Which Hybrid for £1kish? (any help greatly received)

roger_merriman

amnezia wrote:

russmcp wrote:

A road bike is a great design for racing - it's *slightly* faster than a fast hybrid, at the cost of a lot of toughness, comfort, braking and turning ability.

:roll:

you're having a laugh.

Your aware that people win TT with hybrids yes? adding drop bars doesn't make the bike fast, air cheating postion, is the main thing and you can do that drops or flats.

the_hundredth_idiot

I'm also a convert to road bikes.

But, I do agree with AndyManc who said that, for a 6 mile commute, the comfort of the extra hand positions aren't that vital. So, if you would prefer a flat bar, go for it! *

Evans also do some nice flat barred bikes from Charge which are worth a look. I was seriously considering the Charge Tap before I got sucked into roadie-land.

If you are thinking about commuting all year round, think about mounts for proper mudguards - consensus seems to be that they're not cool, but they don't half help at keeping the crud off your bike and your arse. Proper mudguards, that is, not the clip-on MTB style ones.

And a rack is helpful if you're going to be carrying much luggage with you. I try and travel light but my firm keeps threatening to make me take my laptop home every night for disaster management purposes - I might convert to a pannier if that happens.

* and we look forward to hearing from you in a year's time asking about road bikes!

biondino

I have terrible trouble turning my road bike. It's like an 18-wheeler - honestly, I need to do a 5- or 6-point turn just to face the other direction. You'd think when they make bikes for racing at high speed where fast, accurate cornering and nimbleness is of massive importance they could have thought about that.

Also, if you study the TdF footage carefully, you'll notice Cancellara's astonishing descent was done on a Ridgeback Storm.

roger_merriman

biondino wrote:

I have terrible trouble turning my road bike. It's like an 18-wheeler - honestly, I need to do a 5- or 6-point turn just to face the other direction. You'd think when they make bikes for racing at high speed where fast, accurate cornering and nimbleness is of massive importance they could have thought about that.

Also, if you study the TdF footage carefully, you'll notice Cancellara's astonishing descent was done on a Ridgeback Storm.

at very slow speeds he has a point, though a minor one, and we are talking about walking or lower speeds.

once past that road bikes are very easy to steer, and in no way feel sluggish or unweildy etc.

meanwhile

¡Bye Ya! wrote:

You'll find some flat bar bikes - like the Scott you linked to - have the same frame and componentry as drop bar equivalents. I think those Scott Speedster's are a predominantly drop bar range - or are perhaps available with a choice of flats or drops.

If you buy a bike like this, with a frame, fork, and componentry equal to a drop bar at the same price point, you can always swap out the flats for drops at a later date.

You can do this with virtually any components - including a 26'' MTB build - with minimal problems. You might need to switch a front derailer to be compatible with brifters -if you want to install £150 thief magnets on a commuter. Trivial increase in cost and trouble.

If you do buy a roadie derived hybrid, watch out for tyre clearance. You really want room to run 38mm tyres with racks on a versatile bike, and most won't let you.

That's the advantage of choosing a genuine flat bar road bike rather than a true hybrid (such as the Cannondale BadBoy that's been mentioned).

No, it isn't.

The Cotic that was mentioned could be built up with discs and the same frame/fork in either flats or drops (or again, flats and then drops). Nice bikes - set-up this way they'd do the job of a cross-type model (and look great).

So drops/flatbar - I wouldn't say it's an entirely and mutually exclusive proposition. As I say, bets can be hedged by choosing a genuine flat bar road bike that will cost less to modify down the track then springing for a whole new bike.

Once again: that last bit is nonsense.

It's also worth noting that the UK and US are much more drop bar oriented than Europe where bicycles are ridden more. Our tourers are drop bars, continentals tend to use "trekking bars" - a sort of complex flat bar. They ride bikes more than we do and making fashion and group belonging are less important.

Alternative to Roadrat: Surly Crosscheck.

il_principe

Meanwhile is largely talking out of his/her bottom I'm afraid. Casting aspersions on the experience of forumers he/she has never met is fairly unconstructive. There is a real mix of posters on here, from the newbie commuter, to the weekend rider, to the sportiver and even a few Cat 2,3,4 racers, so there are plenty of people who know exactly what they are talking about and are pretty experienced - they can also give impartial advice as they're not trying to sell you whatever bike they currentlt want to ger rid of.

As for the fitting guff meanwhile has spouted:

And another point about drop handles - bike fit is harder to achieve and matters more. It's worth having a proper paid for fitting session. At the least you should make sure that bars on the bike you buy match your shoulder width. Stores virtually never do this, although it's easy to change bars. If it doesn't get done you can be very uncomfortable indeed.

- well, any shop worth their salt will conduct a proper fitting service when you purchase, if they don't offer this, or don't really appear to know what they are doing, then go elsewhere. You're spending a lot of money, you need to buy the right bike and some shops are fer far better staffed than others.

Best thing you can do is test ride a range of options, from hybrid, to flat bar to drops. When I was in the same position as you some years back, I went for a hybrid as drops scared me and I had no idea about bikes in general. My commute at the time was just 4 miles in London. When the bike was nicked (from a "secure" facility at work) I upgraded to a drop bar roadbike and have never looked back. I wouldn't buy a hybrid now if you paid me too, but I can see why those new(ish) to cyclng are drawn to them. Ultimately buy whatever you like the best having had a test ride.

julesbristol

Thanks again folks - such a lot to consider. I think the best bet is trying as many as I can!

thegibdog

You're right Julie, see which suits you best. There are a lot of people on here that have a problem with anything that doesn't have drops but don't let that put you off. Choose whichever bike is best for you and your circumstances.

meanwhile

roger merriman wrote:

biondino wrote:

I have terrible trouble turning my road bike. It's like an 18-wheeler - honestly, I need to do a 5- or 6-point turn just to face the other direction. You'd think when they make bikes for racing at high speed where fast, accurate cornering and nimbleness is of massive importance they could have thought about that.

Also, if you study the TdF footage carefully, you'll notice Cancellara's astonishing descent was done on a Ridgeback Storm.

at very slow speeds he has a point, though a minor one, and we are talking about walking or lower speeds.

once past that road bikes are very easy to steer, and in no way feel sluggish or unweildy etc.

"Feel" and reality are two different things. The fundamental limit on a bike's cornering and braking capability is the size of the contact patch of the tyre - ie tyre width. Road racing bikes are restricted to very narrow tyres that make sense in the context of a race ; the marginal aero advantage can result in saving perhaps a minute in every hour, and that can be a huge difference in placings. However in the context of a commute, it's irrelevant. 98% of the speed with MUCH better cornering, MUCH better braking, MUCH better protection for the rims, a MUCH *MUCH* better chance of staying on the bike if you hit a pot hole - it's a no brainer to anyone but the brainless. (I.e. exactly the sort of people who will drop £2K on a racer they don't understand or know how to ride properly.)

At the moment wide fast road tyres are easier to find in 26 (the Rubino Pro is the best afaik - fast, still grippy in the wet, decent puncture resistance) so the 26 has the advantage for a commuter. Plus for the same size contact patch a 26's patch will be more nearly circular, which means it will roll faster. (Interestingly there won't be an aero advantage, as you might intuitively expect from the reduction in frontal surface area, but it probably isn't worth getting that technical here - it's irrelevant to the OP and fashion victim crowd will already be confused.)

As for the importance of low speed agility, ie at around walking pace - it can be critical in a tricky situation at a junction. And it's situations like these that count for a damn large % of the most serious accidents that happen to non-idiot cyclists.

However, the advantage of the 26 isn't limited to low speeds - it makes it possible to have a shorter wheelbase on a bike without the tyre colliding with your foot in an extreme turn. Now, most of the "Buy a bike like mine!" crowd can't manage an extreme turn at speed (partly the narrow tyres, but mostly a lack of skill) so this isn't a factor. However learning the trick is actually quite easy and could save your life - there's no need to accept a low standard just because it is prevalent. (Otoh, if you have small feet you may not have a problem anyway.)

davmaggs

My observations having been commuting around London for a few years, and having bought a couple of bikes or watched others do it:

- You should try the bikes out. Don't fixate on one model as your body geometry (like width of shoulders) might mean that you are simply unsuited to a particular model, and no matter how much you want it then it'll be a bad buy.
- Try and work out what you want the machine for. If you are going to carry a laptop or clothes to work then perhaps one with thicker tyres or scope for a pannier would be the best.
- Full mudguards can't be beaten for making a commute pleasant.

I normally dislike it when people question your question on the forum, but hopefully this is helpful.

- Before blowing loads of cash on a new lifestyle and on a certain type of bike why not try it out for a while. I've seen numerous people resign their bike to the shed after a month or two as they just don't get into it and it's a lot of cash to waste. If you borrow such a retired machine then you can try it out without spending a lot, plus you get to learn about your useage and that helps with the roadie vs hybrid debate. Also your experience goes up, and a bike you might have rejected in the shop is now suitable (e.g road bike not so scary after a few months)

Final observations: In London I rarely see people using the drop bars as the traffic hinders this so don't be afraid to go flat (Sirrus is a fast hybrid). Secondly disc brakes cost more, weigh more and set you up for servicing bills. I've always been able to stop on standard brakes, and the roadie blokes don't have dramas

meanwhile

biondino wrote:
I have terrible trouble turning my road bike. It's like an 18-wheeler - honestly, I need to do a 5- or 6-point turn just to face the other direction. You'd think when they make bikes for racing at high speed where fast, accurate cornering and nimbleness is of massive importance they could have thought about that.

Also, if you study the TdF footage carefully, you'll notice Cancellara's astonishing descent was done on a Ridgeback Storm.

Well, yes - beside being an object lesson in how not to be funny, this post very much illustrates the ignorance of the typical fashion victim cyclist....

Road bikes are great at the type of turning that is relevant to road bikes - the twitchy, accurate stuff that you need for fighting for position. This comes from their steep angles. However the ability to make a tight turn depends on GRIP (doh) which is a function of.. tyre size. Engineering is about making intelligent trade-offs, and the wider tyres that would let racers corner faster would lose the TDF because of the added air resistance. Marketing, otoh, is about finding people too stupid or lazy to understand the stuff they're buying, so you can charge them extra for it. And a wonderful thing is that really stupid people who spend a lot of money on stuff will then try to get others to do the same so that they feel vindicated!

Giving up most of things that make a good commuter bike to get slight increases in speed constitutes good engineering in a racing bike - commuting and racing *are* fairly different activities.

(Classic racing bikes also have some geometry problems with sustained drastic turns - you can work out what they are if you compare one with a dedicated crit bike...)

prawny

meanwhile wrote:

biondino wrote:
I have terrible trouble turning my road bike. It's like an 18-wheeler - honestly, I need to do a 5- or 6-point turn just to face the other direction. You'd think when they make bikes for racing at high speed where fast, accurate cornering and nimbleness is of massive importance they could have thought about that.

Also, if you study the TdF footage carefully, you'll notice Cancellara's astonishing descent was done on a Ridgeback Storm.

Well, yes - beside being an object lesson in how not to be funny, this post very much illustrates the ignorance of the typical fashion victim cyclist....

Road bikes are great at the type of turning that is relevant to road bikes - the twitchy, accurate stuff that you need for fighting for position. This comes from their steep angles. However the ability to make a tight turn depends on GRIP (doh) which is a function of.. tyre size

Gosh yes because you don't need to manouver for position whilst commuting do you :roll:

I've never experienced lack of grip on my road bike wet or dry, but have on my mtb with slicks - funny that. I'd suggest that crap tyres are less grippy than thin ones.

God whats with the agressive ranty arseholes on the forum this week?

amnezia

meanwhile wrote:

biondino wrote:
I have terrible trouble turning my road bike. It's like an 18-wheeler - honestly, I need to do a 5- or 6-point turn just to face the other direction. You'd think when they make bikes for racing at high speed where fast, accurate cornering and nimbleness is of massive importance they could have thought about that.

Also, if you study the TdF footage carefully, you'll notice Cancellara's astonishing descent was done on a Ridgeback Storm.

Marketing, otoh, is about finding people too stupid or lazy to understand the stuff they're buying, so you can charge them extra for it. And a wonderful thing is that really stupid people who spend a lot of money on stuff will then try to get others to do the same so that they feel vindicated!

Its true, people waste their money on hybrids because they are marketed as the 'ideal commuter' when really they'd be better off with a road bike.

il_principe

meanwhile wrote:

biondino wrote:
I have terrible trouble turning my road bike. It's like an 18-wheeler - honestly, I need to do a 5- or 6-point turn just to face the other direction. You'd think when they make bikes for racing at high speed where fast, accurate cornering and nimbleness is of massive importance they could have thought about that.

Also, if you study the TdF footage carefully, you'll notice Cancellara's astonishing descent was done on a Ridgeback Storm.

Well, yes - beside being an object lesson in how not to be funny, this post very much illustrates the ignorance of the typical fashion victim cyclist....

"meanwhile" earlier today...

lardboy

MrChuck

amnezia wrote:

meanwhile wrote:

biondino wrote:
I have terrible trouble turning my road bike. It's like an 18-wheeler - honestly, I need to do a 5- or 6-point turn just to face the other direction. You'd think when they make bikes for racing at high speed where fast, accurate cornering and nimbleness is of massive importance they could have thought about that.

Also, if you study the TdF footage carefully, you'll notice Cancellara's astonishing descent was done on a Ridgeback Storm.

Marketing, otoh, is about finding people too stupid or lazy to understand the stuff they're buying, so you can charge them extra for it. And a wonderful thing is that really stupid people who spend a lot of money on stuff will then try to get others to do the same so that they feel vindicated!

Its true, people waste their money on hybrids because they are marketed as the 'ideal commuter' when really they'd be better off with a road bike.

Don't you think that's a bit of a sweeping generalisation? I'd say that for an awful lot of people a hybrid is indeed the ideal commuter, and for those people a 'proper' road bike would be a waste of money.

DonDaddyD

1)Try the bikes out.

Don't shirk at a hybrid, flat bar road bike, road bike proper or a CX bike - try them all. (Believe it or not Hybrids hurt my back - so comfort is a combination of bike+individual). My most aggressive riding postion bike is easily the most comfortable compared to a Hybrid, another road bike and a large steel single speed.

2 Set aside £100 - £200 on accessories

You'll need kit: clothes, helemt, locks, lights, innertubes, pump/CO2 etc and possbily a bag. Adjust accordingly to any combination of "must haves" you need to complete your journey safely.

3) Anything said here is a guideline at best.

Advice given is all subjective and specific to the individuals own personal experience. Many have claimed 'most people' ride this or that. They can't substantiate it or support the claim as its personal experience not proper research.

Half the fun is trial and error. Just make sure you try a load of bikes, get fitted and buy the one that's right for you at the time. If you love cycling on the road whether commuting or social we'll read a post from you in a years time asking "What road bike?"

4) Don't spend £1000 on a bike with Sora, any bike (unless the frame costs £800-£900).

This is a Truism.

il_principe

DonDaddyD wrote:

4) Don't spend £1000 on a bike with Sora, any bike (unless the frame costs £800-£900).

Unless said bike is a Pinarello - although it's an affront to all that is right and proper to sell a Shimano equipped Pinarello. :shock:

prawny

Il Principe wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

4) Don't spend £1000 on a bike with Sora, any bike (unless the frame costs £800-£900).

Unless said bike is a Pinarello - although it's an affront to all that is right and proper to sell a Shimano equipped Pinarello. :shock:

I was looking at the the FPs for my next bike, there is no way I could ride a pinarello with sora I'd feel like a right twonk! Why couldn't they just dig out some old mirage or xenon bits like ribble and decathlon do!

DonDaddyD

Il Principe wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

4) Don't spend £1000 on a bike with Sora, any bike (unless the frame costs £800-£900).

Unless said bike is a Pinarello - although it's an affront to all that is right and proper to sell a Shimano equipped Pinarello. :shock:

Personally I think Sora is Shimano's attempt at copying Campag's shifting action, they pretty much got it spot on. Press a button and then a massive metal against metal clunk...

biondino

meanwhile wrote:

biondino wrote:
I have terrible trouble turning my road bike. It's like an 18-wheeler - honestly, I need to do a 5- or 6-point turn just to face the other direction. You'd think when they make bikes for racing at high speed where fast, accurate cornering and nimbleness is of massive importance they could have thought about that.

Also, if you study the TdF footage carefully, you'll notice Cancellara's astonishing descent was done on a Ridgeback Storm.

Well, yes - beside being an object lesson in how not to be funny, this post very much illustrates the ignorance of the typical fashion victim cyclist....

You can disagree with my points as much as you like but don't you dare have a go at my sense of humour. I'm hilarious! Though not as funny as Jash's youtube link

biondino

On a more serious note, next time we meet up in the park, can we have a test run where a hybrid, an MTB and a roadie all test their stopping distance, and their turning circle if that's not too tricky? For all I know meanwhile, clearly insane though he is, might be right.

il_principe

biondino wrote:

On a more serious note, next time we meet up in the park, can we have a test run where a hybrid, an MTB and a roadie all test their stopping distance, and their turning circle if that's not too tricky? For all I know meanwhile, clearly insane though he is, might be right.

Perhaps Meanwhile could join us - I'm dying to have an expert show me how to ride my bike properly, I paid all that money for it but simply have no idea how the damn thing works. Also can someone show me where reverse is, 20 forward gears and no reverse, bloody road bikes, I bet hybrids come with a reverse gear.

Squaggles

It really is down to personal preference , there is no wrong or right bike for commuting . The road surface on my commute is shockingly bad and I use an old MTB with road tyres , works very well for me . If my commute was longer and on better roads I'd use my roadbike .

hugh1982

Calm down Meanwhile eh? The OP asked a question and people have responded with their opinions on the subject. Not sure that it's your place to decide whose opinions are more or less valid than anyone else's. That's for the OP to decide.

For what it's worth, I used to ride hybrids but a few months ago bought a roadie instead. I've always enjoyed cycling but can honestly say that the roadie has taken it to a new level. The commute in to work is a hell of a lot more fun.

Guess it's because road bikes are better!

biondino

Hybrids = a utilitarian compromise for short journeys
Roadies = FUN

Sums it up pretty well I think.

rally200

I'm relieved to discover that I don't have some sort of bi-polar disorder after all, its my choice of bike that's doing it.

On the days I take the hybird into work I'm wise and skillfull,

on the road bike days I'm an irrational, unco-ordinated fashion victim (but it is worth it, my Viviene Westwood bib-shorts are simply to die for, darlings)

Sea_Green_Incorruptible

biondino wrote:

Hybrids = a utilitarian compromise for short journeys
Roadies = FUN

Sums it up pretty well I think.

I think the fun point's an important one. If your going to sustain a cycle commute in all weathers, all year round I think there probably needs to be more to it than just getting from A to B.

Now I recognise you can have fun on all kind of bikes, but there is a special buzz you get from riding a road bike on the road I think and that's the main reason people like to ride them on their commute. They just feel so fast and eager.

Incidently, my four current bikes have drops, flats, risers and courier bars! Horses for courses and all that. In my book, couriers are the best for a half hour commute, but as has already been pointed out can be tricky to fit up with gears. Flats can feel very nippy in traffic, particularly with a short stem. They might even be my first choice if I only did a couple of miles in heavy traffic. I have found they can get uncomfortable over time and any reasonable distance though. Drops are the best all rounders in my experience and are certainly nothing to be afraid of.

EDIT: Oh yes and I still think discs on drop bar roadies are a great idea for day in day out modulation/stopping in the wet reasons. Amazed there aren't more bikes available fitted with them. Koolstop Salmons the next best thing but expect to go through them like they're made of soap.

Stuey01

This looks good:
Quick, room for guards, good equipment, disc brakes, decent value. Cycling plus loved it.

http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Ridgeback-Flight-05-2009-Road-Bike_22400.htm

MrChuck

Stuey01 wrote:

This looks good:
Quick, room for guards, good equipment, disc brakes, decent value. Cycling plus loved it.

http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Ridgeback-Flight-05-2009-Road-Bike_22400.htm

No, no, no- you haven't read the script have you? Flat bars == rubbish.
Now if you put some drops on and called it a CX bike or something it would be fine (even though, as somebody else said, you rarely see anyone actually in the drops in urban areas).