The Times' Simon Barnes on LA...

Anonymous

Jackhammer111 is Lance Armstrong's mum and I claim my £5.

Kléber

jackhammer111 wrote:

He doesn't want his kids growing up believing all the terrible things on the internet.

What, like the terrible decision to work with Michele Ferrari? This is a comeback, not a remake, there's little Armstrong can do to erase past errors such as his collaboration with convicted-dope-doctor Michele Ferrari.

jackhammer111 - banned

Kléber wrote:

jackhammer111 wrote:

He doesn't want his kids growing up believing all the terrible things on the internet.

What, like the terrible decision to work with Michele Ferrari? This is a comeback, not a remake, there's little Armstrong can do to erase past errors such as his collaboration with convicted-dope-doctor Michele Ferrari.

Was he the only Doctor out there? Where's the outrage about the systematic team doping that has been proven not speculated about?

Ferrari was cleared of all charges.

Lance never applied for the job of "Savior of Cycling" even though his renown has make the sport more popular world wide than any rider in it's history.

iainf72

jackhammer111 wrote:

Ferrari was cleared of all charges.

No he wasn't.

He was found guilty but won an appeal based on the statute of limitations.

FJS

jackhammer111 wrote:

Alberto is going to have to fight for it. He just could be good enough. But he'll probably have to prove it again next year when they are on different teams. Alberto has already proven that the rules of cycling don't mean anything to him and that puts Lance at a disadvantage, this year.

I wanted to stay out of all this, but this really starts to annoy me.
You keep coming up with those 'unwritten rules of cycling' Contador supposedly broke. Please tell me which rule he broke.

The whole idea of cycling ridden with unwritten rules is rubbish anyway. There are no rules, it's all tactics. Maybe apart from the agreement not to attack when a rival has crashed, but the rest all simply comes down to strategy.

On Arcalis race strategy applied to two rivals in one team, and Contador out-smarted Armstrong. Armstrong should have attacked first, before Contador. Like he used to do in his Tour-winning years, attack on the first mountain summit finish. But he didn't, and knew after the finish it was a tactical mistake.

Ah, and your comment of talking about sponsors being considered vulgar in cycling tells me that you haven't been following cyclng very long.

diarmuid

jackhammer111 wrote:

Ferrari was cleared of all charges.

If you were interested in getting to the truth you wouldn't be misrepresenting Ferrari's "innocence"

singlespeedexplosif

It's a great article. Simon Barnes rocks.

disgruntledgoat

jackhammer111 wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

jackhammer111 wrote:

Lance is a good person who's trying to do good works and prove himself yet again so his kids won't have to grow up believing all the trash on cycling forums is true.

Out of all the reasons LA has given for his comeback, that one has got to be the most nonsensical.

Yeah, I can just imagine it... 38 year old man comes out of 4 year retirement, whoops people 10 years his junior. Right, that'll make the sceptics change their mind :roll:

Or does he think winning the TDF again will somehow erase huge chunks of the internets? It's very odd.

What would change your mind?

If he followed through on his promise to make available, publically, the results of an independent testing programme of blood values a la Caitlin.

Of course realising that independent meant "beyond my control"...

Kléber

jackhammer111 wrote:

Kléber wrote:

jackhammer111 wrote:

He doesn't want his kids growing up believing all the terrible things on the internet.

What, like the terrible decision to work with Michele Ferrari? This is a comeback, not a remake, there's little Armstrong can do to erase past errors such as his collaboration with convicted-dope-doctor Michele Ferrari.

Was he the only Doctor out there? Where's the outrage about the systematic team doping that has been proven not speculated about?

Where? You weren't on this forum but revelations about Vienna, Vino/Astana, Puerto etc have generated plenty of comment on here, feel free to go back and look for yourself.

jackhammer111 wrote:

Ferrari was cleared of all charges.

What's your view on his role, do you think he was offering training plans to Gewiss, to Rominger, Salvoldelli, Landis, Chiapucci, Vinokourov and Armstrong?

SpaceJunk

Moray Gub wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

[
So far the Tour has been rather soft. He's won 7 Tours so he knows how to ride a bike,

I havent won any Tours yet but i also know how to ride a bike.

I like your optimism there Moray.. yet

dougzz

jackhammer111 wrote:

Alberto is going to have to fight for it. He just could be good enough. But he'll probably have to prove it again next year when they are on different teams. Alberto has already proven that the rules of cycling don't mean anything to him and that puts Lance at a disadvantage, this year.

Oh, and if he mentioned his charity at every interview you'd just claim he was being phony anyway.

It's a pity LA never paid more attention to the written rules of cycling, particularly those related to use of banned substances. LA's problem is AC is younger and better. As for paying attention to the 'unwritten' rules of cycling, when did LA ever do that that, how pretty and vindictive was it when he chased Simeoni down in 2004 because of his testimony against Dr Evil, when was that done before, where's that in the code of cycling? LA dominated US Postal for all those years, and he can't handle any loss of control. He throws in references to Levi and Kloeden to deflect from the fact that he's having a giant internal tantrum that AC won't ride to LA's benefit.

As for charity, that stopped being important when he needed to put all his effort into damage control with AC proving much much tougher than he expected.

mrushton

adeyboy wrote:

It's still fairly amazing, surely you can admit that?
For a returning 38 year old to be in the top 3 has to be 'remarkable' in the literal sense of the word. the clearest measure of his performance is to look at who's behind him.

Sad tho' that the others seem to be making excuses already (sastre, evans etc) about Astana being the strongest team etc and that the younger cyclists can't seem to be able to compete with LA.

antfly

Ruari wrote:

aurelio wrote:

The only real thing of note in that article is the way it propogates the old 'The French' hate Armstrong myth. Quote"

"The French have always hated Armstrong for being so un-French and so fast. Some have hinted that his cancer treatment somehow gave him an advantage and many are desperate to prove that he (like so many others) did it all on drugs.".

I was watching a French satellite channel last week in a hotel room and there was a French writer plugging his new book about Armstrong that was saying exactly that. The whole purpose of the book was to discredit him {and to make money for the author}. Unfortunately I can`t remember what it was called.

robthehungrymonkey

Every thread. the same.

Gazzaputt

I do enjoy these Lance threads. The same conspiracy theories rolled every time by the same crowd. One mention of Lance in a thread and they jump on it. A little sad? Live and let live? Murders attract less veracious accusations!

deejay

FJS wrote:

I wanted to stay out of all this, but this really starts to annoy me.

On Arcalis race strategy applied to two rivals in one team, and Contador out-smarted Armstrong. Armstrong should have attacked first, before Contador. Like he used to do in his Tour-winning years, attack on the first mountain summit finish. But he didn't, and knew after the finish it was a tactical mistake.

Ah, and your comment of talking about sponsors being considered vulgar in cycling tells me that you haven't been following cyclng very long.

Very Annoying, watching Mature Cyclists having to Justify a Sport to young Innocent "new to the sport" beginners who were too young to know the Sport 15 years ago. Go on surprise me ?????

I won't be writing to Simon Barnes because he is not far off the truth anyway and if it was Slanderous then the All Powerfull Livestrong Org would have him and the Paper in Court.

If armstrong had attacked first then he would have been caught very easily just like Evans and the "Plan" was to ride the mountain at a comfotable tempo for armstrong and not show his weaknesses.
Well done bertie for a tiny little bit of action that other teams should have done Half way up the Mountain and after all it was a Mountain Top Finish.

reddraggon wrote:

I think you'll find his high position is down to his experience of keeping with the Columbia boys on stage 3.

George Hincapie (Columbia) a very good Friend and former long time Team Mate is said to have tipped him off.
Funny how the other Astana riders are from the Loyal armstrong part of the team.

dougzz wrote:

We wouldn't want to confuse a cancer charity with a "for profit company" would we ?

Do you mean the one that collects the Appearance and Interview money for his own pocket ??

Gassaputt wrote:

Murderers attract less veracious accusations !

Only because Liars should be taken to court and this is the other modern choice to knock them down within the realms of the "Above Defamatory Sticky"

iainf72

jackhammer111 wrote:

dougzz wrote:

Is that livestrong.com or livestrong.org

We wouldn't want to confuse a cancer charity with a for profit company would we?

You think Lance gets rich off of that site? He doesn't even own it.

I think you'll find he owns a significantstake in it.

So he does make money off it. Advertisers pay to advertise (the media kit is quite interesting), the more hits the more $'s. If people are going to .com rather than .org it's pushing those numbers up. Ok, it's a bit cheeky recycling the name but hey ho, that's capitalism for you.

What baffles me somewhat is why he's so happy to have his name and Livestrong associated with Astana. Astana is basically Nazarbayev's promotion vehicle. Livestrong.org is in the business of caring for people etc, yet they happy to be associated with the team. It can't be argued they're seperate because the team is bank rolled by the state and Lance benefits from that. All the riders supporting him are paid for by someone else, same for the infrastructure.

I pointed out to him via twitter when he posted about human rights that none of this was new and surely he must've known before he associated his name and foundation with it. I didn't get an answer but a) I am on the s..tlist and b) he must get about a squillion messages.

dougzz

deejay wrote:

dougzz wrote:

We wouldn't want to confuse a cancer charity with a "for profit company" would we ?

Do you mean the one that collects the Appearance and Interview money for his own pocket ??

I was pointing out (as have many) the confusion between .org and .com. I have no problem with people making money, but I think it's pushing the boundaries to create a for profit company alongside a charitable one, and then profit from the confusion between the two.

deejay

I didn't need an answer as you made an excellent point.

I don't think he can trade mark his name but as you say in the various confusion titles he has a Multi-Million $ Business there.

Homer J

If i was him i'd be milking it why i can. He's nobodys fool.

jackhammer111 - banned

iainf72 wrote:

jackhammer111 wrote:

dougzz wrote:

Is that livestrong.com or livestrong.org

We wouldn't want to confuse a cancer charity with a for profit company would we?

You think Lance gets rich off of that site? He doesn't even own it.

I think you'll find he owns a significantstake in it.

So he does make money off it. Advertisers pay to advertise (the media kit is quite interesting), the more hits the more $'s. If people are going to .com rather than .org it's pushing those numbers up. Ok, it's a bit cheeky recycling the name but hey ho, that's capitalism for you.

What baffles me somewhat is why he's so happy to have his name and Livestrong associated with Astana. Astana is basically Nazarbayev's promotion vehicle. Livestrong.org is in the business of caring for people etc, yet they happy to be associated with the team. It can't be argued they're seperate because the team is bank rolled by the state and Lance benefits from that. All the riders supporting him are paid for by someone else, same for the infrastructure.

I pointed out to him via twitter when he posted about human rights that none of this was new and surely he must've known before he associated his name and foundation with it. I didn't get an answer but a) I am on the s..tlist and b) he must get about a squillion messages.

I find it odd that people don't see that we in the west broke the Soviet Union and yet they complain about the mess. We are responsible for the manner in which they failed. Now life is very hard in the entire region. Their economies are shattered. The power vacuum was filled by gangsters and warlords. All the jumping up and down about human rights isn't going to fix that.

Lance's benefits are indirect and he's not taking any of their money and he'll be gone after this year.

iainf72

jackhammer111 wrote:

Lance's benefits are indirect and he's not taking any of their money and he'll be gone after this year.

Well, I'd argue the benefits are greater than any salary they'd pay him. The infrastructure required for a team at this level ain't cheap.

Would you agree that aligning himself with Astana might have not been the brightest move? Also, do you accept now that livestrong.com is just Lance's commerical arm?

antfly

jackhammer111 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

jackhammer111 wrote:

dougzz wrote:

Is that livestrong.com or livestrong.org

We wouldn't want to confuse a cancer charity with a for profit company would we?

You think Lance gets rich off of that site? He doesn't even own it.

I think you'll find he owns a significantstake in it.

So he does make money off it. Advertisers pay to advertise (the media kit is quite interesting), the more hits the more $'s. If people are going to .com rather than .org it's pushing those numbers up. Ok, it's a bit cheeky recycling the name but hey ho, that's capitalism for you.

What baffles me somewhat is why he's so happy to have his name and Livestrong associated with Astana. Astana is basically Nazarbayev's promotion vehicle. Livestrong.org is in the business of caring for people etc, yet they happy to be associated with the team. It can't be argued they're seperate because the team is bank rolled by the state and Lance benefits from that. All the riders supporting him are paid for by someone else, same for the infrastructure.

I pointed out to him via twitter when he posted about human rights that none of this was new and surely he must've known before he associated his name and foundation with it. I didn't get an answer but a) I am on the s..tlist and b) he must get about a squillion messages.

I find it odd that people don't see that we in the west broke the Soviet Union and yet they complain about the mess. We are responsible for the manner in which they failed. Now life is very hard in the entire region. Their economies are shattered. The power vacuum was filled by gangsters and warlords. All the jumping up and down about human rights isn't going to fix that.

Lance's benefits are indirect and he's not taking any of their money and he'll be gone after this year.

WTF has this got to do with anything? Do you mourn the break-up of the Soviet Union?

jackhammer111 - banned

Kléber wrote:

jackhammer111 wrote:

Kléber wrote:

jackhammer111 wrote:

He doesn't want his kids growing up believing all the terrible things on the internet.

What, like the terrible decision to work with Michele Ferrari? This is a comeback, not a remake, there's little Armstrong can do to erase past errors such as his collaboration with convicted-dope-doctor Michele Ferrari.

Was he the only Doctor out there? Where's the outrage about the systematic team doping that has been proven not speculated about?

Where? You weren't on this forum but revelations about Vienna, Vino/Astana, Puerto etc have generated plenty of comment on here, feel free to go back and look for yourself.

jackhammer111 wrote:

Ferrari was cleared of all charges.

What's your view on his role, do you think he was offering training plans to Gewiss, to Rominger, Salvoldelli, Landis, Chiapucci, Vinokourov and Armstrong?

Where's means where is, not where was.

After todays stage Lance kept riding. He didn't stop. Kept riding right out of town.. Today's workout wasn't hard enough. Game on.

Justpush

Barnes is a prize two hat with plenty of form for writing c rap about Sports which he knows FA about.

RichN95.

Justpush wrote:

Barnes is a prize two hat with plenty of form for writing c rap about Sports which he knows FA about.

As a Times reader, I totally agree. He's also very, very deeply in love with Roger Federer.

Earthbound

Ruari wrote:

He is now racing in his favourite race

I always thought it was his ONLY race. It's practically the only he ever bothered to grace with his presence. Giro, Vuelta, GP de l'Overture de Marsellaise, Tour of Lombardy anyone?