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Shouting at RLJers Part 2

RoastieRoastie Posts: 1,968
edited August 2009 in Commuting chat
As I mentioned on the first version of this thread (which was largely messed up by people arguing the RLJ issue rather than staying OT), I sometimes get really annoyed by various incidences of numpty behaviour and can't help but shout at them.

This morning it was a twit who was clearly planning to jump the red at a temporary roadworks light. Don't know where it came from, but I bellowed an almighty "STOP!" (sounded quite authorative if I may say so myself). The twit makes an emergency stop, stopped at the light I point out that it is red. He mutters something, then hops onto the (moderately busy) pavement), weaving between peds. So I shouted again, "Get off the pavement!" He just rides on, scattering peds in his wake.

Once again, all around seemed to appreciate one cyclist having a go at another for antisocial behaviour.
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  • iainmentiainment Posts: 992
    And this proves what exactly?

    That you can shout at people, er that's it.
    Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
    Joseph Gallivan
  • Wallace1492Wallace1492 Posts: 3,707
    Why bother, you are unlikely to change his behavior.
    Some do, a lot don't.
    It can be safer in some circumstances, not at other times.

    This argument goes round and round and frankly now bores me.

    Each to their own. I tend not to, but there are 2 junctions on my commute that are safer for RLJing and I will do it there when safe.
    "Encyclopaedia is a fetish for very small bicycles"
  • pangolinpangolin Posts: 5,248
    I did that not long ago, couldn't help it. Similar reaction from the RLJer too.

    I felt better though :)
    Genesis Croix de Fer
    Cube Attain
  • Kieran_BurnsKieran_Burns Posts: 9,757
    Oddly enough there is only one junction on my commute when you get the numpties jumping and last week was a classic 'censored -on-a-bike' He just wandered vaguely through, earphones on, swerving left and right and managed (somehow) to get between two cars.

    I mouthed (well okay: stated clearly) "What a complete c*ck!" Only to get the nod from a taxi driver, a WVM, a bus driver and pedestrians :D Best of all: the really cute lass who I sometimes see commuting was behind me and we got chatting again.

    I wonder if I should thank the c*ck for being one :wink:
    Chunky Cyclists need your love too! :-)
    2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
    2011 Trek Madone 4.5
    2012 Felt F65X
    Proud CX Pervert and quiet roadie. 12 mile commuter
  • always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
    Oddly enough, I tend to take the view that if anyone is in the middle of doing something stupid (which, for the present purposes includes RLJing) telling them that second probably isn't a good idea, because they really don't need the distraction.

    However, sometimes the temptation is strong.

    On the other hand, if they are ABOUT to do something stupid and clearly haven't fully appreciated that traffic is about to descend on them from 8 directions, its probably a good idea. I've certainly done this with pedestrians (when I'm a pedestrian as well) at a particular spot near work which has a well-disguised filter that a lot of people fail to spot when crossing on red.

    I'd certainly encourage someone not to filter inside an HGV if I saw them about to attempt it.
  • iainmentiainment Posts: 992
    Oddly enough, I tend to take the view that if anyone is in the middle of doing something stupid (which, for the present purposes includes RLJing) telling them that second probably isn't a good idea, because they really don't need the distraction.

    However, sometimes the temptation is strong.

    On the other hand, if they are ABOUT to do something stupid and clearly haven't fully appreciated that traffic is about to descend on them from 8 directions, its probably a good idea. I've certainly done this with pedestrians (when I'm a pedestrian as well) at a particular spot near work which has a well-disguised filter that a lot of people fail to spot when crossing on red.

    I'd certainly encourage someone not to filter inside an HGV if I saw them about to attempt it.

    You're right and on reflection this is what the op was doing but the way it was put was a bit look at me, look at me.

    Still disagree re the awfulness of rlj though - there are circumstances in which it is ok.
    Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
    Joseph Gallivan
  • MonkeypumpMonkeypump Posts: 1,528
    iainment wrote:
    You're right and on reflection this is what the op was doing but the way it was put was a bit look at me, look at me.

    Still disagree re the awfulness of rlj though - there are circumstances in which it is ok.

    +1 on both counts
  • RoastieRoastie Posts: 1,968
    pangolin wrote:
    I felt better though :)
    Yep! Exactly it.

    I know I probably won't change anyone's views, but it certainly beat riding around with a great deal of annoyance.
  • iainmentiainment Posts: 992
    Roastie wrote:
    pangolin wrote:
    I felt better though :)
    Yep! Exactly it.

    I know I probably won't change anyone's views, but it certainly beat riding around with a great deal of annoyance.

    Just transferred it to someone else though.
    Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
    Joseph Gallivan
  • RoastieRoastie Posts: 1,968
    iainment wrote:
    Just transferred it to someone else though.
    Who is Mr Grumpy?

    Sure I did. Just as it was originally transferred to me ;).
  • iainmentiainment Posts: 992
    Roastie wrote:
    iainment wrote:
    Just transferred it to someone else though.
    Who is Mr Grumpy?

    Sure I did. Just as it was originally transferred to me ;).

    Ping pong.
    Your serve sir.
    Old hippies don't die, they just lie low until the laughter stops and their time comes round again.
    Joseph Gallivan
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    iainment wrote:
    Roastie wrote:
    pangolin wrote:
    I felt better though :)
    Yep! Exactly it.

    I know I probably won't change anyone's views, but it certainly beat riding around with a great deal of annoyance.

    Just transferred it to someone else though.

    Are we discussing Swine Flu?

    Seriously though, I don't shout at people, unless their actions affect me directly. I've got a mindset of leave people to be people, keep out of other people's business.

    I wouldn't shout, but fair enough to anyone who does.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • RoastieRoastie Posts: 1,968
    iainment wrote:
    Ping pong.
    Your serve sir.
    Ace! ;)
  • teagarteagar Posts: 2,100
    Roastie wrote:
    As I mentioned on the first version of this thread (which was largely messed up by people arguing the RLJ issue rather than staying OT), I sometimes get really annoyed by various incidences of numpty behaviour and can't help but shout at them.

    This morning it was a twit who was clearly planning to jump the red at a temporary roadworks light. Don't know where it came from, but I bellowed an almighty "STOP!" (sounded quite authorative if I may say so myself). The twit makes an emergency stop, stopped at the light I point out that it is red. He mutters something, then hops onto the (moderately busy) pavement), weaving between peds. So I shouted again, "Get off the pavement!" He just rides on, scattering peds in his wake.

    Once again, all around seemed to appreciate one cyclist having a go at another for antisocial behaviour.

    Sounds to me like you're asking for a fight. Shout at the wrong person and you'd certainly regret it. Most wouldn't, (I wouldn't!), but some people certainly would.


    Shouting at people eventually lands you into a hairy situation where one cyclist inevitably will square up to you.


    It's none of your business what anyone does on his bike, and if you think it does, for whatever pathetic reasons like "(s)he gives cyclists a bad name", then perhaps you should stop and think what your life has come to that you feel the need to shout at people for what they do on the road totally on their own, without endangering you.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • Greg TGreg T Posts: 3,266
    teagar wrote:
    what they do on the road totally on their own, without endangering you.


    It does endanger me. Pissed off car drivers etc etc etc, Safety rubbish, lazy, yes, not victimless etc etc etc

    Act like traffic and get treated like traffic.

    Etc etc etc.
    Fixed gear for wet weather / hairy roadie for posing in the sun.

    What would Thora Hurd do?
  • DuduDudu Posts: 4,637
    iainment wrote:
    And this proves what exactly?

    That you can shout at people, er that's it.

    "Once again, all around seemed to appreciate one cyclist having a go at another for antisocial behaviour."

    Sounds like bloody good PR for law-abiding cyclists to me.

    RLJers are [email protected]
    ___________________________________________
    People need to be told what to do so badly they'll listen to anyone
  • DuduDudu Posts: 4,637
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    iainment wrote:
    Roastie wrote:
    pangolin wrote:
    I felt better though :)
    Yep! Exactly it.

    I know I probably won't change anyone's views, but it certainly beat riding around with a great deal of annoyance.

    Just transferred it to someone else though.

    Seriously though, I don't shout at people, unless their actions affect me directly.

    In this case, the behaviour may well affect you directly because motorists and peds seeing RLJers' behaviour will think all cyclists are tits and may well attempt to deliberately or carelessly injure you even though you're law-abiding.
    ___________________________________________
    People need to be told what to do so badly they'll listen to anyone
  • RoastieRoastie Posts: 1,968
    Yeah teagar. Much better to just meekly sit by and watch.

    As for the rest, Greg has put it far more succinctly than I ever would have.

    As for this thread, I regret starting it; despite intentions (whatever they were, I forget) it inevitably descends into the usual pointless argument. I am simply tired of people (and being associated with people) who willfully break the law, and cause an annoyance to a significant section society, just because they can or because they think they know better.

    That is all.
  • DuduDudu Posts: 4,637
    Roastie wrote:
    I am simply tired of people (and being associated with people) who willfully break the law, and cause an annoyance to a significant section society, just because they can or because they think they know better..

    +1
    ___________________________________________
    People need to be told what to do so badly they'll listen to anyone
  • MonkeyMonsterMonkeyMonster Posts: 4,628
    well said Roastie
    Le Cannon [98 Cannondale M400] [FCN: 8]
    The Mad Monkey [2013 Hoy 003] [FCN: 4]
  • bluesacsbluesacs Posts: 95
    Roastie why don't you shout W*NK*R very loudly, everybody will look round and think you're shouting about yourself. Get a life.

    It's getting very boring all these sanctimonious bikers masturbating over RLJers everyday.

    That's it, last time on this board, i don't need this tedious w*nk.
  • lost_in_thoughtlost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    edited August 2009
    bluesacs wrote:
    Roastie why don't you shout W*NK*R very loudly, everybody will look round and think you're shouting about yourself. Get a life.

    It's getting very boring all these sanctimonious bikers masturbating over RLJers everyday.

    That's it, last time on this board, i don't need this tedious w*nk.

    And with that sort of posting, I don't doubt you'll be sorely missed. :roll:

    Roastie, I support the sentiment. I wouldn't do the shouting myself, but I do often comment to myself or those nearby that the RLJ-er is a bit of a pillock. Seems to work!

    I think, also, that by being the one person stopped while a sea of hybrids RLJ around me I'm making some kind of statement...
  • MrChuckMrChuck Posts: 1,663
    bluesacs wrote:

    That's it, last time on this board

    Hope so.
  • il_principeil_principe Posts: 9,152
    MrChuck wrote:
    bluesacs wrote:

    That's it, last time on this board

    *waves
    2015 Canyon Aeroad CF SLX
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  • dondaredondare Posts: 2,113
    I am sure that the way cyclists are regarded and treated by motorists is directly related to the way that motorists see cyclists behaving.
    Cycling is more dangerous and less pleasant than it should be because of lack of respect cyclists get from motorists, and it's an earned lack of respect. If every law-abiding cyclist gave every prat-onna-bike the hair dried treatment then perhaps we'd all benefit from it.
    Having said that, I tend to just ignore them.
    This post contains traces of nuts.
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Dudu wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:

    Seriously though, I don't shout at people, unless their actions affect me directly.

    In this case, the behaviour may well affect you directly because motorists and peds seeing RLJers' behaviour will think all cyclists are tits and may well attempt to deliberately or carelessly injure you even though you're law-abiding.

    That's a stunted outlook to be honest.

    It's like saying because I got mugged by one type of person, all people like that mugger are all the same. Or because I got run over by one speeding motorist then all motorist are the same and speed.

    People who generalise and apply prejudice before the offending action is even taken are by and large idiots themselves and part of the problem.

    Personally I think expecting everyone to behave the same and a belife that one person 'doing something wrong gives us all a bad name' is shortsighted. Should drink drivers give all motorists a bad name, especially those who drink and drive within the legal limits and have never had an accident?

    Personally I don't think that because a person RLJs it should be or is assumed that all cyclists RLJ. I don't really see the purpose of shouting at people who choose to break a law, it's ultimately their choice and their decisions shouldn't apply or attach itself to me.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • dondaredondare Posts: 2,113
    One reason why all cyclists are seen to be law-breakers is that so many are. We don't think that all motorists are drunk because drink-driving is rare these days, but we know that they all speed, overtake too closely for comfort and are on the mobile phone as often as not.
    Prejudice against cyclists does exist and it can be felt in many ways, from the dangers we experience on the road to the assumptions that people make about the way accidents occur.
    This post contains traces of nuts.
  • Paulie WPaulie W Posts: 1,492
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Dudu wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:

    Seriously though, I don't shout at people, unless their actions affect me directly.

    In this case, the behaviour may well affect you directly because motorists and peds seeing RLJers' behaviour will think all cyclists are tits and may well attempt to deliberately or carelessly injure you even though you're law-abiding.

    That's a stunted outlook to be honest.

    It's like saying because I got mugged by one type of person, all people like that mugger are all the same. Or because I got run over by one speeding motorist then all motorist are the same and speed.

    People who generalise and apply prejudice before the offending action is even taken are by and large idiots themselves and part of the problem.

    Personally I think expecting everyone to behave the same and a belife that one person 'doing something wrong gives us all a bad name' is shortsighted. Should drink drivers give all motorists a bad name, especially those who drink and drive within the legal limits and have never had an accident?

    Personally I don't think that because a person RLJs it should be or is assumed that all cyclists RLJ. I don't really see the purpose of shouting at people who choose to break a law, it's ultimately their choice and their decisions shouldn't apply or attach itself to me.

    It generally isnt worth shouting I agree but I strongly diasgree with the view that a cyclist's actions dont have an impact on how other road users view cyclists.

    Many cyclists have expectations of how white vans, mini-cabs, BMW drivers, etc are going to behave based on experience not of all such drivers but of a very tiny percentage and potentially (probably sub-consciously as much as anything) alter their behave when 'interacting' with these sub-categories of road user.

    I think cyclists as a group are seen in much the same way as these sub-groups (rather than as a larger group like 'car drivers') and are subsequently not as easily differentiated in other road users' minds.

    I really do believe that a car driver who encounters and is angered by a RLJ cyclist is quick to tar all cyclists with the same brush and perhaps subsequently plays out this anger, not necessarily by running cyclists off the road but with a diminished lack of respect
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    edited August 2009
    dondare wrote:
    One reason why all cyclists are seen to be law-breakers is that so many are.
    Wow, lets let the generalisations fly... :roll:
    We don't think that all motorists are drunk because drink-driving is rare these days, but we know that they all speed, overtake too closely for comfort and are on the mobile phone as often as not.

    No we don't. I don't assume that at all.

    I don't speed and I never answer my mobile when driving so clearly not all motorists do these things. As for passing too closely for comfort, define closely and comfort in measurable terms.
    Prejudice against cyclists does exist and it can be felt in many ways, from the dangers we experience on the road to the assumptions that people make about the way accidents occur.

    Yes prejudice does still (unfortunately) exist. Have you ever taken the time to consider that what you've posted is in and of itself prejudice. Have you ever considered that the prejudice itself is a large part of the problem.

    Moreover, if a person RLJ's that doesn't excuse or justify the motorist to then endanger the cyclists (any cyclists) life.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • clantonclanton Posts: 1,288
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Dudu wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:

    Seriously though, I don't shout at people, unless their actions affect me directly.

    In this case, the behaviour may well affect you directly because motorists and peds seeing RLJers' behaviour will think all cyclists are tits and may well attempt to deliberately or carelessly injure you even though you're law-abiding.

    That's a stunted outlook to be honest.

    It's like saying because I got mugged by one type of person, all people like that mugger are all the same. Or because I got run over by one speeding motorist then all motorist are the same and speed.

    People who generalise and apply prejudice before the offending action is even taken are by and large idiots themselves and part of the problem.

    Personally I think expecting everyone to behave the same and a belife that one person 'doing something wrong gives us all a bad name' is shortsighted. Should drink drivers give all motorists a bad name, especially those who drink and drive within the legal limits and have never had an accident?

    Personally I don't think that because a person RLJs it should be or is assumed that all cyclists RLJ. I don't really see the purpose of shouting at people who choose to break a law, it's ultimately their choice and their decisions shouldn't apply or attach itself to me.

    It may not be fair that all cyclists get tarred by the same brush but it is exaclty what is going on. Every motorist who posts about annoying cyclists cites exactly the same things - RLJing and riding on pavements. Both are illegal and both are behaviours that incite apoplexy in a large number of motorists and create lesser, negative emotions in an even larger number. So their behaviour affects the way others view and treat me.

    I don't shout at them, don't think it would make a difference and I'm not a confrontational type of person. But I think their behaviour needs to be changed - by education, by others setting a good example and by prosecution if necessary.
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