Rant about BBC and TdF

malcsussex

Could not wait to hear the coverage on BBC this morning about TdF. Got back from Paris very late last night so have not seen or heard any BBC coverage.

Not even mentioned on Radio 4 sports bulletin and mentioned in passing on Radio 5!

What is going on??? :!:

mask of sanity

It was all on ITV4 (and Eurosport i think but i only have freeview) so maybe they don't the rights to show it.

daviesee

The BEEB are taking a bit of a pasting overall.

See this similar thread

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12638891

Nuggs

Some of the pronunciation of the riders' names shows that no one in the newsroom has any interest in/experience of the sport. For example, do any of you know "Fabien Cansellerer"?

beverick

You've also got to remember broadcasting rights. It could be that the BBC either couldn;t afford or didn't want to pay the asking price.

Bob

cedargreen

There are many good things about the Beeb but its coverage of cycling is lamentable. Cavendish and Wiggins superb performances in the world's toughest sporting event were third (after formula 1and swimming) in the sports section of the 10pm news on BBC1. This has nothing to do with TV rights etc, and everything to do with the BBC just not 'getting' cycling, in any form.

I don't really know why this is- personally I think it's something to do with an Oxbridge elitist attitude which sees sport in terms of tennis and golf. Coverage of track cycling is better, but that involves olympic medals.

You might imagine the media would seize on sporting success like Cavendish'- especially in a sport which has traditionally been dominated by other nations, but if Andy Murray's pet hamster got swine flu it would get more coverage from the Beeb than the TdF.

It's probably also down to marketing and focus groups- following the herd rather than generating interest in something new and creating an audience where none existed (or was thought to exist) previously.

Perhaps we should be grateful in a way- part of the attraction of cycling for me was that it was foreign and exotic and something most people were either unaware of or completely perplexed by. And do we really want some posh ****** BBC presenter who knows next to nothing about almost everything spending 3 weeks swanning round France with a vast entourage at license payers expense? Leave it to Phil Ligget and Paul Sherwen I say.

spen666

cedargreen wrote:

There are many good things about the Beeb but its coverage of cycling is lamentable. Cavendish and Wiggins superb performances in the world's toughest sporting event were third (after formula 1and swimming) in the sports section of the 10pm news on BBC1. This has nothing to do with TV rights etc, and everything to do with the BBC just not 'getting' cycling, in any form.

I suspect it has EVERYTHING to do with TV rights

The BBC are hardly going to lead TV news with a sporting event that they do not have footage of when there are 2 other events of at least comparable public interest where they do have the rights to the same.

I don't really know why this is- personally I think it's something to do with an Oxbridge elitist attitude which sees sport in terms of tennis and golf. Coverage of track cycling is better, but that involves olympic medals.

You might imagine the media would seize on sporting success like Cavendish'- especially in a sport which has traditionally been dominated by other nations, but if Andy Murray's pet hamster got swine flu it would get more coverage from the Beeb than the TdF.

It's probably also down to marketing and focus groups- following the herd rather than generating interest in something new and creating an audience where none existed (or was thought to exist) previously.

Perhaps we should be grateful in a way- part of the attraction of cycling for me was that it was foreign and exotic and something most people were either unaware of or completely perplexed by. And do we really want some posh ****** BBC presenter who knows next to nothing about almost everything spending 3 weeks swanning round France with a vast entourage at license payers expense? Leave it to Phil Ligget and Paul Sherwen I say.

You seem to want to snipe at the BBC whether they do cover the TdF or not

nicensleazy

I actually wrote a complaint to the BBC about this exact subject. P1ss poor!

mhuk

I haven't checked this but I'm sure TV companies are allowed to use footage from other TV channels for up to 24hrs after original transmission but not live. This is why CH4 news isn't available in the CH4 online archives because the 24hr right expires.

geoff_ss

However, the original complaint was the sports report on BBC radio 4 so TV rights don't come into it.

Certainly the Today programme never mentioned it in the sports news this morning at 8.30ish. Spent the whole 5 minute slot talking about F1 and giving horse racing tips. I suppose it made a change they didn't mention football for once.

Geoff

cedargreen

I can't deny it, I do like a bit of sniping

mgcycleguy

... I'm normally first to complain about the BBC coverage of cycling... however to be fair, the guy who does the sports coverage on a weekend... actually did a piece on Saturday morning all about Saturdays coming stage... and he rode up mount Ventoux ! (he did fall off at the end), but even so.... Chapeau !!!

mgcycleguy

cedargreen wrote:

but if Andy Murray's pet hamster got swine flu it would get more coverage from the Beeb than the TdF.
.

.. OMG... little "Willi Wallace" has got swine flu Nooooooo

Philip S

Geoff_SS wrote:

However, the original complaint was the sports report on BBC radio 4 so TV rights don't come into it.

Certainly the Today programme never mentioned it in the sports news this morning at 8.30ish. Spent the whole 5 minute slot talking about F1 and giving horse racing tips. I suppose it made a change they didn't mention football for once.

Geoff

It got a mention at 7.25am Today Prog sports bulletin. You'll have to get up earlier!

The Beeb has gone absolutely overboard on the sports it has the rights for in the past couple of years - Wimbledon I can stomach, because I quite enjoy it, it's only on for 2 weeks, and it's always been on the Beeb, so it feels like a part of the cultural calendar. I am, however, sick to the back teeth of being told what the hell is going on in Formula 1 and being exhorted to watch the next Grand Prix every bloody week. Even more so as this year seems to have exposed for all to see just to what extent it's more the car than the driver that wins the race....

Mayniac

[quote="Philip S
. I am, however, sick to the back teeth of being told what the hell is going on in Formula 1 and being exhorted to watch the next Grand Prix every bloody week. Even more so as this year seems to have exposed for all to see just to what extent it's more the car than the driver that wins the race....[/quote]

or having the prat of a commentator on 5 Live who thinks he can make f1 sound interesting by SHOUTING

PostieJohn

I think not only are you being harsh, you are also listening to the wrong BBC output.

If I wanted sport, I'd be listening to 5-live 'the home of news and SPORT'.
Simon Brotherton was there sending back race reports every 30mins.

I caught an interview by Richard Bacon with Cav (sadly Bacon didn't know what he was talking about, so Cav hung up).

Plus numerous interviews with our track stars (Pendleton, Hayles (I think), etc) talking about the event..

What do you expect the BBC interrupting the afternoon play to tell you Thor has taken 3 place in an intermiedate sprint.

pneumatic

Agreed, harsh: I was on my way to Tescos after the finish in Paris and I heard Simon Brotherton on 5-live give an intelligent, informed and fair summary of what had happened in the Tour as a whole. If there was to be any complaint, it might have been that they spent most of the time talking about anglophone riders, but he covered that at the end in an amusing way by adding "Oh and by the way, Alberto Contador won the race!"

the report was long enough to have me sitting in my parking spot until it had finished.

Earlier in the Tour I heard him give several reports, which included explaining to the uninitiated the fairly daunting tactical arrangements in road racing. After all, in most sports, somebody scores the most points or crosses the finishing line first and that is about it.

geoff_ss

Philip S wrote:

Geoff_SS wrote:

However, the original complaint was the sports report on BBC radio 4 so TV rights don't come into it.

Certainly the Today programme never mentioned it in the sports news this morning at 8.30ish. Spent the whole 5 minute slot talking about F1 and giving horse racing tips. I suppose it made a change they didn't mention football for once.

Geoff

It got a mention at 7.25am Today Prog sports bulletin. You'll have to get up earlier!

.

No way! I spent years getting up at 6 am and being on my bike by 6.30 to cycle to work. Now I'm a retired gentleman I get up at 9 am and let the streets get aired and the workers at work before I venture out

Geoff

phil s

Just to quash a few misconceptions bandied about here. BBC Radio Five Live has covered the Tour de France for 15 years now. In the past two years there's been at least 90mins commentary of the end of each stage live through the BBC Sport website (broadcast to a global audience this year) or on Radio Five Live Sports Extra on DAB and red button.
There've been updates into hourly Five Live sports desks from the start to the end of each stage at half-past, most hours. The same goes for World Service Radio at ten-to, most hours. Both Five Live and World Service interrupted programming for live commentary at the end of many stages. Consider that on Five Live this happens at "drive time" in a news and current affairs schedule it's not a bad result, is it?
In addition the radio team at the TdeF did reports and chat for other news programmes on Five Live, World Service and Radio 4 as well as providing material for BBC regional outlets from BBC London to BBC Scotland. There were also interviews with riders, pundits and other players.
You may not have heard the Tour report on Radio 4 on Monday morning - I suggest you take that up with the Today editor. That does not mean to say the BBC does not cover the Tour de France. It just means you have not heard about it on your preferred outlet.
The team at the TdeF of Simon Brotherton, Graham Jones and Phil Sheehan have covered 42 Tours between them and know how to pronounce Cancellara. None of the above are Oxbridge-educated.

daviesee

phil s wrote:

Just to quash a few misconceptions bandied about here. BBC Radio Five Live has covered the Tour de France for 15 years now. In the past two years there's been at least 90mins commentary of the end of each stage live through the BBC Sport website (broadcast to a global audience this year) or on Radio Five Live Sports Extra on DAB and red button.
There've been updates into hourly Five Live sports desks from the start to the end of each stage at half-past, most hours. The same goes for World Service Radio at ten-to, most hours. Both Five Live and World Service interrupted programming for live commentary at the end of many stages. Consider that on Five Live this happens at "drive time" in a news and current affairs schedule it's not a bad result, is it?
In addition the radio team at the TdeF did reports and chat for other news programmes on Five Live, World Service and Radio 4 as well as providing material for BBC regional outlets from BBC London to BBC Scotland. There were also interviews with riders, pundits and other players.
You may not have heard the Tour report on Radio 4 on Monday morning - I suggest you take that up with the Today editor. That does not mean to say the BBC does not cover the Tour de France. It just means you have not heard about it on your preferred outlet.
The team at the TdeF of Simon Brotherton, Graham Jones and Phil Sheehan have covered 42 Tours between them and know how to pronounce Cancellara. None of the above are Oxbridge-educated.

I think what is getting people's goat is not the BBCs coverage as a whole but the way cycling is presented to the public on the main channel, BBC1.

Maybe if they used the informed gentlemen listed above during the sports section of the main news then the general public would be better informed and the BBC1 sports section wouldn't be ridiculed by us :P

phil s

daviesee wrote:

Maybe if they used the informed gentlemen listed above during the sports section of the main news then the general public would be better informed and the BBC1 sports section wouldn't be ridiculed by us :P

Maybe if they used the informed gentlemen for BBC1 then those gentlemen wouldn't be able to be at the Tour de France covering it and doing live commentaries on every stage. BBC1 is not a sports channel, and the BBC doesn't have TV rights to the Tour.
I am responding to the OP, who had an issue with Radio 4, and others who've pointed out a couple of gaffes by 'general' sports presenters back in London during the Tour. Like I said, Radio 5 Live has been at every TdeF since 1994 and that team now provides live commentary on every stage. Have any of Sky's platforms done that? No.

teagar

nicensleazy wrote:

I actually wrote a complaint to the BBC about this exact subject. P1ss poor!

So you're the person who complains about stuff on the TV, the one who ofcom always mention.


I see...

softlad

phil s wrote:

Maybe if they used the informed gentlemen for BBC1 then those gentlemen wouldn't be able to be at the Tour de France covering it and doing live commentaries on every stage. BBC1 is not a sports channel, and the BBC doesn't have TV rights to the Tour.
I am responding to the OP, who had an issue with Radio 4, and others who've pointed out a couple of gaffes by 'general' sports presenters back in London during the Tour. Like I said, Radio 5 Live has been at every TdeF since 1994 and that team now provides live commentary on every stage. Have any of Sky's platforms done that? No.

so in other words, we cannot expect balanced and accurate reporting of the TdF on any other BBC channel except 5 Live - correct..?

Whatever happened to 'joined-up thinking' ..?

daviesee

phil s wrote:

daviesee wrote:

Maybe if they used the informed gentlemen listed above during the sports section of the main news then the general public would be better informed and the BBC1 sports section wouldn't be ridiculed by us :P

Maybe if they used the informed gentlemen for BBC1 then those gentlemen wouldn't be able to be at the Tour de France covering it and doing live commentaries on every stage. BBC1 is not a sports channel, and the BBC doesn't have TV rights to the Tour.
I am responding to the OP, who had an issue with Radio 4, and others who've pointed out a couple of gaffes by 'general' sports presenters back in London during the Tour. Like I said, Radio 5 Live has been at every TdeF since 1994 and that team now provides live commentary on every stage. Have any of Sky's platforms done that? No.

Funny, they seem to be able to link up to reporters (sport or otherwise) worldwide when they feel like it. A pre-recorded report for the night news wouldn't be too difficult to arrange either. They don't have to show the race, just report on it and I would have thought Cav and Wiggo's performances warranted reporting, and accurate, informed reporting at that.

phil s

softlad wrote:

so in other words, we cannot expect balanced and accurate reporting of the TdF on any other BBC channel except 5 Live - correct..?
Whatever happened to 'joined-up thinking' ..?

That's what you've inferred, not what I've said. I am responsible for the coverage on Five Live, not on the myriad other platforms. Nowt to do with joined up thinking, just the reality of such a large organisation. Would you think it fair if I held you accountable for work done by a different department within your company?

daviesee wrote:

A pre-recorded report for the night news wouldn't be too difficult to arrange either.

Easier said than done at an event like the Tour de France. I doubt you can even begin to fathom the logistics of covering such an event. And back to my original point, it's down to the editor on the relevant programme not the radio team in France.

daviesee

phil s wrote:

softlad wrote:

so in other words, we cannot expect balanced and accurate reporting of the TdF on any other BBC channel except 5 Live - correct..?
Whatever happened to 'joined-up thinking' ..?

That's what you've inferred, not what I've said. I am responsible for the coverage on Five Live, not on the myriad other platforms. Nowt to do with joined up thinking, just the reality of such a large organisation. Would you think it fair if I held you accountable for work done by a different department within your company?

daviesee wrote:

A pre-recorded report for the night news wouldn't be too difficult to arrange either.

Easier said than done at an event like the Tour de France. I doubt you can even begin to fathom the logistics of covering such an event. And back to my original point, it's down to the editor on the relevant programme not the radio team in France.

Fair enough. I bow down to actual experience.
It still doesn't get away from the fact that whoever writes the reports for the talking heads to read out need to be better informed.
Why not utilies those on the pay-roll who have already done a report, even if for another section. If only the BBC news editor was reading this. If only........

simple_salmon

Phil S - I agree with you that 5 Live's reporting and coverage is excellent - however - the BBC itself uses the phrase 'One BBC' to describe how it wishes to operate and it manages to get joined up coverage of other sports such as cricket and football OK.

There is simply no excuse for sloppy and illinformed reporting and/or pronunciation of names on ANY BBC channel given the resources at their disposal and ESPECIALLY on the flagship channel BBC 1.

softlad

phil s wrote:

That's what you've inferred, not what I've said. I am responsible for the coverage on Five Live, not on the myriad other platforms. Nowt to do with joined up thinking, just the reality of such a large organisation. Would you think it fair if I held you accountable for work done by a different department within your company?

perhaps not - but when the final arbiter of that work is the 'general public' I would have thought it would be in the Corporation's best interests to ensure consistent quality across its output..?

Maybe you should have a word with your 'editor in chief'..

phil s

Some valid points here and some misconceptions about how things work, but I do concede things could be better across the whole Corporation. It's not as if I don't feel like banging a head against a brick wall at times. Sometimes all you can do is perform your own job well, and to hope that others will see the light.

Peacenik

mgcycleguy wrote:

... I'm normally first to complain about the BBC coverage of cycling... however to be fair, the guy who does the sports coverage on a weekend... actually did a piece on Saturday morning all about Saturdays coming stage... and he rode up mount Ventoux ! (he did fall off at the end), but even so.... Chapeau !!!

Chapeau indeed. I know for a fact that that project was in 'development hell' (to borrow a Lalaland phrase) from March. It is hard competing against football and crficket etc... for coverage on BBC One. We should all thank Phil S and colleagues for the amazing job 5-Live does with the Tour every year. In spite of my preconceptions I became addicted to their live text commentary on each stage.

Le Commentateur

I think what is getting people's goat is not the BBCs coverage as a whole but the way cycling is presented to the public on the main channel, BBC1.

We* all know where to go to get accurate and informed commentary and analysis, so I wonder why everybody gets worked up by BBC1's effort. Yes they could do better in their mainsream reports, but I sense that some of these complaints are from people who are perhaps sub-consciously seeking some kind of approval, to be conferred from on high via the voice of authority the BBC.



*My criticism, as a frequent viewer of BBC News Channel but an infrequent radio listener, is that that channel does not attempt to refer viewers to the Radio 5 coverage at all – this thread is the first I knew of it. Generally I rely on cyclingnews.com and a few other web sites, as, in the past, I have found the BBC's main sports news web site to be less interesting.