How much protein do you have?

simon_says

I had myself wondering how much protein would you like-minded folks (I guess) have on a typical day?

I was thinking of leaning towards less meat and more veg (with less protein) because while I'm happy with my weight and fitness I'm finding the amount of water I require for hydration higher than I would like. I also like a small fish sushi portion after some work-outs, it's good for omega-3 and replenishes some electrolytes lost through sweat but again it's more protein.

I'm aware of how essential protein is, complete protein dishes etc. and as such I won't be silly enough to avoid it for the sake of taking less water I just wondered what thought you boys and girls put into it for training and what not.

Cheers.

xRichx

I try to get around 15-20g of protein in every meal, therefore a day of 5-6 meals would generally add up to around 100-120g protein. I'll also add in a shake of 50g protein after a hard session.

I've never found fluid intake to be a problem, altho I do tend to drink around 2+ litres per day in general.

Why is the hydration intake a problem?

simon_says

xRichx wrote:

I try to get around 15-20g of protein in every meal, therefore a day of 5-6 meals would generally add up to around 100-120g protein. I'll also add in a shake of 50g protein after a hard session.

I've never found fluid intake to be a problem, altho I do tend to drink around 2+ litres per day in general.

Why is the hydration intake a problem?

The problem is what comes in comes out, more visits to the toilet during the day but other than that not much. Spreading it out like you say you're doing is pretty much textbook stuff.

Put it in terms of me communicating with my own body; I feel too often like my body is asking certain questions and I answer with protein more than I should at the expense of requiring more water to maintain fluid balance. I'll get dialed in eventually. :-)

ut_och_cykla

Protein is almost completely digested by teh body - you are unlikely to pass much out in faeces - most goes out via teh kidneys i think.

Survival levels are recommended by WHO as 0,8g per kg body weight. Body builders eat maybe 3 times that with little ill effect so somewhere inbetween is probably about right.

e.g if you weigh 70 kg you might need 1.5g x 70 = 105g protein per day. Even high protein foods like turkey breat are only 25% protien, so yppu'd need to eat teh equivalent to more than 400g turkey breast everyday.
If you're trying to lose weight it can be difficultt to get enough protein

Heavy/marked Increases in training loads probaly warrant a higher level, steady levels of training warrant lower down the scale.

Too little protein doesnot onl affect y muscle size (you can't build muscle from carbs) it will affect your immune system. repeated colds/infections can be a sign of too little.

markjohnson-coaching

The word Protein derives from the Greek word meaning "Primary Source"

Simon, I highly recommend buying Paul Chek's book: How To Eat Move & Be Healthy, inside the book you can find out how much protein, carbs & fat is right for you as an individual & how much water you need to drink daily (body weight in KG x 0.033 = ltrs per day) + depending on your sweet rate anywhere from 500 - 1000mltrs per hour during exercise.

Prior to the imports of food around the turn of the century which physiologically speaking is the blink of an eye what you ate would be determined by one thing - availability.

It's important to note also that ALL of your growth & repairs hormones are made directly from animal protein & fat, so every time you exercise or are awake for that matter your breaking cells down so to replace those cells you need protein & fat.

I recommend doing the Metabolic Typing test in the book or if you want a more personal detailed approach my 5 hour coaching package would be perfect for you:

http://www.markjohnson-coaching.co.uk/n ... s_page.htm

Regards

Mark Johnson
C.H.E.K. HLC & PT

www.markjohnson-coaching.co.uk

simon_says

Thanks everyone, can I also quickly recommend this podcast for those interested in learning about nutrition on the move;

http://www.learnoutloud.com/Podcast-Directory/Self-Development/Diet-and-Nutrition/Introduction-to-Human-Nutrition-Podcast/16941#podcastlink

It's introduction to human nutrition by Professor Nancy Amy at UC Berkeley. Back later, I need to go to the shops! Thanks again.

DomPro

Protein bars are tasty

Bhima

I have fish for breakfast = 30g
Then a load of chicken after a ride = 40g
About 2 hrs before bed, i'll have a milkshake with added whey protein = 30g

That's perfect according to my doctor, as I weigh 66 kg and he said I needed 150% of my bodyweight/1000 grams of protein for the average 4 hour ride, or 1.5 grams for every kg of body mass.

Depends though - if I do serious intervals or hills, i'll have a bit more, as my muscles will need more. If I'm out for a short ride where my legs don't feel painful 2 hours afterwards, i'll ditch the protein shake. So it depends on how much pain i'm in after the ride.

Pain = muscle damage which needs repairing in order to adapt to the training.

That's how I think of it, anyway.

neeb

It's important to note also that ALL of your growth & repairs hormones are made directly from animal protein & fat,

Where the protein & fat comes from (animal or otherwise) is irrelevant. Protein is broken down into individual amino acids before being absorbed through the gut, and the proteins you actually use in your body are synthesised from scratch using these amino acids. You just need to make sure you are getting enough of the essential amino acids. Animal protein has a good balance of amino acids (not surprisingly, since we are animals too) but a vegetarian diet that doesn't just rely on a single source of protein will give you exactly the same molecules too.

It's important to note also that ALL of your growth & repairs hormones are made directly from animal protein & fat, so every time you exercise or are awake for that matter your breaking cells down so to replace those cells you need protein & fat.

And all of your enzymes too, which is more to the point. These little busy bodies are made of protein, but fueled mainly by carbohydrates, which is why you need more carbs than protein and they are arguably more important. If your body was a car, the protein would be the replacement parts for ones that have worn out, but the carbs would be the petrol.

little upstart

Like Neeb said you can get your aminos from a good vegie diet, total myth about needing loads of protein post workout, unless yer a bodybuilder taking Deca and Sus,and even then not the amonts most sted heads take. Have a well balanced diet you will be fine, meat smells,its been dead for well over a week, before you get your lips on it. I look it like this- your body is like a wall- Carbs are your bricklayer- Proteins are your bricks -Fats are your mortor. Miss one out and the wall falls down or dont get built.

simon_says

I believe there are nine essential amino acids and two essential fatty-acid families. There are no essential carbohydrates but if you avoid them, fibre specifically, let's just say it'll be a pain in the ass.

Veggie is fine, but you do need to be more considerate.

neeb

There are no essential carbohydrates

Yes, I guess strictly speaking your body can synthesise carbs (in the form of glucose) from amino acids, but it requires lots of energy and is very inefficient. Would it be possible to survive on fats and proteins alone without eating any carbs? (assuming you could find the ingredients for such a diet). You'd certainly need to eat huge quantities and would be rather ill...

fatbee

"Where the protein & fat comes from (animal or otherwise) is irrelevant"

Not really true: Sources of protein differ wildly in their "willingness" or "inclination" to give that protein up to the human body. Or to look at it the other way around, the human body finds it much more difficult extract protein from some foods which contain it, than from some others. Do some research on "Bio-Availability" for more info.

Meat, fish and dairy are generally best.

As a very general rule-of-thumb, protein in vegetable matter is far less bio-available than that contained in most animal products. It's all very well veggies banging-on about the protein content of chick-peas, but look into how much of that protein actually makes its way into your system, and how much you just pee out, and I think you'll be quite surprised.

Same's true of EFAs. Those who reject oily fish or fish oils as a source of these healthful nutrients have often trumpeted flaxseed and its oil as a good non-animal alternative. Trouble is, recent studies have shown that whilst linseeds may be high in Omega 3s, they stay that way in your body!

neeb

As a very general rule-of-thumb, protein in vegetable matter is far less bio-available than that contained in most animal products. It's all very well veggies banging-on about the protein content of chick-peas, but look into how much of that protein actually makes its way into your system, and how much you just pee out, and I think you'll be quite surprised.

There are two relevant factors here influencing whether amino acids you eat in the form of protein are incorporated in your body. The first is just whether the food is broken down sufficiently in your gut to allow the individual amino acids to be absorbed over the gut wall (remember, /protein/ is never absorbed, it is always broken down into amino acids before being absorbed), the second is the ratios of the various amino-acids - obviously if a food has different ratios of amino acids from that needed to build the protein that your body wants to build then the the amino acids present in excess quantities will be excreted. The fact is however that if you eat even a slightly well balanced vegetarian diet, you will get all of the amino acids you need (unless perhaps you are vegan). The "bioavailability" thing is only relevant if you are comparing a single food source to another - in practice no vegetarians get all of their protein from a single source, so you have to think of bioavailability in terms of combinations of food sources.

If you are a body builder and desperate to flood your system with protein to get as much muscle mass as possible then taking single protein sources with exactly the right ratios of amino acids might appeal, but body builders are not very healthy nor are they good cyclists. There's a lot of evidence to link diets high in animal protein (red meat in particular) to long term health problems including cancer. The fact is that you can get all of the protein you need even for intensive cycling training from a vegetarian diet (there have been several vegetarian pros, including Robert Millar) and it's likely to be healthier in the long term.

neeb

Same's true of EFAs. Those who reject oily fish or fish oils as a source of these healthful nutrients have often trumpeted flaxseed and its oil as a good non-animal alternative. Trouble is, recent studies have shown that whilst linseeds may be high in Omega 3s, they stay that way in your body!

You could be right on that one. The problem with linseed as a source of Omega 3s is that it is very high in ALAs rather than EPA and DHA.

sampras38

From my old bodybuilding days I've learned the importance of protein and muscle recovery. Although cycling requires a completely different balance I still make sure I get plenty in my diet. Nearly all my protien comes from white meats, fish, eggs, natural yogurt and off course the odd recovery drink after a hard ride. I try to eat a little with every meal if I can and it seems to work. I drink water all day long so do problems with hydration. I also use the odd nuun tablet with water on longer rides.

Woodchip

fatbee wrote:

Same's true of EFAs. Those who reject oily fish or fish oils as a source of these healthful nutrients have often trumpeted flaxseed and its oil as a good non-animal alternative. Trouble is, recent studies have shown that whilst linseeds may be high in Omega 3s, they stay that way in your body!

How about for those that are allergic to fish? Any fish oil gives me joint pain, so I'm lumbered with Flaxseed oil supplements (or hemp oil but it's no fun without the psycholigal side effects). Are you telling me that these are doing no good what so ever and I should give attempting to get my EFAs?

neeb

How about for those that are allergic to fish? Any fish oil gives me joint pain, so I'm lumbered with Flaxseed oil supplements (or hemp oil but it's no fun without the psycholigal side effects). Are you telling me that these are doing no good what so ever and I should give attempting to get my EFAs?

No, they will do you good as your body can convert ALA into EPA and other Omega 3s, but unfortunately it's a rather inefficient process and fish is the best direct source of EPA & GLA. There is also some evidence that diets very high in ALA (unlike other Omega 3s) may not be good for your prostate...

Best vegetarian source of EPA and some other EFAs seems to be spirulina.

Headhuunter

neeb wrote:

How about for those that are allergic to fish? Any fish oil gives me joint pain, so I'm lumbered with Flaxseed oil supplements (or hemp oil but it's no fun without the psycholigal side effects). Are you telling me that these are doing no good what so ever and I should give attempting to get my EFAs?

No, they will do you good as your body can convert ALA into EPA and other Omega 3s, but unfortunately it's a rather inefficient process and fish is the best direct source of EPA & GLA. There is also some evidence that diets very high in ALA (unlike other Omega 3s) may not be good for your prostate...

Best vegetarian source of EPA and some other EFAs seems to be spirulina.

That's interesting about ALA and the prostate. I hadn't heard that. I take purified and high concentrate DHA and EPA cod liver oil and I eat quite a bit of linseed which I grind up and add to cereal. I also make spirulina "shakes", but that stuff has to one of the most revolting "food"stuffs around, it make me nearly gag. If it wasn't good for you I really wouldn't bother!