Woodcote Sportive this Sunday

unscarred

I'm signed up for this:

http://www.southernsportive.com/?go=sunday&page=routes&eventid=270

There's a choice of routes. I've never done any long rides like this, so I was planning on doing the mid route - 58 miles - which was pretty intimidating. :shock:

Then on Saturday I did 47 miles, and it wasn't bad at all - I was tired by the end with sore arms, shoulders and neck, but not exhausted.

So now I'm thinking, should I go for the full course of 82 miles? I'm doing it for charity, so it's supposed to be a challenge - I don't want it to be easy, but at the same time I don't want to kill myself :?

Come on guys, persuade me!

softlad

no need to persuade you - your mind is already made up. Do the long route and pace it....

unscarred

Guilty!

And I'm not sure pacing it is in my vocab, gonna go for the SIlver classification.

Thanks Softlad

softlad

my theory has always been that if you can ride 10, you can ride 20. If you can ride 20, you can ride 50. If you can ride 50, you can ride 80 - and so on....

But if you haven't been over 50 before, then I would definitely pace yourself. Worst thing you can do is go off at someone else's pace - thinking you are doing great - and then blow up halfway round.....been there, done that..

ugo.santalucia

I did the all sportive last year... it said it had 1200 mt of climbing which I thought it wasn't much, but in the end I think it had a lot more, like 1700-1800, I reckon... nothing huge, but constant up and down in small lanes. Bear that in mind, if you're not used to hilly rides

FlamingTberto

I took a look at this one, and thought better of it given the way they sell the hills. Sure, I can do it if I really wanted but I guess I don't want it so much right now. I fancy the Petersfield one in Sep instead.

unscarred- You sound like you really want to do the longer route so just go for it. Munch on Haribo along the way for E number and suger rush and you will be fine. Suggest start gently and save plenty of energy for the last 25% of the distance. I always find the last few miles tough whatever the distance. I guess it is about pacing yoeurself as otehrs have said.

softlad

FlamingTberto wrote:

I took a look at this one, and thought better of it given the way they sell the hills.

I used to train round there - there aren't any hills worthy of the name...

FlamingTberto

softlad wrote:

FlamingTberto wrote:

I took a look at this one, and thought better of it given the way they sell the hills.

I used to train round there - there aren't any hills worthy of the name...

Pah, I've been psyched out by the marketing spiel! :oops:

I'm gonna do it next year then. I'm out of town this year unfortunately at the outlaws in Sheffield. Plenty of hills there for me to avoid.

ugo.santalucia

softlad wrote:

FlamingTberto wrote:

I took a look at this one, and thought better of it given the way they sell the hills.

I used to train round there - there aren't any hills worthy of the name...

True, but it's all up and down... some lanes are quite steep... is the Woodcote the one that goes up to Luxters Winery or is it the Princes Risborough Sportive? Can't remember... anyway, that lane is 1 Km at 11% average with max gradient 18%... it's not that flat... there are quite a few of these hidden gems round there

softlad

ugo.santalucia wrote:

True, but it's all up and down... some lanes are quite steep...

agreed - the undulation will get you in the end. To be honest, I haven't read the description, but so long as they are not billing it as some kind of 'alpine torture' then that's ok...

unscarred

Thanks guys, that's the decision made so strongly that I'll feel bad to back out now - exactly what I wanted really!

I promise I'll go at my own pace - 15 to 16 mph should be a sustainable average. I'll also make sure I'm loaded with water, sports drink and sweeties. Any other tips on surviving five and a half hours in the saddle?

softlad

unscarred wrote:

Any other tips on surviving five and a half hours in the saddle?

just 'discipline' really - if this is your first time at that distance then avoid the temptation to push hard - especially on flat bits, where you might feel like winding it up a bit - and especially early on.

It could make the difference between you crawling over the finish line on your hands & knees - or riding over it with a little bit in reserve. The difference in those feelings is immense, obviously...

ugo.santalucia

Last year I got gold in that one, but just, I think I averaged 27 Kph, which is 16.6 mph... but I was pushing and it certainly wasn't my first sportive.

I think you should aim for no more than 15 mph... as I said, don't be fooled by their claim of 1300 mt of climbing... it's more than that, a guy with altimeter last year told me he had measured 1700, which is one and a haf times the Alpe d'Huez, just to give you an idea...

SouthernSportive

ugo.santalucia wrote:

as I said, don't be fooled by their claim of 1300 mt of climbing... it's more than that, a guy with altimeter last year told me he had measured 1700, which is one and a haf times the Alpe d'Huez, just to give you an idea...

Cumulative climb is a difficult one to get exactly right. Different devices will give you completely different results. We take our figures for the site from Memory Map, which is used to plot the routes, and this seems to tally closely enough with readings we get from our GPS, but by no means exactly. An incorrectly calibrated altimeter can give a pretty inaccurate figure, and I do think that 1700 sounds way over the top. As others have said, it's really the relentless nature of the climbs rather than their particular size that makes Chilterns courses challenging. It's the sort of ride that I'd describe as 'muscular' rather than 'huge' meaning that it's capable of giving you a tougher time than you might think, if you're not ready for it.

Having said that unscarred, the advice has been good here; pace yourself, and try to save something for the end of the ride. Make sure you take on fuel too, both before and during the event. Make use of the checkpoints, don't be tempted to just ride by them to try and save time. A well judged break and refuel at the stops can refresh you enough to help you get your best results and save you from blowing up later on. Above all, enjoy the day, look to the scenery to inspire you if it's getting hard, support other riders and they'll support you. Same goes for the checkpoint crews. They work their socks off to support the ride, so give them a cheerful hello when you see them and they'll be spurring you on and doing their best to keep your spirits up.

Good luck, and we'll see you on Sunday!

ugo.santalucia

SouthernSportive wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

as I said, don't be fooled by their claim of 1300 mt of climbing... it's more than that, a guy with altimeter last year told me he had measured 1700, which is one and a haf times the Alpe d'Huez, just to give you an idea...

Cumulative climb is a difficult one to get exactly right. Different devices will give you completely different results. We take our figures for the site from Memory Map, which is used to plot the routes, and this seems to tally closely enough with readings we get from our GPS, but by no means exactly. An incorrectly calibrated altimeter can give a pretty inaccurate figure, and I do think that 1700 sounds way over the top. As others have said, it's really the relentless nature of the climbs rather than their particular size that makes Chilterns courses challenging. It's the sort of ride that I'd describe as 'muscular' rather than 'huge' meaning that it's capable of giving you a tougher time than you might think, if you're not ready for it.

Having said that unscarred, the advice has been good here; pace yourself, and try to save something for the end of the ride. Make sure you take on fuel too, both before and during the event. Make use of the checkpoints, don't be tempted to just ride by them to try and save time. A well judged break and refuel at the stops can refresh you enough to help you get your best results and save you from blowing up later on. Above all, enjoy the day, look to the scenery to inspire you if it's getting hard, support other riders and they'll support you. Same goes for the checkpoint crews. They work their socks off to support the ride, so give them a cheerful hello when you see them and they'll be spurring you on and doing their best to keep your spirits up.

Good luck, and we'll see you on Sunday!

I agree, but I find altimeters, even the cheapest ones, much more reliable than the web... sites like mapmyride are simply ridiculous in their altimetry.

I have a cheap PRO computer with altimeter now and it's bang on, I've tried it in the alps and the error is in the region of 5%... I assume expensive Garmin computers are even more accurate, websites make error of 50% or even more... essentially they calculate altimetry by measuring a limited number of points, which in an ondulated ride like your are never enough to get the number right.

SouthernSportive

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I agree, but I find altimeters, even the cheapest ones, much more reliable than the web... sites like mapmyride are simply ridiculous in their altimetry.

I have a cheap PRO computer with altimeter now and it's bang on, I've tried it in the alps and the error is in the region of 5%... I assume expensive Garmin computers are even more accurate, websites make error of 50% or even more... essentially they calculate altimetry by measuring a limited number of points, which in an ondulated ride like your are never enough to get the number right.

Fair comment, but I think desktop packages like Memory Map & Tracklogs are more comprehensive than most of the web services. They're plotting full profiles using proper OS datasets. I reckon it's something to review over the winter though; I want to be presenting the best data on the site that I can.

ugo.santalucia

SouthernSportive wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I agree, but I find altimeters, even the cheapest ones, much more reliable than the web... sites like mapmyride are simply ridiculous in their altimetry.

I have a cheap PRO computer with altimeter now and it's bang on, I've tried it in the alps and the error is in the region of 5%... I assume expensive Garmin computers are even more accurate, websites make error of 50% or even more... essentially they calculate altimetry by measuring a limited number of points, which in an ondulated ride like your are never enough to get the number right.

Fair comment, but I think desktop packages like Memory Map & Tracklogs are more comprehensive than most of the web services. They're plotting full profiles using proper OS datasets. I reckon it's something to review over the winter though; I want to be presenting the best data on the site that I can.

I am sure they're more accurate but they still rely on calclulating using a number of data points. If you have a 150 Km ride and you plot 1500 altitude points, one every 100 metres, you might get a reasonably accurate estimate, but still not the real one, as some 100 metres stretches can include a dip or a road bridge for example, which would be plotted as zero altitude difference. That said, I would be surprised if the system was as accurate as to plot 1 datapoint every 100 metres.

The best way is to ride the course with two different altimeters (or three) and get the average... in my view this is the best possible estimate.

On a course with big long climbs the differences will be negligible, but your sportives are all up and down with very short ascents/descents and differences can be significant

nicky_7751

Signed up for this last night....bottled on the full route though doing the mid route

unscarred

nicky_7751 wrote:

Signed up for this last night....bottled on the full route though doing the mid route

Cool, guess I'll probably see you there, along with a million others! Good luck 8)

JasonRwmb

I have just signed up for it too.

I was going to do the 4.5hr mtb navigator that Trailbreak are running at the same time, but thought I would give one of their Sportive's a go for a change.

Looking forward to it, and the weather looks great. 8)

graham1871

JasonRwmb wrote:

I have just signed up for it too.

I was going to do the 4.5hr mtb navigator that Trailbreak are running at the same time, but thought I would give one of their Sportive's a go for a change.

Looking forward to it, and the weather looks great. 8)

Says its sold out now, looks like nearly double last years numbers.
Weather looks good - but some gusty winds according to the met office....

proto

I rode the event last year and thought it good, and my daughter and I were intending to enter on the day, so now mighty miffed it's full.

Would it be considered bad form to turn up and ride the route 'unofficially', so to speak, untimed and without abusing the feed stations?

ugo.santalucia

proto wrote:

I rode the event last year and thought it good, and my daughter and I were intending to enter on the day, so now mighty miffed it's full.

Would it be considered bad form to turn up and ride the route 'unofficially', so to speak, untimed and without abusing the feed stations?

No, it'll be fine, as long as not too many people do it and get in the way of road safety.

But there are always lots of riders who sign up and then don't show up... on a sunny day a 75% turnout is average

Jaeger

proto wrote:

Would it be considered bad form to turn up and ride the route 'unofficially', so to speak, untimed and without abusing the feed stations?

There has been a thread on this before with mixed opinion.

Nothing to stop people riding parts of the route on a normal Sunday run out, as some of the more scenic parts will naturally be favourites with local cyclists, but to intentionally start from the same start point and ride the same route is not on, in my opinion.

I heard today there were a lot of people doing just that, with some even using the feed stations! Will be interesting to see if TrailBreak say anything about that.

If you want to ride it, either book earlier or ride the route another day.

On a more positive note, great route today and great weather. Made for a tough but enjoyable day! My Garmin clocked the total ascent as 1515m, compared with 1338m on the website.

Anyone else measure height gain on this one?

RedGreenBaron

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I am sure they're more accurate but they still rely on calclulating using a number of data points. If you have a 150 Km ride and you plot 1500 altitude points, one every 100 metres, you might get a reasonably accurate estimate, but still not the real one, as some 100 metres stretches can include a dip or a road bridge for example, which would be plotted as zero altitude difference. That said, I would be surprised if the system was as accurate as to plot 1 datapoint every 100 metres.

The best way is to ride the course with two different altimeters (or three) and get the average... in my view this is the best possible estimate.

On a course with big long climbs the differences will be negligible, but your sportives are all up and down with very short ascents/descents and differences can be significant

Thanks Ugo for making these points so well - worth considering for all sportive organisers. One interesting outcome is that UK sportives (lumpy, bridgy etc) tend to look easier than continental ones (with long even climbs), where the web calculators are bound to be more accurate. And that's without considering road surface, closed roads etc.....

airwise

Who cares? Just ride .

Enjoyable day out. Nice route - not too hilly. Fun was had.

Thanks to the organisers.

tyskie

This was my first sportive and really enjoyed it. Couldn't keep up with Rich, Mykee et al and lost them at about 17 miles. Found another group after a while going about my speed and stayed with them until a 35mph downhill blow-out. The new Leyzne pump worked well but must get myself a CO2 thingy. I found the course quite hilly as I'm only used to doing a couple of steep hills in one ride whereas there must of been about 5 of them in this ride. The pain in my legs even after a couple of beers are reminding me of this. Some of the downhills were a bit fraught due to the gravel and holes but I've been working on my bunny-hops which came in useful. Did the last 20 miles pretty much on my own which I found very tough.

Bring on the next one!

JasonRwmb

I really enjoyed it today. I ended up riding in a reasonably paced group for the first 60 miles or so, which made the time fly by. It seemed to be a fairly unrelenting course it was either uphill or downhill, I really can't remember too many sections that I would describe as being flat. I think my finishing time was about 4:40 for the long route.

The total climbing (as downloaded from my Garmin onto various bits of software):

Garmin = 1,514m
Tracklogs = 1,755m
Anquet = 1,959m

I totally agree with Jaeger about doing these events without entering. If everyone did it, the events just wouldn't happen - however there is nothing Trailbreak can do to stop people following the arrows when they are on public roads.

unscarred

Oh my god, I totally underestimated this.

I finished the long route, eventually, but it was painful. I just wasn't prepared for how brutal some of the hills were, or how difficult riding for this length of time would be.

On the other hand, I did finish, and I'm up and about and not in pain today, so it wasn't that bad!

More practice over the next year, and I know I'll improve a lot.

phearnde

Found it quite a challenge - I measured my time as 4h15m for the mid route, 59.6 miles, 3200 ft of total ascent - don't feel too bad today, but I know that I did it!

Wasn't overly impressed with the finish line organisation, didn't get the promised tea, snack, etc, and no medal!!

I think I have high standards as my first sportive (ever) was the Highclere Castle, that has Mavic service vehicle and roving motorcycle support on the course.

Anyhow, overall I enjoyed (or was it endured) the Woodcote...

nicky_7751

Only 3rd ever sportive having only started serious cycling this year @ age 57 really unfit as smoked until Jan 08...started with Highclere then Wantage now Woodcote, bronze time for first 2 achieved aim by getting silver for this one 3hrs 44. Was well inside gold time until after the hill @ 40 mile point....really took it out of me :evil: got to do another one this year to try to get to gold standard