat em all like an idiot , when they do something stupid , you're ready for them.

Make something idiot-proof ..they build a better idiot :roll: