Best Way to Improve on Club Training Rides

hodgesr285

Help! I recently joined a local cycling club and am struggling to maintain the pace of the 40 mile ride (excl 8 miles to and from the ride) .
I have been riding for 5 years, about 2-3 times a week (summer); once a week (winter), generally up to 35 miles at around 17-18mph ave.
I have undertaken 5 rides with group, initially managing the average 20mph pace. My problem arises when the group has the addition of more experienced riders who push the pace beyond the normal, this normally manifests itself on the uphill sections. The uphills are not steep, but can be long sections, where the speed is maintained, only not by me!
I joined the group to push myself further, and to enjoy the sport with a group of likeminded people, but am left out of the back of the pack, sometimes by 100-200 yds, and have on occasion had to have a member literally push my back up to the pack.
I can handle this embarrassment, but don't want to spoil the ride for others. They assure me this isn't the case - but it is a training ride and I don't want to slow others.
What is the best way for me to train to maintain this increase in my speed over this distance?

chrisw12

hodgesr285 wrote:

Help! I recently joined a local cycling club and am struggling to maintain the pace of the 40 mile ride (excl 8 miles to and from the ride) .
I have been riding for 5 years, about 2-3 times a week (summer); once a week (winter), generally up to 35 miles at around 17-18mph ave.
I have undertaken 5 rides with group, initially managing the average 20mph pace. My problem arises when the group has the addition of more experienced riders who push the pace beyond the normal, this normally manifests itself on the uphill sections. The uphills are not steep, but can be long sections, where the speed is maintained, only not by me!
I joined the group to push myself further, and to enjoy the sport with a group of likeminded people, but am left out of the back of the pack, sometimes by 100-200 yds, and have on occasion had to have a member literally push my back up to the pack.
I can handle this embarrassment, but don't want to spoil the ride for others. They assure me this isn't the case - but it is a training ride and I don't want to slow others.
What is the best way for me to train to maintain this increase in my speed over this distance?

'... have been riding for 5 years, about 2-3 times a week (summer); once a week (winter), generally up to 35 miles'

Very simple answer. you have to go out ridding more, a lot more. I'm very surprised that you can keep up at all, if you only train once/twice/thrice a week.

I was going to say that, that is the trouble with cycling in that it's something you have to work at, but in fairness it's true of all hobbies/sports, you have to commit to more than once or twice a week if you want to get anywhere.

If your able to commit to more time then people on here will give you suggestions on how best to use that time.

jocksyboy

I think the response is a little harsh and simplistic and we h probably (should Have)moved on from the more is better as that isn't always true! :shock:

It sounds as though you need to work on the climbing. There are 2 things that will help you lose weight and gain power (or preferably both). Try varying your workouts more and increase intensity of at least one. search the forums for intervals and try some. I also found doing 10mile tts really helped my power and climbing ability.

Keep it up and by all means cycle more but you could gain an awful lot by using your riding time more constuctively. 8)

hodgesr285

Thanks both for the replies.
I found the first one a touch harsh, but recognise the truth behind it. I am happy to 'get out there more', but wanted guidance on what kind of 'more'.
I now have something with which to work.......

Bronzie

Don't forget a lot of these guys are probably racing through the summer months and are pretty much at peak fitness now so don't be too down about it.

You may well find more time on the bike beneficial, or you could use your current time more wisely. Steady rides over 35 miles will not make you faster once you reach a certain level - you need to add in some rides at higher intensities. Interval training or short time trials as suggested is the way forward.

chrisw12

I did say I'd give the simple answer.

I'm only saying more is better when you're not actually doing that much, no offence ment.

I just think that worrying about the details should come latter, the first step should be to try to increase the number of times you could go out. Perhaps it is just me but if I was only cycling a max of three times a week, even if I had the best training programme in the world I would show no improvement. I might be able to maintain the same fitness, but there's no way I'd improve.

So yes it might come across as a bit harsh but I think that even the best plan in the world is not going to see much happen on a 3 rides a week strategy.

But fine if you can manage more than three times a week then follow Jocks advice, I'd also do a search for the threads on 2x20 on here as if you are time restricted then these can be a life saver.

Also, what concerned me was that you said you'd only been getting out once during the winter. Again for me the winter is the critical training time. Try to form a plan now that will take you into the winter and aim to compete on the clubruns next year. I'm not saying give the club runs up just don't be overly concerned with getting dropped.

Remember you are ridding with people who at this time of year will be looking at peak fitness. These people would have put many hours and many hard miles into training, there is no way you are going to keep up with them at the moment. Make a long term plan to increase your training time and fitness and trust me by next year you will find it much easier.

Hope that's a bit more helpful, I'm off to knock out 3x20 then a 2hr sweet spot ride as part of my 20hr a week plan (this is an easy week as I'm tapering for Sunday's club run) :roll: :shock:

kevin_stephens

clubs can be a mixed bag, some centred around racing, others more diverse. If the local club doesn't have a slower group then maybe look for other clubs. I guess a longer ride at a slower pace, eg 16 mph for 80 miles wil help you progress a lot more then getting knackered trying to keep up with riders who are a lot fitter. In time you should be able to progress to the faster group

BigDarbs

If it makes you feel any better, I only ride 3 times a week (occasionally 4, but rarely) and I can cut it at the front and contest the sprint in a 3rd cat road race, (which in theory is with the boys who are gaining points to be 2nd cat).My times in my evening club time trial put me in the top 10. So don't think that because you can only ride 3 times a week you are on to a loser. Also a similar training routine allowed me to race mountain bikes at national expert level for 10 years, so it can't be that wrong!

I find the key is to be consistant, i.e. always ride 3 times a week, even in winter, and make every ride worthwhile.

I generally do 2 x 1.5 hour rides that are fast with sprints or intervals built in and one longer ride of 2.5- 3 hours at a tempo type pace, sprinting over every crest, climb hills as hard as possible and don't have a cafe stop! I may also fit a 2 x 20 ride in if I can.

During the winter my intestity may be lower, and more power/intervals come in during the spring/summer. The advantage with riding one day on - one day off, is you won't overtrain no matter how hard you ride.You are already doing the right thing by riding with other faster riders, that will help no end. To ride fast you have got to train fast.

BigDarbs

Also I meant to add... don't compare yourself too much with other guys on the club run. There is too much variability in riding history, training levels, jobs that influence fitness, racing level etc, etc that you will never know about, and everybody says they train more than they do!

What Bronzie said is very true.

chrisw12

BigDarbs wrote:

I find the key is to be consistant, i.e. always ride 3 times a week, even in winter, and make every ride worthwhile.

So you agree with me then?

In fairness your training regime three times a week I bet, is a bit different to the op's three times a week and comes off the back of 10 years training.

BigDarbs

chrisw12 wrote:

BigDarbs wrote:

I find the key is to be consistant, i.e. always ride 3 times a week, even in winter, and make every ride worthwhile.

So you agree with me then?

In fairness your training regime three times a week I bet, is a bit different to the op's three times a week and comes off the back of 10 years training.

Yes, that is something I thought of after, it does depend how much fitness you bring to the table. I have been racing since 1989, and only had one real break in the past 20 years.

Having said that while I would love the ability to do a 20hr week programme it will never happen, hence 6 or 7 hours a week can be made very useful if you don't waste any of it. I know guys who have got their 2nd cat (eventually) by doing not a great deal more than me.

smithy1.0

I agree... it's all about quality, not quantity. Shorter, harder efforts will help you to build your speed. This will also help on longer rides as you will be able to hold a lower pace for a longer duration.

As for 20hrs a week... all well and good if you have the time for it, and to recover (which is the most important thing!), but that kind of volume really isn't needed to be competitive. There are guys who do half that and are competitive at top national level.

chrisw12

Just to clarify, my 20 hour per week comment was a joke, the clue was the smiley faces next to it.

This topic of time spent training has been debated on the tt forum:-
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/ind ... opic=34319


My favourite quote is from the BBAR winner Nik Bowlder.

In reply to
'...think mark holton said that you can get 90% or slightly more of your potential with 3 hours per week quality training, but then its the extra 10% thats very difficult and time consuming.'


I think its more like 4hrs/80%, 8hrs 90%, 16hrs 95%, 16hrs 97%, 32 hrs99%...

Considering someone who is World champ material, 80% of ultimate performance would still be National level.'

Just re reading that thread, yes there are a few very good cyclists (on there) doing few hours, but it's worth noting that those guys know what they're doing, have years in the sport and have a lot of natural talent. It's also worth noting that the ones advocating less hours also train using a power meter and hence I bet their intensity/quality is bang on.

Edwin

That's a good point re: quality/intensity - I did pretty big volumes of training all winter (13-14 hours, 200+ miles a week, plus gym sessions) and my racing results have been thouroughly disappointing this season.
I now intend to get a powermeter and turbo, and train a bit more scientifically instead of grinding out thousands of junk miles. Having said that, you do need a decent base to start from, so maybe try to get a few more miles in over the winter to build your base, then work on speed in the spring. That's what most racers recommend, but it might be worth talking to some of the people that are dropping you, get some ideas from them.
I'd also add it's worth persevering, I used to go out and get dropped every Sunday and it probably took me a few years before I could keep up. OK I'm not winning anything yet but I've only been dropped once in a race this year, and even managed to stay in the bunch in a few E123's, so keep going, it takes a while to build it up.

Bronzie

Kevin Stephens wrote:

I guess a longer ride at a slower pace, eg 16 mph for 80 miles wil help you progress a lot more then getting knackered trying to keep up with riders who are a lot fitter.

I disagree - riding 80 miles @ 16mph will make you good at riding longish distances relatively slowly. As has been said already on this thread, to ride fast you must train fast.

freehub

I've found the best way to train on club rides is to just stick at them, at first it's tough, soon get better though. Taking proper recovery.

Shorter rides help too. My club has 3 main groups setting off on saturdays, the beginner group, intermediate group, (H) for Hard and for Howard) group, now it does not take long to progress from the beginner group, the middle group is not much shorter than the H group just slower, doing that for a couple weeks then progress up to the H group, just a matter of working up progressing, I do the H group runs and I find it tough sometimes and sometimes I come back dead but I dont regret it and enjoy it still.

I dont know how I've improved apart from riding, I know I dont tend to ride steady and do recovery rides, most of my recovery is off the bike, when I'm on the bike I make sure I dont get tired out but keep a good pace. I used to commute 25 miles through 4 days a week for college, do the sunday runs which where 100+ miles and then on the days off college also cycle, but that soons lead to problems and I took more recovery and I guess that helped me level up.

Jaeger

hodgesr285 wrote:

I have been riding for 5 years, generally up to 35 miles at around 17-18mph ave.
I have undertaken 5 rides with group, initially managing the average 20mph pace.

That is a pretty fast club run I would suggest, averaging 20mph. And 17-18mph on your own isn't too shabby either. Is that hilly or fairly flat?

Chrissz

Stick with it mate and pick on the last guy (in front of you) to hang off. You'll soon find you can move up a place - like climbing a ladder. Always aim for someone who seems to be slightly better than you and aim to beat them - then move on tou your next target. Before too long you'll find yourself at the front

hodgesr285

Thanks for all the advice & encouragement. Plenty to work with.
The ride is mostly flat with a few longish inclines - couldn't really call them hills (still sat in saddle!).
Feeling p****d off now though - can't wait to get out, but off work with a bad back. Time to reflect........

freehub

You can stay sat in the saddle up steap hills you know :P

kirkster

I joined my club and get blown out the back after 40 miles where there is a long, slow climb and have to ride back to base on my own. As such I am thrashing that climb on weekday nights on my own to practise.

Thats the thing with cycling, if you can't keep up you're dropped. Period. Many other sports, such as football, rubgy etc if you are not up to the standrard of the rest you are at least still on the field and can have a bit of a go. With cycling your gone and on your own - and in all fairness you can't really expect 40 odd other riders to wait for you. And even a small difference in fitness can mean the dofference of beign in the pack or blown out the back!!!

This is discouraging sometimes but we have to be realistic about it.

My own solution? Drop some weight. When i have doen that feel i coudl be as good as anyone on the club.

Cheers Steve

BigDarbs

kirkster wrote:

I joined my club and get blown out the back after 40 miles where there is a long, slow climb and have to ride back to base on my own. As such I am thrashing that climb on weekday nights on my own to practise.

Thats the way to do it...face your nemesis!

There is a hill on my local club TT route that is nothing major, just one I never looked forward to, especially as it is near the end of the circuit. So I just made sure that plenty of my rides included this hill. I don't bat an eyelid at it now, I even look forward to it. On Sunday it was at the end of a 70 mile, 18 mph ride on my own and I was quite comfortable on the incline.