TDF - I just don't get it...

redddraggon

Mettan wrote:

For trivia - Would it possible for someone like Cancellara on an easy flat stage (with little wind) with say 5-10 km to go to time-trial his way off the front to a stage victory ?? - just wondering - don't know.

Stage 3 in 2007?

MSR in 2008?

EDIT: beaten to it

NitrousOxide wrote:

No doubt it will never happen, but in my mind at least, it would spice up professional grand tour cycling!

Sounds stupid.

iainf72

Kléber wrote:

Much better to shrink the stages in the final week, 160km in a mountain stage is plenty, especially since the action is always concentrated in the final part of the day anyway.

I don't know so much. What Ferrari said keeps playing back in my head. Longer stages towards the end of the race would require a big "tank" - Shorter stages just need a good engine. As he put it, the action in concentrated towards the end of the stage because it's easier to "tweak" that.

Perhaps not all of them but the final week should have a 220km multiple mountains stage IMO.

Mettan

Be good to see a few steep ramps put in - ie + 20 % - might see some attacks off the top of those. Seem to remember a few riders toppled over on 18 % in Italy recently ?? - it was narrow though, and they were fatigued. Mow Cop's "easy/ie. do-able" after 40 miles (at 18mph avg) and contains a 25 % bit (3 mph on that bit :oops: - like a leg press machine at a gym) - would be nice to see the pros flying up a few of these ramps in certain stages.

redddraggon

Mettan wrote:

Seem to remember a few riders toppled over on 18 % in Italy recently ?? - it was narrow though, and they were fatigued.

43rd Tirreno-Adriatico - HC, Italy, March 12-18, 2008??

Mettan

Yes, that was the one Red. To shake things up a bit, would be good to see them do a few of these - need to be quite a bit wider though

frenchfighter

The Vuelta had Angliru which is one of the hardest climbs in the world:

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/200 ... 08_angliru

http://www.velonews.com/article/83082/



Although I would like that as it favours Contador and Schleck, it is almost too much of a bias. Like putting 250km of TT distance in a Tour. A GT winner should be a great climber and a decent time trialler, not just an amazing climber.

Mettan

Looks horendous - even some very short ramps at 20 - 30 % would be a spectacle - at a guess, some riders would find them easier, and some harder, so much so that attacks or breaks could occur at the top of some of these ??? - could be wrong though, but these ramps might shake things up a bit. Just ideas.

teagar

boneyjoe wrote:

Could someone please tell me what exactly is the point of riding 195km, to have a sprint finish over a few hundred metres? And doing this not once or twice, but for about 10 of the 21 stages? Cav is no doubt a brilliant athlete, but surely the race organisers can come up with something just a bit more interesting?

I'd like to see Chris Hoy try and win a flat TDF stage... :?

geoff_ss

A friend of mine, Mick Potts, won the vets road race championship one year by time trialling off the front and no-one could hold his wheel. Of course the teams, such as they were, wouldn't have been so organised to chase as they are in pro racing. The previous year he'd been in a 3 man break IIRC with one guy doing no work because he claimed he was knackered - he won the sprint, so Mick decided he wasn't going to let that happen again

He was a good wheel to follow but he eased up for me.

Geoff

Cumulonimbus

I like the stages where there is a late cat 3/4 climb which means that some of the sprinters will lose touch and have to try and get back to the main group and then to the front. This means that you dont know which sprinters will be in the final sprint and it can encourage some non-sprinters to try and chance their arm. A shame the next 2 stages have the final climb so far from the finish. Hopefully a break will stay away on one of the stages.

teagar

Mettan wrote:

Looks horendous - even some very short ramps at 20 - 30 % would be a spectacle - at a guess, some riders would find them easier, and some harder, so much so that attacks or breaks could occur at the top of some of these ??? - could be wrong though, but these ramps might shake things up a bit. Just ideas.

i think the race you're looking for is the Tour of Flanders.

Or any other Flemish semi-classic.

teulk

What i find quite wierd is that there is always a "break away" group that leads for most of each stage only to be swallowed up right at the end - whats the point, why not just stay with the main group and take it relatively easy and put the extra energy in at the end ?

chriskempton

teulk wrote:

What i find quite wierd is that there is always a "break away" group that leads for most of each stage only to be swallowed up right at the end - whats the point, why not just stay with the main group and take it relatively easy and put the extra energy in at the end ?

Publicity for the sponsors, profile for the riders, cash bonuses along the way, the off chance it might work

Stuey01

re: breakaways - because sometimes it works. We have had a bloke in the yellow jersy for several days, who was was completely unfancied, simply because he was in a break and they made it stick.

bobtbuilder

whats the point, why not just stay with the main group and take it relatively easy and put the extra energy in at the end ?

Early in the race, it's also a great chance for a smaller team to get a stint in the yellow jersey before the main GC contenders become interested.

In the 2004 TdF, Thomas Voeckler got the Maillot Jaune in exactly this manner and held it all the way to stage 14. That's 10 stages for his small French team (Brioche / Bouygues) with the massive exposure of holding the yellow jersey, when teams of this size count it a successful TdF to hold the yellow jersey for even a single stage.

bikerZA

Yep, who had heard of Nocentini before this Tour.

afx237vi

bikerZA wrote:

Yep, who had heard of Nocentini before this Tour.

Pretty much everyone on this forum?

Kléber

Yes, I remember him from 1998 when he was the runner up to Basso in the U-23 World Championships, behind Basso and ahead of Di Luca. In more recent times he's been a strong performer in the early season for example last year in Paris-Nice or in the Tour of California this year when he won a stage.

mididoctors

Kléber wrote:

In more recent times he's been a strong performer in the early season

made a career out of it..

but if you follow cycling for July only you would never know...

Kléber

By the way, I didn't want to come across as snooty by saying I've heard of him before. As far as I'm concerned, if someone gets interested in a unicycle or watches 10 seconds of the Tour de France then that's all good 8)

Smokin Joe

I wonder how many of the posters who come up with It's a Knockout style changes to the Tour format to make it more "exciting" have raced themselves, or even followed the sport?

mididoctors

Kléber wrote:

By the way, I didn't want to come across as snooty by saying I've heard of him before.

well i did and you failed miserably

fast as fupp

boneyjoe wrote:

Could someone please tell me what exactly is the point of riding 195km, to have a sprint finish over a few hundred metres? And doing this not once or twice, but for about 10 of the 21 stages? Cav is no doubt a brilliant athlete, but surely the race organisers can come up with something just a bit more interesting?

i agree- why bother with a 3000km stage race anyway? they could just race up an down the champs elysee a couple of times. it would save a lot of fuss and bother and we could end up with a tdf winner in cavendish :shock:

Pokerface

andrew_s wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

One of the reasons for making the stages shorter was to reduce doping. The riders said it was impossible to compete to even a decent level without artificial aids, which to some extent was true.

Which is of course a load of cobblers.

The stages aren't any worse than the tougher sportives, and loads of undoped ordinary folk do them every year.
What they can't do is complete the stages as fast undoped as they can doped. There would only be any point making the stages easier if this eliminated the advantage that the doped rider had. Unfortunately it doesn't.

Yeah - but the pros ride these "sportives" as you call them significantly faster than your weekend warrior type. And they do 21 of them back to back. Let's see any club rider do THAT!

SteppenHerring

Smokin Joe: Do you not think that Stuart Hall would be an improvement on Phil Ligget?

Smokin Joe

SteppenHerring wrote:

Smokin Joe: Do you not think that Stuart Hall would be an improvement on Phil Ligget?

I don't mind Ligget quite so much, but if Paul Sherwin is the best co-comentator they can find they can't have looked very far.

RichN95.

Smokin Joe wrote:

I wonder how many of the posters who come up with It's a Knockout style changes to the Tour format to make it more "exciting" have raced themselves, or even followed the sport?

I think teams should be able to play a joker on one stage - double green jersey points, double GC time gains (or halved losses) etc.

Capo

Smokin Joe wrote:

I don't mind Ligget quite so much, but if Paul Sherwin is the best co-comentator they can find they can't have looked very far.

Well, as Liggett reminded us today, Sherwen lives in Uganda, so that's pretty far...

Wonder if they have "Ugandan Discussions" when off-mike - one for the older Private Eye readers there...

fast as fupp

Capo wrote:

Smokin Joe wrote:

I don't mind Ligget quite so much, but if Paul Sherwin is the best co-comentator they can find they can't have looked very far.

Well, as Liggett reminded us today, Sherwen lives in Uganda, so that's pretty far...

Wonder if they have "Ugandan Discussions" when off-mike - one for the older Private Eye readers there...

im picturing sherwen as liggets gimp now!

get back in the box gimp!