We have all... the time... in the world
Comments
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Coriander wrote:Always Tyred wrote:
Careful - obligation of confidentiality.Coriander wrote:Before the conversation, get copies of your and the new JDs, your letter of redundancy and everything else that's relevant on to your computer and also email them to your private email address.
She'll need to share them with any lawyer she might consult. That's all I meant her to use them for.
I'm sorry, are we still talking about cleavage here? :oops:
Sounds like the employer is being fecking cheeky.- 2023 Vielo V+1
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Take her out for a beer and get her talking.lost_in_thought wrote:Oh and the HR girl finishes at the end of this week too.
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Always Tyred wrote:
Take her out for a beer and get her talking.lost_in_thought wrote:Oh and the HR girl finishes at the end of this week too.
She's going straight back to Sweden on friday afternoon - I've already offered!0 -
Before any legal consultation you will need copies of your contract, letters informing you of your redundancy, everything relevant. You need to show this to your solicitor to allow him to make a judgement on your case.
Your goal shouldn't be to take your currently employers to a tribunal but to get a settlement that compensates you for loss of livelihood and lets them off with what on face value appears to be blatantly unfair dismissal. However, it's a game of bluff - they must believe that you will take them to an employment tribunal. Once you're sure of your case tell them you want a compromise agreement, in which you basically sign away your legal rights in return for some cash. Depending on how long you've been with the firm, 6 months'-1year's salary is the minimum you should be aiming for. You must get a compromise agreement assesed by a qualified solicitor who can advise you better than I can.
Remember, they're depriving you of your llivelihood and whatever money you get may have to last you some time ! In a redundancy situation you can get up to £30k tax free, after that it's taxable. They'll try to bully you and make it seem like you're being unreasonable when all you're doing is sticking up for your legal rights.
Go get 'em
:twisted:
I'm off to print some ads that appear to be for my employer and for very similar jobs to mine, then I'm off to see my solicitor....Misguided Idealist0 -
LiT,
Just a few thoughts on the unfair dismissal thing:
1. I'm no expert but it sounds like it is plausible that you have a case
2. However, it sounds like the package that you have been offered is probably a fair bit better than statutory minimum?
3. If so, it is quite likely that if you started an unfair dismissal action you would lose everything above statutory minimum unless/until you win the case or get a new settlement. You have to trade off risk and reward here.
4. The key point! You are far to young in your career to make it worth putting an unfair dismissal dispute on your CV. Whatever the rights and the wrongs, it WILL scare potential employers. You won't be able to keep it from them because you'll need to explain why you are not providing a reference from your last employer. As is painfully obvious from this thread, loads of people are being made redundant at the moment - there's no CV stigma from that given the economic climate. You want to leave on amicable terms with your current employers. The calculation might be different if you were near the end of your career but given where you are, a clean CV is worth WAY more than any settlement that you might win (I totally disregard the possibility that you might get reinstated - that won't happen and it sounds likely you are not that keen on the job already)
My Dad was an HR Director, this is the advice that he gave a mate of mine who was contemplating an unfair dismissal action in his early 30s.
It leaves a bitter taste but hopefully all the fantastic ideas for what you could do with the paid time off will help take that away.
Good luck (and to DDD and Coriander),
J0 -
Fireblade, could you PM me your solicitor's details?0
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BTW, I wouldn't try to stop you from getting legal advice but, once you have that, please do consider the possibility than you could win legally but still lose in the long term...
J0 -
jedster wrote:LiT,
Just a few thoughts on the unfair dismissal thing:
1. I'm no expert but it sounds like it is plausible that you have a case
2. However, it sounds like the package that you have been offered is probably a fair bit better than statutory minimum?
3. If so, it is quite likely that if you started an unfair dismissal action you would lose everything above statutory minimum unless/until you win the case or get a new settlement. You have to trade off risk and reward here.
4. The key point! You are far to young in your career to make it worth putting an unfair dismissal dispute on your CV. Whatever the rights and the wrongs, it WILL scare potential employers. You won't be able to keep it from them because you'll need to explain why you are not providing a reference from your last employer. As is painfully obvious from this thread, loads of people are being made redundant at the moment - there's no CV stigma from that given the economic climate. You want to leave on amicable terms with your current employers. The calculation might be different if you were near the end of your career but given where you are, a clean CV is worth WAY more than any settlement that you might win (I totally disregard the possibility that you might get reinstated - that won't happen and it sounds likely you are not that keen on the job already)
My Dad was an HR Director, this is the advice that he gave a mate of mine who was contemplating an unfair dismissal action in his early 30s.
It leaves a bitter taste but hopefully all the fantastic ideas for what you could do with the paid time off will help take that away.
Good luck (and to DDD and Coriander),
J
Fair points again. What I've been offered is no better than what they are bound by law to give me - ie statutory plus my notice, notice with tax deducted.0 -
A good solicitor will warn a client what they can lose as well as what they can win.
From being in a very, very similar situation in March, I think it's unlikley Lits will benefit from taking things further, but I can't blame her for at least checking her legal position.0 -
And a cheap solicitor may not.Coriander wrote:A good solicitor will warn a client what they can lose as well as what they can win.0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:Fireblade, could you PM me your solicitor's details?
Done. No harm in taking advice - and a compromise agreement is a very common outcome that shouldn't have any repercussions on your future employability. But don't listen to me, take professional advice.Misguided Idealist0 -
Fair points again. What I've been offered is no better than what they are bound by law to give me - ie statutory plus my notice, notice with tax deducted.
Ah, OK - you just have a nice long notice period. That makes a bit of a difference.
Sounds like a written request for them to explain the role redundant/not redundant thing and why you were not interviewed for the new role might nudge them into a better offer without needing to go nuclear. Sounds like HR may have made what is known in the trade as a "technical fook up" - i.e., not gone to the trouble of going through due process.
<i>but I can't blame her for at least checking her legal position.
</i>
absolutely, makes perfect sense to do so.
J0 -
I feel bad now for being in a job and desperately wanting out! I fear the NHS bubble is gonna burst when the second wave of efficiency savings hit (not 2010 but 2011come though by then the Olympics will come and it may be alright after that) and its a sh*te organisation.
Charity sector appears to be booming with marketing jobs, its a sign that they're getting competitive with each other.... soon over saturation will happen and that bubble wil burst as well...
Dark Times ahead.
Save everything.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Thanks Fireblade.
And J, I would do that, but have intimated it already and basically been given the brush-off by the group counsel, he has said 'it's not an asset manager that we're recruiting'.
Yet the advert says 'asset manager', as does the job spec, all the corerspondence, and the new guy's contract.0 -
Yet the advert says 'asset manager', as does the job spec, all the corerspondence, and the new guy's contract.
And it might be that a solicitor's letter asking him to explain those contradictions might cause them to rethink. Like I say, well worth getting the advice.
J0 -
When my son won an unfair dismissal case part of the agreement was an obligation that the employer provide only positive references, in return my son signed a gagging clause (which doesn't apply to anyone else who knew of the case, like me!), and an agreement to take no subsequent action against the employer. So it can be possible to take on such a case, and win it both financially and in career terms. He was on a minimum wage job but got £7k plus legal costs.
He has never looked back, has since worked for two of the top chefs in the world,
and was last year given a share of a business in return for him taking a job, gained largely on the reputation and status of his previous employers (and his own talent of course).
The lawyer was funded by a trade union (he joined after the dismissal! I had to work hard to provide evidence to the lawyer that there was a better than 50% chance of success before this was funded. It was touch and go but as the evidence took shape the case became unarguable, and the employer ducked out before the tribunal to cut his growing legal costs and the bad publicity that would have ensued.0 -
I've had a bit of a break from the forum, so its a bit sad to come back and hear about peoples' job losses. I consider myself very lucky to be in an effectively secure role, I hope :shock:
Going back to the OP though, what about a trip to China LiT? A bit of cultural excitement and a chance to mix it up with some downtown Beijing SCR'ing?!
Oh and by the way, can you let me know when you are away, so I can switch the surveillance cameras off? 0 -
Its a good news story, but for every one of these, there are cases which failed and which weren't funded by a third party, or cases which were failed/dropped, etc.alfablue wrote:When my son won an unfair dismissal case part of the agreement was an obligation that the employer provide only positive references, in return my son signed a gagging clause (which doesn't apply to anyone else who knew of the case, like me!), and an agreement to take no subsequent action against the employer. So it can be possible to take on such a case, and win it both financially and in career terms. He was on a minimum wage job but got £7k plus legal costs.
He has never looked back, has since worked for two of the top chefs in the world,
and was last year given a share of a business in return for him taking a job, gained largely on the reputation and status of his previous employers (and his own talent of course).
The lawyer was funded by a trade union (he joined after the dismissal! I had to work hard to provide evidence to the lawyer that there was a better than 50% chance of success before this was funded. It was touch and go but as the evidence took shape the case became unarguable, and the employer ducked out before the tribunal to cut his growing legal costs and the bad publicity that would have ensued.
I work in a tiny profession and there is no possibility on earth that an employment matter of this sort would remain in confidential. Hell, the company I worked for last year got taken over and people in Leeds at an unconnected firm knew before we did!
The scenario in this thread is of two major companies only. Accordingly, the rumour mill may be a serious problem.
I'm with Corriander, and possibly the Jedster poker technique - no harm in fishing around, but ultimately, there is a big risk that mud will get slung both ways if taken too far.0 -
Ian.B wrote:don_don wrote:Oh and by the way, can you let me know when you are away, so I can switch the surveillance cameras off?
Your surveillance cameras can't be much good at surveillance if you need to be told when she's away!
Alright smarty-pants
I should have said 'let me know before you get back'. Batteries are expensive goddammit..0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:Always Tyred wrote:
Take her out for a beer and get her talking.lost_in_thought wrote:Oh and the HR girl finishes at the end of this week too.
She's going straight back to Sweden on friday afternoon - I've already offered!
I was Reading through the thread with much interest until there was mention of raw flesh women on distress beer and Sweden after that it all went blurry.
I'd happily offer my extensive negotiation services if I could just remember the topic again.
Phoaw!!!!Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
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Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.0 -
don_don wrote:I've had a bit of a break from the forum, so its a bit sad to come back and hear about peoples' job losses. I consider myself very lucky to be in an effectively secure role, I hope :shock:
Going back to the OP though, what about a trip to China LiT? A bit of cultural excitement and a chance to mix it up with some downtown Beijing SCR'ing?!
Oh and by the way, can you let me know when you are away, so I can switch the surveillance cameras off?
China's an interesting one - I'll definitely look into it! Have to buy a bike out there though, I reckon, because mine will be stolen immediately!0 -
Always Tyred wrote:The scenario in this thread is of two major companies only. Accordingly, the rumour mill may be a serious problem.
I'm with Corriander, and possibly the Jedster poker technique - no harm in fishing around, but ultimately, there is a big risk that mud will get slung both ways if taken too far.
Sorry, I've clearly not explained myself very well...
I've only worked for 2 companies in this industry - commercial real estate - there are thousands of companies all over the world that do what I do. What's more, the companies I've worked for are not big players by any means, and the one I'm currently with has a sketchy reputation to say the least.0 -
Canal boat.
What about a Canal boat.
Oh how I love the slow moving life....Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:Canal boat.
What about a Canal boat.
Oh how I love the slow moving life....
I'm sensing *looks into crystal ball*...
I'm sensing you're dissatisfied with the rat race, with the drudgery of the city grind, the monotony of the nine to five. Hankering after a simpler life, like your forefathers had in your homeland.
Do something about it! 0 -
DDD OTM. I love canal boats too - the week I spent on the Norfolk Broads was one of the best holidays of my life. Can't wait to go back.0
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lost_in_thought wrote:Thanks Fireblade.
And J, I would do that, but have intimated it already and basically been given the brush-off by the group counsel, he has said 'it's not an asset manager that we're recruiting'.
Yet the advert says 'asset manager', as does the job spec, all the corerspondence, and the new guy's contract.
Sorry to hear about your job. Just wondering in this case what the companies thinking is. I once got booted out (of a temp contract so perfectly above board) simply because a new consultant had been appointed to the company and he wanted to bring in a sort of assistant (who happened to be young, female and attractive) and the obvious place to put her was into my position which was being made permanent!
So, I wonder if in this case the newcomer is someone who had been identified before the interviews as the successful candidate.......
All fairly nasty anyway and not that helpful to you. In my case, I got a secondment to another company where I still work and have a very interesting job and very safe (as far as they go) job. I would bear in mind that if you had a successful case and, lets say, came away with even a nice 30k sum, that is actually not much unless the court case has no negative impact on your career. Any delay in getting back to work whilst pursuing the case and any shadow the case casts on your attempts to get a new job will probably more than offset the benefits of the payout. And you spend a long time getting bitter about something you can just put in the past. The only thing that really mattes here is getting your career back on track.
As for biking - next year I will have the option of about 10 weeks paid leave and was mulling over heading across to Scandinavia and cycling down to Italy. Just vague ideas at the moment though.Faster than a tent.......0 -
Have you tried continental drift?DonDaddyD wrote:Canal boat.
What about a Canal boat.
Oh how I love the slow moving life....0
