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When does one ride become two?

BigDarbsBigDarbs Posts: 132
edited August 2009 in Training, fitness and health
When on a long ride, for example 80 miles, if I stop for something to eat at 40 miles when does the length of the break become long enough to almost count it as two 40 mile rides?

I read about long training rides avoiding a cafe stop, so the break must be deemed to have some recovery effect, so how short does a break be to have negligable effect?

Posts

  • MettanMettan Posts: 2,103
    edited July 2009
    A sportive's a good example - if you stop at a feed station for ~ 4 mins (for example) standing up, it's still 1 ride imho - however, if you sit down for 10 + minutes or whatever, it becomes a bit more questionable (maybe, 1 ride with a short "break" :?: ). Not that it matters, as such - just enjoy the ride, stops or no stops. I'd certainly say, if you're sitting down for 10 + mins or whatever, you're definately getting a "break" or rest "of sorts", fwiw - everyone has different opinions though. My training rides are only short (25-50 milers) (knee injuries) so if I stop, it's always for like ~ 1-2 min standing above the bike (quick stretch of the neck/back/shoulders, drink etc). If I did longer rides, maybe I'd want more of a break :?: Think this subject came up a while ago on here - not sure what the concensus was.

    Not sure about the "science" side of it re. "recovery effect" in breaks etc - some others might know.)
  • JaegerJaeger Posts: 439
    10 mins is a bit harsh, Met. A p*nct*re takes about that long to repair and doesnt mean the ride is suddenly 2 shorter rides!

    I would say anything above a hour or so. A tea stop on the sunday run is usually half an hour or so and within 15mins back on the road feels like you never had a break. If anything, it seems harder to get the legs going again, rather than benefiting from the break!
  • MettanMettan Posts: 2,103
    Jaeger wrote:
    10 mins is a bit harsh, Met. A p*nct*re takes about that long to repair and doesnt mean the ride is suddenly 2 shorter rides!

    That's a good point - I was alluding to "sitting down" during a rest (again, not that it matters :wink: .....just a light-hearted, chatty topic).
  • BigDarbsBigDarbs Posts: 132
    Jaeger wrote:
    If anything, it seems harder to get the legs going again, rather than benefiting from the break!

    I am glad that's not just me! Sometimes if I meet up with other riders and they are faffing about, I ride around in circles to keep my legs going, if I stop it takes me ages to get revved up again!
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,601
    BigDarbs wrote:
    When on a long ride, for example 80 miles, if I stop for something to eat at 40 miles when does the length of the break become long enough to almost count it as two 40 mile rides?

    I read about long training rides avoiding a cafe stop, so the break must be deemed to have some recovery effect, so how short does a break be to have negligable effect?

    Not trying to sound nasty, but aren't you creating a problem that doesn't exist? So to speak. It makes about as much sense as saying that if you quit pedaling for a moment or two and coast, do you have to subtract those miles from your total for the day?
  • BigDarbsBigDarbs Posts: 132
    dennisn wrote:
    Not trying to sound nasty, but aren't you creating a problem that doesn't exist? So to speak. It makes about as much sense as saying that if you quit pedaling for a moment or two and coast, do you have to subtract those miles from your total for the day?

    No, the driver for the question was because I read in a training book (I don't recall which one) that as the winter period passes, and the intensity build up through spring starts that the longer rides should be continuous with the cafe stop avoided, so my query was, if there is a break in a ride, when is it deemed recovery....valid question I feel.
  • guv001guv001 Posts: 688
    [/quote]

    Not trying to sound nasty, but aren't you creating a problem that doesn't exist? So to speak. It makes about as much sense as saying that if you quit pedaling for a moment or two and coast, do you have to subtract those miles from your total for the day?[/quote]

    I would say that you should take off any cruising miles you have done at the end of your ride. Doesn't everyone do this anyway?????

    :lol::lol:
  • MettanMettan Posts: 2,103
    BigDarbs wrote:
    I read in a training book (I don't recall which one) that as the winter period passes, and the intensity build up through spring starts that the longer rides should be continuous with the cafe stop avoided,

    I'd imagine from a fitness perspective, your 80 miles are still good miles even with a 30 min break or whatever half way - (think I misinterpreted the question a bit :oops: ) Even 40 continuous miles at a sufficiently high intensity will give your cardio system a good workout.
  • BhimaBhima Posts: 2,145
    The only disadvantage to stopping is that you need to do another warm-up when you get going again.

    Your heart rate returns to normal after a couple of minutes. Your muscles cool down after about 10 minutes and the bloodflow returns to other areas of your body which were shut-down during your leg's blood-binge, so you need to spend a good 5 minutes doing light spinning to get things going again.

    If anything, stopping to eat some fast-absorbing carbs would make the rest of the journey easier.

    I usually don't bother as I take enough stuff with me on-the-bike. It's only water I usually stop for now, which doesn't take long.

    So a ride becomes 2 when you stop long enough to justify another warm-up in my opinion.
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,513
    A single ride becomes two rides when your muscles are fully recovered from the first effort, regardless of whether you have 'cooled down' or not.

    Given that it usually takes at least several hours for your muscles to recover fully (if not overnight), then it is probably fair to say that anything completed in a single day constitutes a single ride, regardless of stops in between. The exception to this might be someone who rides a couple of hours early morning, followed by another couple of hours early evening - which would obviosly constitute two separate rides.

    Whether it makes sense to have a lengthy stop on a ride depends entrely on why you are riding, and/or what types of event you may be training for.
  • synchronicitysynchronicity Posts: 1,415
    :idea: It's only two rides if you stop, go back home and go out again 'afresh'.

    Changing your clothes is optional, as is swapping bikes.
  • TarmacExpertTarmacExpert Posts: 204
    BigDarbs wrote:
    No, the driver for the question was because I read in a training book (I don't recall which one) that as the winter period passes, and the intensity build up through spring starts that the longer rides should be continuous with the cafe stop avoided, so my query was, if there is a break in a ride, when is it deemed recovery....valid question I feel.
    I think it depends what the author had in mind for what training objective would be achieved by a single continuous ride vs one with a cafe stop. It may well be that what he had in mind is causing the body to start to predominantly burn fat as its source of fuel. If this is the case, stopping for 10 mins probably wouldn't matter much, it would be the food eaten while stopped at the cafe that would cause the problem, as you may eat something that triggers insulin release, causing your body to revert to burning glucose rather than fat as fuel.
  • BigDarbs wrote:
    When on a long ride, for example 80 miles, if I stop for something to eat at 40 miles when does the length of the break become long enough to almost count it as two 40 mile rides?

    I read about long training rides avoiding a cafe stop, so the break must be deemed to have some recovery effect, so how short does a break be to have negligable effect?
    To quote Robert Chung, "when it's long enough to eat a burrito and drink a beer, then it's definitely two rides".
    :wink:
  • EdwinEdwin Posts: 785
    Mmmm burrito and beer, I could be persuaded stop for that.

    I don't think there's a definitive answer to this question though. Even a few minutes is enough to get your breath back, but to count as two seperate rides, I'd say an hour at least - but that's a completely random value. As others have said, it depends what you are training for. You don't get a cafe stop in the middle of an 80 mile road race, so why have one in training? Then again if you're just trying to build up to a certain distance, I don't think anyone is going to argue it doesn't count as one ride because you stopped for half an hour to get something to eat.
    Personally I don't like doing sunday cafe stop runs for example, not because I think there's a big recovery effect that devalues the training, but it just wastes time and makes the ride take up most of the day. I'd rather go flat out then get home and do something else (mainly try to recover!). Also, why not eat on the bike? You should be able to take enough food in your pockets for an 80 miler, without needing to stop to eat.
    If not, try to build up your continous distance gradually?
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 22,753
    I'd say at the point at which it feels like it is two rides. If you ride out, stop for lunch and carry on, it may feel like one ride, may feel like two, or might feel like long interval training (!). If you ride to work, do a day's work, it probably feels like two.

    And I guess it depends what your reason for riding is.
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    If you're training for e.g. a sportive that you will do with only very brief stops then a training ride with only very brief stops would make sense. I'd say it doesn't really matter if you have a cafe stop as long as you know that you don't NEED a cafe stop.

    I will only have a proper food stop if I'm cycling 300km+ as I find it difficult to carry enough food for the entire ride. Even then I'll usually grab a sandwich and get back on the bike and eat it as I ride.
    More problems but still living....
  • andy_wrxandy_wrx Posts: 3,396
    :idea: It's only two rides if you stop, go back home and go out again 'afresh'.

    Changing your clothes is optional, as is swapping bikes.

    Nah, rubbish ! 8)

    I cycle to work in the morning, cycle home again in the evening

    = two rides

    I've showered, got changed, done a day's work, had lunch, 9 hours have passed, so clearly it's two separate rides




    The old Century-a-month-challenge (now moved to CC & YACF ?) said that for that purpose it counted as two rides if you went home, but not if you stopped en-route at a caff.

    I thought that was a bit simplistic
    - e.g. I was out on the bike one day, realised I had a slow puncture, wasn't that far from home so went back, found the thorn in the tyre and fitted a new tube in the garage, Mrs wrx brought me a coffee as I worked, I used the loo in the utility room, then went back out again
    - so as far as I'm concerned, this was one ride
    - I didn't actually go in the house, I was stopped for all of about 10-15 minutes, I fixed the tyre just as I would at the roadside except the garage was out of the wind, I could have bought the coffee at a burgervan or caff, and I could have had a pee in a hedge somewhere
    - if I'd gone in, had lunch and messed-about for an hour or so, that would have counted as two : I think it's the *and then gone out again later*-ness of it that would make it two.
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,601
    And if you, somehow, finally decide that you "did" 2 rides instead of one, this means what? Something like - oh no, I did 2 rides testerday, therefore I must do........today?
    That's where I lose the whole thing. :roll: :roll: :roll:
  • BigDarbsBigDarbs Posts: 132
    dennisn wrote:
    And if you, somehow, finally decide that you "did" 2 rides instead of one, this means what? Something like - oh no, I did 2 rides testerday, therefore I must do........today?
    That's where I lose the whole thing. :roll: :roll: :roll:

    Lets say you have a goal of riding 100 miles, a century.

    1 - If you ride 100 miles in one day, but you had a 8 hour break in the middle, have you ridden a century?

    2 - If you ride 100 miles in one day, but you had a 4 hour break in the middle, have you ridden a century?

    3 - If you ride 100 miles in one day, but you had a 1 hour break in the middle, have you ridden a century?

    4 - If you ride 100 miles in one day, but you had a 15 minute break in the middle, have you ridden a century?

    That is what I am getting at?
  • MettanMettan Posts: 2,103
    BigDarbs wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    And if you, somehow, finally decide that you "did" 2 rides instead of one, this means what? Something like - oh no, I did 2 rides testerday, therefore I must do........today?
    That's where I lose the whole thing. :roll: :roll: :roll:

    Lets say you have a goal of riding 100 miles, a century.

    1 - If you ride 100 miles in one day, but you had a 8 hour break in the middle, have you ridden a century?

    2 - If you ride 100 miles in one day, but you had a 4 hour break in the middle, have you ridden a century?

    3 - If you ride 100 miles in one day, but you had a 1 hour break in the middle, have you ridden a century?

    4 - If you ride 100 miles in one day, but you had a 15 minute break in the middle, have you ridden a century?

    That is what I am getting at?

    1 - 2 - 3 - No

    4 - Yes - but with caveats.

    Difficult question, in some ways.
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,601
    BigDarbs wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    And if you, somehow, finally decide that you "did" 2 rides instead of one, this means what? Something like - oh no, I did 2 rides testerday, therefore I must do........today?
    That's where I lose the whole thing. :roll: :roll: :roll:

    Lets say you have a goal of riding 100 miles, a century.

    1 - If you ride 100 miles in one day, but you had a 8 hour break in the middle, have you ridden a century?

    2 - If you ride 100 miles in one day, but you had a 4 hour break in the middle, have you ridden a century?

    3 - If you ride 100 miles in one day, but you had a 1 hour break in the middle, have you ridden a century?

    4 - If you ride 100 miles in one day, but you had a 15 minute break in the middle, have you ridden a century?

    That is what I am getting at?

    I guess what I'm saying is "does it matter?". If you ride 100 miles, take a break or two in the middle, and hit it again, of what use is this information, and to whom. You rode 100 miles, good job, let it go at that. It's like I said before, this makes about as much sense as
    trying to figure out how many miles you've actually pedaled, as opposed to coasted. Or how many miles you actually were putting power to the pedals as opposed to just letting you're legs spin. Also should you count downhill miles or do the uphill miles simply get doubled because they are harder? Maybe they should be tripled, depending on the slope?
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