Rapha Condor feedback

stevev

I'm not a veteran of Sportives having only riden two but here's my feedback. £29 to enter, Very poor route, people constantly getting lost due to poor sign posting. No timing chips just a poor lass at the end of the route with a stopwatch on a moblie phone. No goody bag at the end and you even had to pay for your burger at the end.

I spoke to few people at the end and the general feeling is that we had paid £29 for a poorly attended ride out which we could have done at home

Humph

Very similar opinion myself Steve, along with couple of friends who did it with me.

Enjoyed the morning especially much better weather than forecast and riding with decent likeminded fellow enthusiasts, but as you say could have arranged and ridden same straight from home.

Again for £29 a bottle of water not even provided when finishing, didn't stop at feed station so can't comment ontheir quality.

Unfortunately family commitments prevented me from staying on for Nocturne which looked good.

Lightbox

Whilst I applaud the contribution of the people involved in organising this event, especially the poor teenage girls who were most likely on the receiving end of comments from cyclists returning to log in, I am especially disappointed that this event followed the pattern of so many others: signage that was not present at vital junctions, no colour-coding to differentiate between short and long route, or outward or return legs.

At several points on the long route, I engaged in discussions with those around me to establish what the consensus was regarding the correct route. At the start, we were told that a diversion was in place at Wrea Green due to road-works, adding 7 miles to the 85 mile route. In the complete absence of any accurate signage, and realising that signs I was now following would send me back to Bowland, I eventually clocked 95 miles, after an impromptu Tour de Fylde, and finally getting back to Blackpool by aiming at the Tower, culminating in a triumphant ride along the Golden Mile. Had I not been late for a family commitment, I would have carried on for another 5 miles and made it a round 100.

The feed stations were good with SIS energy bars, gel and drinks but £29?

One word - signage.

stevev

I am both pleased and dissapointed that I'm not the only one to feel this way, I mentioned it to the guy at the end of the event who I'm guessing ran the event (glasses perhaps foreign accent and designer type leather jacket) He apologised and said he took it on board but I had the feeling the organsers had not studied what people have come to expect from a Sportive with regard to enjoyment and value for money.

The Wrong Bike

I rode this, was a nice route mostly, apart from the town sections of so many traffic lights.

It wasnt worth the cash, it was just a big club run really, I only saw one feed station late on, nothing near any of the climbs etc

Also, it would have been nice to have a proper finish line, but then thats just me and my racing head on.

What times did people record? i only took for when moving, so was home in 5hrs07 of cycling.

It wasnt anywhere near as good as the Cairngorm classic, which was a similar price.

JH

magnatom

I don't normally post on here (generally a cyclechatter) but I thought I would share my thoughts...

No timing chips. This was promised in the pre-ride blurb. No personal route map. This was promised in the pre-ride blurb. No pre-ride hospitality worth mentioning. This was promised in the pre-ride blurb.

Route signage was atrocious, I, and many others took wrong turns (I managed to correct mine quickly on all occasions). Not the fault of tampering, it was the fault of the organisers. Signs were very hard to see and often confusing. No advanced warning of junctions. On some junctions you had to actually get to the junctions before looking both ways to see a marker further down the road, to work out which way to go.

The first feed station (just before the big climb and one I was hoping to fill my water bottles at) didn't exist. Wasn't there at all. The only feed station was at about 60 miles and consisted of energy drinks, and energy gels. That was it. This was the only food stop. Oh and they put far to much powder in the energy drinks, very sickly.

'Plenty of marshals on the course to keep you right' we were told. Saw three on way out of Blackpool. No others.

On leaving the start we were told due to road works that we would now be cycling 91 miles instead of 85 miles, due to road works. There were no road works. (I measured 88 miles).

On arrival at the finish, welcome was muted. No goody bag, at all. None. Nothing. Nada. If we wanted a sports massage we could pay £5 for it (free on Trossachs Ton).

Oh dear. I don't think I will be doing that one again.

Le Commentateur

If these things were promised in the sales blurb but not delivered on the day are people entitled to a refund? What are the consumers' rights with these kinds of events? If it were some cycling club organising this you understand the amateurism, but, you know, this is done under the brand name of a known company.

FransJacques

I wasn't there. I had no clue this ride was on. But hey, that won't stop me from commenting anyway in general:

- More and more sportives are defo "for profit" and not about the love of the sport

- Rapha and Condor are all about maximizing "spend" and "share of wallet" from cyclists like you and I

- If there is no timing chip involved and if there's not road closures paid for, I have NO issues with riding pirate on such rides. I own 2 cars so pay a hell of a lot of road tax, so on any given Sunday I have every right to use whatever road I want in the UK.

- End of.

Not Eddy Merckx

I actually really enjoyed the ride itself and the craic with the other riders (a great group of people out on the road on Saturday!) but, as I wrote on another forum, I can't see how the high entry fee of £29.50 could have been justified considering the lack of electronic timing, lack of a finishing gift, etc., when other sportives that charge a lot less offer those features and more.

Signage was an issue in at least a couple of places. I did the 97km ride and ended up off-course twice along with other riders (I ended up doing 99km according to my cycling computer) but still managed to be the first back to the finish along with another rider who shared the workload over the second half of the course. We got applause at the finish from the staff and from some of the Rapha-Condor pro riders, which was nice, and the organizers did ask for our opinions of the route, the signage, etc. so at least seemed keen to take any feedback onboard.

I would actually do this again as I had a great day out (helped, admittedly, by my best-ever ride), but only if the price reflects the level of amenities provided next time. The event was comparable with the Tour of Tweeddale in terms of what was provided but the difference is the Tour of Tweeddale cost around a tenner to enter. The organizers of the Rapha event need to either raise the standard of their event or lower the price.

8)

Not Eddy Merckx

As an addendum, the registration area of the event website states:

Sport Systems Ltd. are handling all the Online and Postal entries & are also chip timing this event.

Hmmm... :?:

8)

jonah1

I thought it was a pretty poor show really.

Signage was poor, hard to notice.

At the second feed station on the long route all that was left was drink and energy gels.

No electronic timing, just a young girl using stopwatch on her iphone.

No promised BBQ. No trade stands and Rapha samples sale when i got back.

The racing in the evening was exciting, but that was more to do with horde's of totally wasted stag and hen nights trying to get across the road before being hit by cyclists and lead motorbike.

Anonymous

Sounds totally disgraceful...lies, deceit...very little effort...an appalling offering to the many good willed cyclists who paid good money and arranged there lives around this event...the promoters and organisers should maybe bow there heads in shame and offer a refund?...or at least part refund.

Ive heard many mumps and moans about sportives over the years but these are almost entirely petty....the feedback here is very alarming.

Lets all hope this is a one off and that all the other sportives on the scene live up to an already excellent standard.

andy_from_embsay

It does sound pretty poor. We were at the Pendle Pedal that covered some of the same ground (the lumpy bit) and whilst we had a few gripes about marshalls being half asleep (including one whose slumbers meant a lot of people missed a feedstop) it seems like we had a better day all round.

itisaboutthebike

'Raphable !'

stevev

I recieved a reply yesterday so thought i would post it for other riders who may be interested, it adds clarity but nothing around value for money. My sums tell me they grossed 7.5K it seems unfair that the riders shoul shoulder the 'risk' of running at a possible loss with regard to the timing system.

Hello Steve,
Sorry that you did not enjoy your sportive ride on Saturday.
With regard the signage, I think that you are being unfair. Myself and another fellow rider spent 12 hours on the Friday putting up 107 signs over the course. Being a sportive rider yourself you would know that these are not allowed to be fixed signs and have to be temporary signs and therefore can be moved. We have to place the signs high enough so as not to be tampered with. In all we had 3 signs that had been moved and these were at vital junctions.
I have ridden various Sportive events over the years and have on a few occasions missed signs along the route or have been at junctions with no signage, this is unfortunately part and parcel of ridding sportives. It is physically impossible to man every junction with a marshall.

The week before the event all entries were emailed from Sport Systems that the 3 updated route maps had been put on the team website and riders 'should print of their own copy to bring with for their reference'.
We also at the HQ had an Ordinance Survey map pinned up and each rider upon sign was given emergency numbers in case they strayed off course, 2 being HQ numbers.
Sport Systems were going to provide the chip timing at 1500 riders but with only 250 entries it was not viable at £3500.00 to use them.
We had asked them to email the entrants and unfortunately they overlooked this matter.
We are sorry that you did not enjoy it but we have had positive feedback from Cycle Britain and Cycling Weekly who both rode the event.
Regards,
Damon Warnes.

Sportiver

Here's the organiser's details if you want to claim a refund.

Basically you paid for electronic timing and then didn't get it. The route failed to be signed properly.

Damon Warnes, Rapha Condor Organiser

Tel: 01253 621875

Mobile: 07534 933681

Email: damonwarnes@aol.com

softlad

stevev wrote:

We are sorry that you did not enjoy it but we have had positive feedback from Cycle Britain and Cycling Weekly who both rode the event.
Regards,
Damon Warnes.

in other words - "as long as the press give us a good write-up, we could't give a fvck what the paying riders think......"

stevev

softlad wrote:

stevev wrote:

We are sorry that you did not enjoy it but we have had positive feedback from Cycle Britain and Cycling Weekly who both rode the event.
Regards,
Damon Warnes.

in other words - "as long as the press give us a good write-up, we could't give a fvck what the paying riders think......"

Thats how I read it, because the press will want to pee of one off their main advertisers :roll:

magnatom

That is a very poor reply!

I will be e-mailing them with my own thoughts later today.

I will not be taking part in any Rapha Condor events in the future with an attitude like that.

Gazzaputt

stevev did you point him towards this thread? I would.

Absolutely shocking reading all this feedback.

Sportiver

Who are Cycle Britain? Do they have any idea what a Sportive is?

softlad

googling 'cycle britain' doesn't return much - apart from this fella...

http://twitter.com/cyclebritain

magnatom

Here is the complaint I have just sent today (yes I know it is long!)

Dear Sir/madam,

I am doing something that I never thought I would have to do. I am writing a complaint about the Rapha Condor Blackpool Sportive that was held in Blackpool and the surrounding area on the 1^st of August 2009.

As a relatively new rider to Sportives I was looking forward to this one as this would be my first timed event. I was looking forward to measuring myself against the other riders. Your sportive also sounded like a nice route through some countryside which I had never ridden before, so I was happy to make the trip from Glasgow to take part in the event. However, it was upon registration that things started to go wrong.

During registration I noticed that no-one mentioned or handed me a timing chip for the event. I was surprised at this and asked one of the girls on the registration desk (who were all very pleasant) when we were to receive a chip. She knew nothing about them and had to go and ask for advice. A chap came and spoke to me describing how the decision had been taken 2 weeks before the race not to have chip timing as the costs did not justify it. Why then, were participants not told of this change? The organiser (I assume that is who he was) suggested that Sports Systems were supposed to e-mail everyone, but didn’t. However, why did Rapha Condor not chase this up, and/or contact the participants themselves. I was not amused.

I also noticed that we did not receive a personal map of the route. It had been suggested in the pre-ride information that we would receive one. Why was this map not supplied?

Upon registering I was also surprised by the lack of trade stands. There appeared to be some form of BBQ, however, this seemed very disorganised and I could not see any food actually being provided to participants. This was all at odds with the pre-ride information that we had been provided which suggested, ‘Meet the Rapha Condor pro riders face to face and get pictures and autographs. There will be plenty happening at the start HQ along with trade stands by Rapha and Condor.’ There was no attempt to introduce any of the pro riders, either.

Just as we were setting off we were informed that the long route would now be 6 miles longer due to road works and diversions. However, the person setting us off suggested that this would not be a problem as it was well sign posted and there would be, ‘…plenty of marshals on the course…’. I only saw three marshals on the way out of Blackpool over the first mile and no further marshals over the whole course. I never came across any diversions.

The signage was very poor. Its colour was very difficult to see from a distance, and it was often placed beyond the junction where you had to make the turn. It was especially confusing at roundabouts. I and many others made wrong turns as a result. I understand that there are limitations to what signage can be used and where it can be placed, however, bright signs well in advance of turns, with additional signs as close to the turn as possible are not impossible. Roundabout signs can also be designed in such a way that they cannot be miss-interpreted.

I was particularly surprised when I reached the bottom of the Trough of Bowland and I hadn’t come across the promised first food stop. I wondered if I had missed it. In fact, after talking to other cyclists I found that no-one had found it. It didn’t exist. I had planned my drinks etc with the aim of filling up at this first stop. So as I started my ascent I had ran out of fluid and so found the next 20 miles or so particularly difficult due to the onset of mild dehydration. If you promise a food/drink stop, you provide a food/drink stop!! Very, very poor!

I later arrived at the ‘second’ food/drink stop. It was situated right across from a church with a wedding going on. Apparently the groom was not amused, understandably. I was surprised to find only energy gels and sports drinks available. For some 85 miles is a normal club run, however, for others, burning several thousand calories over the course of 5-6 hours requires that food is eaten. To not provide any substantial food is very poor (especially with one stop missing!).

Upon arrival back at the finish (which was 88 miles and not 85 or 91!) the welcome was muted. In fact there was no welcome to speak of. No trade stalls, no BBQ, and surprisingly no goodie bag; just a request to de-register. This was very much an anticlimax. However, for an extra £5 you could get a sports massage! More like a slap in the face!

I have had the pleasure, earlier this year to take part in the Trossachs Ton 100 mile ride organised by Action Medical Research. This cost £25. For this money we got a very well marshalled route with excellent signage (signs saying things like ‘keep going’, ‘food stop soon’ etc), a detailed OS map, excellent food stops with a full buffet lunch provided at one of them, an excellent goody bag with gels, t-shirt, waterbottle etc, a medal, and a free sports massage. Therefore, considering the lack of timing, lack of stops, poor signage, lack of marshals, lack of food, lack of goody bag, and lack of massage, can you please inform me what my entry fee went towards? Surely as a significant amount of what was promised never transpired a refund is in order?

This event has tainted my opinion of the Rapha Condor cycling team and of both of the individual sponsors. Surely it is bad business practice to treat possible future customers with such contempt. As I feel that both Condor and Rapha might be interested to know about feedback from this event and how it may affect their brand, I have copied them both into this e-mail.


I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards

niedermeyer

Rapha can't be seen offering good value - it would adversely affect their brand image. Lets face it, if you took £29 to Rapha for clothing, you;'d probably get 1 sock. This is obviously the cyclosportive equivalent.

The Wrong Bike

Good complaint letter, lets see what comes from it... nothing... I hope they dont organise it next year, people will be spared the hassle. I made the most of it and enjoyed the ride, but there was nothing for the money paid, I could have spent £29 on bracket for my satnav and ridden the course using that.

Does anyone have any idea what the fastest time was? excl all the traffic light stops? my computer time was 5:07

magnatom

No idea about the fastest time, but I managed a rolling time of 5 hours 21 minutes. I might have been quicker had I not ran out of fluid just before the Trough of Bowland though...

stevev

Excellent e-mail Magnatom far better than mine, let us know how you get with your reply.

Steve

magnatom

Will do.

andrewjoseph

My wife and I did the 'flat out in the fens ride' by kilo to go. It cost £25 each. There were only about 300 entrants, We had timing chips.

mididoctors3

Gazzaputt wrote:

stevev did you point him towards this thread? I would.

Absolutely shocking reading all this feedback.

I agree sounds like a blatant rip off

the guy is a hotel owner in blackpool...

rapha condor shouldn't have outsourced it without maintaining some quality control

go over his head straight to condor cycles and rapha clothing

Humph

Splendid letter of complaint that, not being such an experienced sportive rider as yet I wasn't sure to feel so aggrieved initially at the lack of value for money - the finish was most underwhelming.
Glad to hear (not the right expression really) we all felt the same - please post any response you may receive.

Cheers
H