Snowdons Summit to Marin Trail. How?
Rochester_Marin
Posts: 10
Hi, I am going on a long weekend to Snowdonia in a few weeks for 2-3 days riding camping with a few keen mtb friends...
I am trying to find a route that can get us from the Marin trail to Snowdon, then up to the summit and back to the Marin trail without retracing our stepsl?
I have found routes to snowdons summit but they all approach from the north-west, whereas we'll be coming from the north-east...
Ideally we'd like to avoid roads at all costs, be as remote as possible and keeping it to singletrack. We are all reasonably fit so something that pushes us would be good too.
Any ideas, maps, links or opinions will be greatly recieved.
Many Thanks
Lee
I am trying to find a route that can get us from the Marin trail to Snowdon, then up to the summit and back to the Marin trail without retracing our stepsl?
I have found routes to snowdons summit but they all approach from the north-west, whereas we'll be coming from the north-east...
Ideally we'd like to avoid roads at all costs, be as remote as possible and keeping it to singletrack. We are all reasonably fit so something that pushes us would be good too.
Any ideas, maps, links or opinions will be greatly recieved.
Many Thanks
Lee
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Comments
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Are you planning to do this in a day or over your entire stay?Getting up Snowdon is tough in itself.Also between May and Sept there's a voluntary bike ban at peak times.Between 10am and 5 pm bikes are asked to keep off the bridleways.
http://www.cyclingnorthwales.co.uk/page ... volunt.htm.
Its probably possible to do what you plan put it'll be a real toughie.Its a good few hours push up to the summit,plus covering the ground between the marin and Snowdon off road is no mean feat :shock:0 -
ibbo, thanks for that, I was totally unaware of the bike ban... that alone puts a stop to our plan really.... with that in mind it might be best to head for the summit of a near by mountain that might be less busy. I've noticed a group of mountains to the south-east of snowdon called The Ridge (i think) there's a bridle way that runs along the top... has anyone on here done it?
Having never been to this corner of wales before its difficult to get a full picture of the ground between the Marin trail and Snowdon. I got myself an OS map last night and there do seem to be a couple of possible routes that could be used, and the ground seems to be open but with gradual inclines, but without local knowledge its tricky knowing which route would be the most enjoyable. By the looks of it I think allowing for about 20miles off road each way between Marin and Snowdon (or its next closest summit) would be sensible.
To answer your question we would be doing this ride from Friday early morning to Sunday afternoon... so although the ride will be tough we will have quite a bit of time in which to complete it so we can take a steady pace and enjoy the scenery.0 -
Linking the Marin to Snowdon via Mountain passes/bridleways/footpaths would be difficult in the extreme. I doubt very much whether it could be done especially carrying tents. Your best bet would be to use the A4086.
Why not have a night in Llanberis and a night in Capel Curig.
Have a look here http://www.flattyresmtbroutes.com/CapelCurig.html
The above route is the Llyn Cowlyd Killer loop , it can easily be modified to incorporate parts of or all of the Marin Trail.
You could start in Trefrew going anti clockwise, past Llyn Cowlyd, down to Capel Curig and back up until you reach Llyn Grafnant at which point you would want to take a right (just after the lake) and join the Marin at the end of the Dragons Tail.(Allow 10 - 12 hours)
Alternatively start in Capel Curig and head up the bridleway towards LLyn Grafnant (The drop into Llyn Crafnant is worth it alone) once again do a right at the end of the lake and join the fireroad that takes you over towards the Marin. Loop round the Marin until your back at the Dragons Tail then retrace your steps back over to Capel Curig. Simples, just make sure you give yourselves plenty of time ! ( 8 hours +)
If you click on my Sig and then onto photo sets there are a few photos of the Cowlyd loop on there.
You say you are not familiar with the area and I suspect you are already underestimating the terrain.
Have you got a copy of memory map?0 -
I rode up snowdon a few years back and it's an epic ride, just for the fact that it's a "proper" mountain and all, so i would definately recommend doing it, even if you have to do it in isolation, rather than as part of a larger loop.
We rode up the llanberis route, which is pretty ridable all the way up if you're a decent fit rider - it took us well under 2 hours to do. The ride down is awesome. The bike ban does mean that when you go it's quiet, so you can get a clean run up and down- we left about 5am, which gave loads of time including a stop at the top. You could always head to the Marin trail in the afternoon having had a good rest/fry-up somewhere afterwards
To get to Llanberis, we followed the bridleway from the Snowdon Ranger hostel, which is also a good ride.
Hope that's useful0 -
Some good advice has already been given. As well as the trip up and down Snowdon and the Cowlyd loop recommended by Dirty Dog I suggest that you have a look here......
https://shop.bike-fax.com/catalog/index ... 7416f9f0cd
All of these routes are in the general area and it may possible to link some of them together with the above mentioned rides. The routes should give you an idea of which of the area's bridleways are rideable. The 'Tour of Snowdon' is 72km.
You could also incorporate the Penmachno trail which is about 5 miles South East of the Marin trail.
Be careful you don't bite off more than you can chew though
Stu0 -
Rochester_Marin wrote:Having never been to this corner of wales before its difficult to get a full picture of the ground between the Marin trail and Snowdon.
I walk in Snowdonia twice a year.
Stunning part of the country.
As has been said, you may have underestimated the terrain between Marin and Snowdon. Probably not impossible if you're super fit, but to cover the ground between the two you'd almost certainly have to take in some road work.
They not little "Humps and Bumps" they proper mountains.
Here's a pic I took from the summit a couple of years back.
The big "Lump" in the centre is Moel Siabod, Betws-y-Coed, and hence the Marin trail are hidden behind.
The tracks you see are both the PYG track (Unrideable) and the lower Miners track, which you could ride down, but you'd HAVE to carry the bikes down to Llyn Glaslyn first.
These lead bak to Pen-y-Pass on the Llanberis pass.
The only "Real" options for riding are (as said) the Llanberis Path, and the Snowdon Ranger.
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Thanks for all the advice everyone, going to take some time to have a look into each of your suggestions but ill more than likely end up with a route that uses a bit of road (nasty word) to bypass the extremely hard parts.
Like I said we are reasonably experienced and fit riders... so definatly wont be mistaking mountains for lumps haha, but thanks for the heads up.
I'll post back once I've come up with a route. (and scan in an os map) so please keep an eye on this thread to give any local knowledge on it once its up.
Cheers
Lee0 -
Right I've studied the OS maps and come up with the route below.
I'd appreciate your opinions on the route...
Some addtional info...
I plan to park the car in Capel Curig friday 12noon and ride to the base of mount snowdon (near Llyn Llydew) in the afternoon. (camping overnight at a nearby campsite)
Saturday we will ascend Mt Snowdon at about 7am. Come back down along the same route and back to Capel Curig in the afternoon. (camp over night near Capel Curig)
Sunday start the ride over to the Marin Trail about 7am, complete the Marin trail and back to the car around mid afternoon
Link: http://www.mypicx.com/08122009/Snowdonia/
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Hello again,
Had a quick scan at your route. I am not an expert on the snowdonia area but I think I can see a few problems with your route.......
More or less the only routes used on Snowdon by bikers are the Llanberis and Ranger Path bridleways and unless you are very familiar with the area I would stick with these.
The path that you have chosen to take up Snowdon might look ok on the map but it could be totally unrideable and /or dangerous :shock:
It appears that the top 1.5km of the path is a public footpath so you are not allowed to ride on it in any case!
It looks like there is a section near the top that is a scramble (i.e you will have to use your hands and feet to get up it) so getting a bike up might be a little tricky!
Don't underestimate Snowdon, it claims several lives every year
If you are going to do Snowdon on a Saturday I recommend that you start your ascent at sunrise or at 17:00. Otherwise your descent will be spoiled due to having to slow down to avoid walkers - it gets very busy up there! Note that the Llanberis path is technical, the Ranger Path is expert!
I am not familiar with your route from Capel Curig to the Marin trail but if it is not mentioned here
https://shop.bike-fax.com/catalog/index ... 7416f9f0cd
or here
http://www.flattyresmtbroutes.com/WalesRoutes.html
and no one on the forum can vouch for it, I think you are taking a big gamble!
Stu0 -
Also if your in the northern area's there are way better trails than the Maarin trail which is a trail i found so boring i have never gone back to ride it again
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Sorry, but there's NO WAY your going to be able to cycle that route.
You can barely stand up on the summit of Y Lliwedd.
The start of your route takes you along the Miners Path up to Llyn Llydaw, this is very do-able, but the pull up to Lliwedd from the lake is VERY steep. The summit is very steep drops one side and vertical cliffs the other and very rocky terrain (ankle breakingly rocky, if you're walking).
Then there's the Bwlch between Lliwedd and Snowdon, which follows the upper part of the Watkin Path, the ground up here (there) is also VERY rocky.
As Stu 74 says the last part, which pulls up to Bwlch Main is VERY loose scree. To even walk up it takes some effort (one step forward - two steps back sometimes).
As mentioned, there is only realistically 2 ways up Snowdon on a bike, Llanberis Path and Snowdon Ranger.
Also, just to reiterate Stu's (and my earlier) sentiments... Please don't underestimate the Snowdon Horseshoe Range, the average is 4 fatalities a year.
Especially if the weather is bad... Which it nearly always is.
Here's a link that shows the summit of Lliwedd, from Bwlch Main (on a rare clear day)...
http://www.pbase.com/ids5678/image/454327770 -
Me again... :roll:
Just had a look at the route down to Marin.
I think you're gonna struggle there too.
The route (which is a continuation of the Miners Path) from Pen-y-Gwryd to the top of the Glyders is not only steep, but also fairly boggy.
I've walked the path from Glyder Fach across to Y Foel Goch, the section close to Llyn Caseg-Fraith, where I took the picture below... I was ankle deep in sludge.
The ground from here down to Capel Curig is much the same all the way down.
Super views of Tryfan though...
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sadly, we've already WAY surpased the 4 fatality average this year. Seriously, don't underestimate this. If you've never been to North Wales before, you will be shocked by how rough, steep, rocky and craggy the mountains are, they really aren't rolling hills.
It also looks as though you are seriously underestimating the severity of the slope from near the summit of Glyder fach to the road junction that heads up the path.
I know of a route that goes from one end of the (poor) Marin trail to Capel Curig, and then across the Glyders, to descend down the quarry into Llanberis, from there, if you've still got enough energy left, it would be possible to ascend Snowdon via the Llanberis path.
From the top of Snowdon, it is then posibble to descend along the Rhyd Ddu path (I apologise, I'm local - and therefore don't know wny of the "proper" names for these trails :oops: ).
However, without you knowing the terrain in advance, it would be an extremely risky venture, certainly worthy of full-body armour, full face helmets and 6"+ travel all-mountain bikes.
I instead recommend that you come to ride a few known trails, and check out / rece the surrounding area.
This is an area that several people have used to train for such ascents as Everest - it's not for the faint hearted.
Oops, brainslip, I meant Rhyd Ddu path, not Capel Curig.0 -
how hard are the snowdon descents?0
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yeehaamcgee wrote:sadly, we've already WAY surpased the 4 fatality average this year.
I can believe it. The "4" average is for Snowdon Horseshoe alone. There are many more on and around the Glyders, Tryfan especially.
Even though I live in Norfolk, I'm in the area around twice a year, and am a member of the Oggi Valley Rescue Support group. The guy I stay with is a very active member, and gets called out probably 5 days out of the 7.yeehaamcgee wrote:From the top of Snowdon, it is then posibble to descend along the Capel Curig path (I apologise, I'm local - and therefore don't know wny of the "proper" names for these trails :oops: ).
The two paths that drop down from the summit in the direction of Capel Curig are the PYG track and the Miners Track. I wouldn't think the PYG track was viable for a descent, there's some fairly tricky parts, but the miners track would be good, but you MUST carry the bikes down to Llyn Glaslyn first, the path down is far too steep to ride. But from the lake it would make a superb ride back down to Pen-y-Pass.yeehaamcgee wrote:This is an area that several people have used to train for such ascents as Everest - it's not for the faint hearted.
The original Everest expedition (Edmund Hillary 1953, etc) trained on Tryfan, as it's a climb/scramble not a walk.
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sheepsteeth wrote:how hard are the snowdon descents?
The 2 "preferred" (or recognised) descents.
1. Llanberis Path pretty much follows the route of the Mountain Railway most of the way. The path is mostly gravel without too much in the way of tricky sections. It's a fairly easy path to walk up, and is the preferred route for the non-serious "Day-Tripping" walker. You know the sort... Jeans and Trainers brigade.
2. Snowdon Ranger is more technical, more rocky etc0 -
Still hard to do the llanberis trail in the unofficial record time of 8 minutes 40 seconds or so though.
(and no, don't try, I think this is WHY he have the voluntary bike ban)0 -
i love the idea of actually riding up and down a mountain, isnt that what this is all supposed to be about? might have to move somewhere with some gradients to practice on.
do either of those descents finnish any where near petes eats? i walked up and down snowdon when i was in basic training, the route down was a run on a simple gravel track and we ended up in petes eats, the imbibement of enormous vats of tea ensued. the route down took about 40 mins to run down iirc,
the route up was across a couple of other hills/mountains and included a bit where we had to cross a very high, very narrow pass, felt like walking acoss a tight rope! does anyone know what this route could have been? it took hours and hours and was a real moral effort on some parts!
id love to go back but am out of mountainous practice so would limit myself to a much simpler track, dont want to go being one of those statistics!!0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:Still hard to do the llanberis trail in the unofficial record time of 8 minutes 40 seconds or so though.
:shock: 8 mins 40 secs... :shock:
That's some record!!!0 -
Did the Llanberis descent for the first time in June. It was fantastichow hard are the snowdon descents? but not as easy as I thought it would be.
To give you an idea, I can do the MBR at CYB (and you know what that's like ) without missing a beat but felt near my limit doing this :shock: Some of it is very rough and technical and there is a really steep bit down some rock steps half way down.
The top bit is a bit hairy too if you are scared of heights (which I am :oops: )
Won't be attempting the Ranger path anytime soon, it's utter knarl!
Stu0 -
Sheep, yes, the Llanberis path ends basically at the top of Llanberis' high street - if you can call it that, about 5 to 10 minutes walk from Pete's Eats, and their "pint of tea" Great stuff!
Also, I know which path you mean along the ridge, but again, I don't know it's proper name, only what I know it as - "llwybr Crib Coch" or the "Crib Coch path". :oops:
That's thr trouble with living round here, I get so used to basically pointing and grunting at things, and everyone knows what you mean, that I never learn the proper names of things! I still don't know what most of the mountains are called in Welsh or English, but I know where they are!0 -
Damn right it is. Barking mad.pte1643 wrote:yeehaamcgee wrote:Still hard to do the llanberis trail in the unofficial record time of 8 minutes 40 seconds or so though.
:shock: 8 mins 40 secs... :shock:
That's some record!!!
I can't remember the exact time, it was 8 minutes and forty-something.
I think there were a few different places keeping score as well - so there may well be more than one "unofficial record"!
I think it's a hell of a shame that nobody's thought it a good idea to have a proper organised race down snowdon on mountain bikes once a year.
The run to Rhyd Ddu would be a great Avalanche cup kind of round.0 -
ahh, thats right, just googled it and i remember it being refered to as the knife edge, was very scary.
i dont mean to sound like an ignorant englishman but is there anyhere i can get a phonetic translation of some welsh?
how the hell do i pronounce:
-cyflym coch (im sure thats a word invented to embaress englishmen at coed y brenin)
-tarw (someone said it is pronounced "tar roo"?)
-cwm carn
im sure there is more!
ps please excuse my english ignorance.0 -
pps, i wish i had been into mtb riding at an earlier age, my old dear lives in rhyl and you wouldnt beleieve the amount of time i spent bored on leave there for weeks on end, if id had a bike i was right on the doorstep of some of the worlds best riding, if i had a time machine id make a few bike related changes.
then id go further back and teach welshmen about straight wide roads.0 -
sheepsteeth wrote:how the hell do i pronounce:
-cyflym coch (im sure thats a word invented to embaress englishmen at coed y brenin)
-tarw (someone said it is pronounced "tar roo"?)
-cwm carn
Cyflym Coch, pronounced Koovlim Koch, literal translation is Fast Red???
Tawr is indeed pronounced Taroo, meaning "Bull".
Cwm Carn, pronounced Koom Cairn, translates to (something like) Valley of Stones, or Rocky valley.
(Cwm = valley, Carn = stone, rock etc).0 -
pte1643 wrote:Cyflym Coch, pronounced Koovlim Koch, literal translation is Fast Red???
Tawr is indeed pronounced Taroo, meaning "Bull".
Cwm Carn, pronounced Koom Cairn, translates to (something like) Valley of Stones, or Rocky valley.
(Cwm = valley, Carn = stone, rock etc).
is coch pronounced c oc k or is the ch sounded in the same way as in chester?0 -
sheepsteeth wrote:is coch pronounced c oc k or is the ch sounded in the same way as in chester?
No, not Ch as in Chester, but not ck as in C oc k either.
It's a tricky one to put into type.
More like you're trying to clear your throat...
Sort of like the noise a cat makes when it's trying to cough up a hairball. :? 0 -
oohhh, i getcha, i know what its supposed to sound like. i think i have to much respect to try and pronounce stuff with a welsh accent, but ateast i know im in the right ball park.
i imagined cyflym coch was "caff lim c0ck"0 -
the "ch" in coch is it's own letter in welsh (our alphabet goes A B C Ch D Dd E, etc)sheepsteeth wrote:is coch pronounced c oc k or is the ch sounded in the same way as in chester?
it's the same sound as an explosion. I find that most people CAN make the sound, but they find it hard to use in speech, oddly.
imagine impersonating, phonetically, an explosion (I don;t mean, BOOM!), or a saw cutting through something.
It's the same pronounciation as the proper Scottish "Loch".
Oddly enough, a Friend of mine who's mother is Scottish, can END words in the letter "Ch", as in Loch, Coch, etc, but she can't start words with it, such as the Welsh "Chwarae" (to play) or "Chwerthin" (to laugh)0 -
I've had to look in my trusty Welsh translation book...
They have a reasonably good description in there.
Ch, pronuonced, as in the German word for night... Nacht.0
