Shouting at RLJers Part 2
Comments
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DonDaddyD wrote:Why oh why, in every discussion I'm in must it come to an example involving race. :roll:
Because it's the prejudice I've most observed first-hand.
There are many examples of prejudice in my life and in others that far outwiegh any racial abuse I've experienced.
Dudu, your example isn't about prejudice its about racism. I still would argue that the prejudice/racism was in and of itself far worse than the root of said prejudice/racism.
Errr... Isn't racism a prejudice based on race? Or rather, difference. I just happen to have seen more prejudice based on race than on any other difference.
A prejudice attitude towards cyclists is far more dangerous than any RLJers could ever hope to be. An RLJer, doesn't justify and isn't always (or even often) the cause for a guy to pass me an inch from ymy bars going 35mph. The motorist may use it as an excuse but it wasn't the cause it was his prejudice.
...a prejudice reinforced by seeing idiots riding through red lights, often at risk to themselves and others and thereby jumping the queue. People don't like cheats of any sort, and jumping red lights is blatant cheating.___________________________________________
People need to be told what to do so badly they'll listen to anyone0 -
Il Principe wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:On a sperate note:
Do you know what T.H.U.G L.I.F.E across Tupac's belly means? It's an acronym, beautiful to those who've taken the time to look past the surface.
I'm not really into religion so I'll leave this point well alone.
LOL!!! I mean really LMAO!!!!
It means: "The Hate You Give Little Infants F*cks Everyone = Thug Life.
I thought it poignant given your middle class/hoody and knife example.
Why on Earth would you think Tupac was religous?
Anyway too the topic.
I don't entirely agree with RLJing (though have been a culprit on previous occasions
I don't agree with the prejudice applied to cyclists and feel that that prejudice is more detrimental to cycling and the safety of cyclists than any RLJing, pavement riding ninja could ever be. I do accept that those afforementioned actions can be part of the root of the prejudice but not the prejudice itself.
Other than that I'm done.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Disagree with the shouting "instructions" at people.....90% of the populace will tell you to "sod off" and the others will simply think "who the frig ar you to tell me what I can and cannot do" - no matter how right and legally correct your views are.
Kinda pointless really.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:Il Principe wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:On a sperate note:
Do you know what T.H.U.G L.I.F.E across Tupac's belly means? It's an acronym, beautiful to those who've taken the time to look past the surface.
I'm not really into religion so I'll leave this point well alone.
LOL!!! I mean really LMAO!!!!
It means: "The Hate You Give Little Infants F*cks Everyone = Thug Life.
I thought it poignant given your middle class/hoody and knife example.
Why on Earth would you think Tupac was religous?
Apparently I'm getting Cam'ron and TUPAC mixed up - thought it stood for "The Highest Under God". I'm not really a fan of either artist though tbh.DonDaddyD wrote:
Anyway too the topic.
I don't entirely agree with RLJing (though have been a culprit on previous occasions
I don't agree with the prejudice applied to cyclists and feel that that prejudice is more detrimental to cycling and the safety of cyclists than any RLJing, pavement riding ninja could ever be. I do accept that those afforementioned actions can be part of the root of the prejudice but not the prejudice itself.
Other than that I'm done.
Surely anything that serves to reinforce prejudice is a bad thing though? I guess my point is that I'd rather take the so called "moral high ground", obey the rules of the road and respect other road users.
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People seem to be more inclined to apply sweeping generalisations/brush-tarring to groups they're not part of or are otherwise already inclined to dislike. People don't tend to do it for drivers because driving is normalised and drivers are a group that pretty much everyone belongs to.
Cycling isn't normalised for the vast majority of people so they are more likely to apply these generalisations than they are for other groups they may be part of- football fans for example.
As others have said it would be nice to think people behaved a bit more rationally than this but you have to acknowledge that in reality they don't. I think it's very likely that the behaviour of RLJers or otherwise bad cyclists does tar us all with the same brush. That said, if every cyclist was prefectly well-behaved I suspect drivers would still be looking for sticks to beat us with- the whole out-group thing again.
But that doesn't excuse RLJing!0 -
WTF happened to this thread????????0
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DonDaddyD wrote:It means: "The Hate You Give Little Infants F*cks Everyone = Thug Life.
T H Y G L I F E, surely.0 -
Tripe hands u gumption?0
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I'm quiet happy if i see RLJ afterall a higher proportion of these twits make up the casualty figures for cyclist.Which means cycling is safer than the figures would sugest at first glance.The fact that they ignore red lights just shows they are prepared to take more chances with big heavy objects driven by like minded twits.So yes i take my hat off to RLJ&give them a cheery wave.They're taking it on the chin for the rest of us
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I know I said "That is all." I lied. The thread has moved on a lot since then.
@DDD:
Dudu has already said this, but I feel I should add. Racism is a product of prejudice. If you have lived under a racist regime, perhaps you might understand how ill-formed prejudices can shape public opinion.
On "Shouting":
Many seem not to get the point. To clarify, I do not shout at every RLJer, for the record I have shouted at two.
I won't defend or try to argue the case for my vocal protestations (I haven't really thought it through myself!). I am generally not a shouter but I do feel strongly for standing up and being counted for what I believe in.David
Engineered Bicycles0 -
Roastie wrote:I know I said "That is all." I lied. The thread has moved on a lot since then.
@DDD:
Dudu has already said this, but I feel I should add. Racism is a product of prejudice. If you have lived under a racist regime, perhaps you might understand how ill-formed prejudices can shape public opinion.
On "Shouting":
Many seem not to get the point. To clarify, I do not shout at every RLJer, for the record I have shouted at two.
I won't defend or try to argue the case for my vocal protestations (I haven't really thought it through myself!). I am generally not a shouter but I do feel strongly for standing up and being counted for what I believe in.
I'm fully aware racism being a product of prejudice in the same way prejudice is a product of generalisations.
I think its safe to say I know how ill-formed prejudices can shape public opinion.
I understand that it exists.
Just because some RLJ doesn't mean that we all do, doesn't mean that its right for people to think that way either. It doesn't mean I should tollerate that way of thinking. "Your all as bad as each other" isn't a justifiable conclusion.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
No-one said it was right to generalise or act on prejudice. But it is the way that groups tend to think of groups dissimilar to themselves, right and wrong is irrelevant. It is just the way things are.DonDaddyD wrote:Just because some RLJ doesn't mean that we all do, doesn't mean that its right for people to think that way either. It doesn't mean I should tollerate that way of thinking. "Your all as bad as each other" isn't a justifiable conclusion.
Oh cr@p, I promised I'd stop on this topic.David
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Roastie wrote:
No-one said it was right to generalise or act on prejudice. But it is the way that groups tend to think of groups dissimilar to themselves, right and wrong is irrelevant. It is just the way things are.DonDaddyD wrote:Just because some RLJ doesn't mean that we all do, doesn't mean that its right for people to think that way either. It doesn't mean I should tollerate that way of thinking. "Your all as bad as each other" isn't a justifiable conclusion.
Oh cr@p, I promised I'd stop on this topic.
It's the last bit I have a problem with but to fully express my issues with it, I would either have to do so in person and I don't know any of you well enough, or I would have to have several more pages of discussion pulling history and philosphical examples of how human thinking has proven to go beyond accepting the way things are.
So on that note, I'm going to stop here.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Completely OT...
I think we actually agree in a sense. But social programming (and reprogramming) is a whole different issue. Trying to change human nature could be a very dangerous undertaking indeed.DonDaddyD wrote:It's the last bit I have a problem with but to fully express my issues with it, I would either have to do so in person and I don't know any of you well enough, or I would have to have several more pages of discussion pulling history and philosphical examples of how human thinking has proven to go beyond accepting the way things are.
So on that note, I'm going to stop here.
I do believe that the way society thinks can change, but human nature changing? This discussion, though far more interesting, needs beer.David
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Gazzaputt wrote:WTF happened to this thread????????
DDD, you have two things that get in the way of an easy discussion.
1) you only see things from a theoretical perspective. and 2), you only see things in black and white. To illustrate:DonDaddyD wrote:
Wow, lets let the generalisations fly... :roll:dondare wrote:One reason why all cyclists are seen to be law-breakers is that so many are.
It's not a generalisation! It's the truth. A relative truth. Many, many cyclists break the law! Not all of them, but not a small minority either. To those predisposed to prejudice, many = all.
How you can debate the absolute truth of this intentionally relative statement is beyond me, but it's led to two more pages of argument where you're getting ever more abstract while everyone else is trying to ground the argument in real life - the central point of which is that people are often prejudiced, and trying to reduce this prejudice is a good thing.
The race example - brought up by someone who has a specific, pertinent, first-hand example - is just part of the desire to demonstrate that for all your ideals - all of which are admirable - a different approach needs to be taken for messy real life.0 -
So do we all agree that Dr Alice Roberts is hot and RLJers are twats then?
I got bored and disinterested when someone suggested some lame (as a two legged horse on roller skates and pogo stick combo) excuse for not being arsed to put their foot down.
ALSO - if you are new to the game don't pull up on the inside of big trucks at junctions.
or run with knives.
or rewire your plug whilst it's still in the fecking wall.Fixed gear for wet weather / hairy roadie for posing in the sun.
What would Thora Hurd do?0 -
I don't think Dr Alice Roberts is that hot. Thatis a point I simply won't concede.David
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DonDaddyD wrote:OK so what you guys are saying is that prejudice is OK. Forming an opinion on an individual based on an unproven generalistion is alright and acceptable.
And thenDonDaddyD wrote:Firstly, the middle class people so quickly to write of a generation as thugs (mostly because they cannot indentify with youth culture) are themselves fools and are not aiding society through their dismissal.
I think that everybody has their own prejudices, if you think you don't then you probably haven't realised what yours is yet.
I can tell that I have prejudices, it becomes obvious each time I am pleasantly surprised by the actions of others.
I think it's the way our brains are wired; they say that we are in some way designed to recognise patterns, maybe we are looking for them where they don't necessarily exist.'12 CAAD 8 Tiagra0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:
No, he's so wrong, in so many ways.
I, of course, am perfection in every way. :shock:
Kevin McCloud is my dream man. Swoon...0 -
Coriander wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:
No, he's so wrong, in so many ways.
I, of course, am perfection in every way. :shock:
Kevin McCloud is my dream man. Swoon...
Yeah, that photo doesn't do him any good, and his nose is rather oddly-shaped, but while James Cracknell still isn't returning my letters, he'll do.0 -
not sure that any of you ladies would be this chaps type....no refelction on you....but i reckon any of the boys on here would have a better chance......Whenever I see an adult on a bicycle, I believe in the future of the human race.
H.G. Wells.0 -
I have prejudices, I try my best not to have prejudices against or towards groups of people. Having an outlook/belief system in which I was prejudice towards others I would find, personally, limiting.
To clarify:
RLJing is wrong.
Thinking that all cyclists are bad is wrong.
I do not believe RLJing as an action gives 'us' all a bad name. Neither do I believe that RLJing influences the attitudes some motorists have towards us moreso than the pre-determined prejudice that they already have. The prejudice that some motorist have towards cyclists can be born out of any number of reasons.
I accept that RLJing can add to the aforementioned prejudice some motorists have towards cyclists. I do not believe it is the sole cause of said prejudice.
Dr Alice Roberts is not fit.
Dr Christian Jessen is not attractive (if I was a bird, gay or Biondino :? me saying this would carry more weight).
You can all disagree with me. I disagree with you.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
The prejudice! :Pcee wrote:not sure that any of you ladies would be this chaps type....no refelction on you....but i reckon any of the boys on here would have a better chance......David
Engineered Bicycles0 -
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- 2022 Canyon Aeroad CFR
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Il Principe wrote:
Well, I've only ever seen him on that hilarious 'teenagers are idiots' show where he tells them they've all got horrid self-inflicted diseases... and he doesn't seem that smug!0 -
dondare wrote:I am sure that the way cyclists are regarded and treated by motorists is directly related to the way that motorists see cyclists behaving.
Cycling is more dangerous and less pleasant than it should be because of lack of respect cyclists get from motorists, and it's an earned lack of respect. If every law-abiding cyclist gave every prat-onna-bike the hair dried treatment then perhaps we'd all benefit from it.
Having said that, I tend to just ignore them.
I've said before and I'll say again. I don't feel the need to vindicate my presence on the roads to motorists or earn their grudging respect. As far as I'm concerned I could easily say "bloody motorists, they all speed" or "bloody motorists, they all cut up cyclists" or "bloody motorists, they all park illegally" etc.
The truth is that motor vehicles are responsible for thousand of deaths and injuries per year. They need to earn my respect not the other way round. To not RLJ simply because yuo're worried what motorists will think of cyclists if stoopid. F*ck motorists.Do not write below this line. Office use only.0
