The Times' Simon Barnes on LA...
The Chief sports writer of The Times has in today's Sport Comment slated LA in an article titled 'Survivor shows you should never return'.
In his his article he claims that only Muhammed Ali could make a comeback work for him.
He also goes on to say, I qoute, 'Armstrong was supposed to be trying to win the Tour de France for the eighth time to raise cancer awareness...But he has hardly spoken a word about cancer since his comeback got serious. He is all wrapped up in the racing.'
Unbelievable. What professional sportsman or woman making a concerted comeback would not be wrapped up in what they are doing? Only Muhammed Ali can make a comeback work? LA is currently third - pretty amazing if you take his age and time away from the sport into consideration. His form has only been getting better since he started his comeback to pro cycling.
He is now racing in his favourite race, one which he will always hold dear to himself as he's made it own.
So he's a little pre-occupied with racing to give cancer awareness it's recognition. Heck, if he wasn't concentrating on riding you'd think it odd, and how few people would take him seriously then. Wait till he's won the 2009 Tour, then see how much recognition cancer awareness gets.
If you haven't read the article in The Times, please do, and please follow my lead by writing to Simon Barnes to ask if not for an apology, for a re-think on his skewed perception of LA.
In his his article he claims that only Muhammed Ali could make a comeback work for him.
He also goes on to say, I qoute, 'Armstrong was supposed to be trying to win the Tour de France for the eighth time to raise cancer awareness...But he has hardly spoken a word about cancer since his comeback got serious. He is all wrapped up in the racing.'
Unbelievable. What professional sportsman or woman making a concerted comeback would not be wrapped up in what they are doing? Only Muhammed Ali can make a comeback work? LA is currently third - pretty amazing if you take his age and time away from the sport into consideration. His form has only been getting better since he started his comeback to pro cycling.
He is now racing in his favourite race, one which he will always hold dear to himself as he's made it own.
So he's a little pre-occupied with racing to give cancer awareness it's recognition. Heck, if he wasn't concentrating on riding you'd think it odd, and how few people would take him seriously then. Wait till he's won the 2009 Tour, then see how much recognition cancer awareness gets.
If you haven't read the article in The Times, please do, and please follow my lead by writing to Simon Barnes to ask if not for an apology, for a re-think on his skewed perception of LA.
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Comments
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I agree with you, basically. I think he's damned if he does (mention cancer during the tour) and damned if he doesn't.
WHat he is actually doing is somewhere in between - ie, his blogs/twitters/vids whatever are always 'on message' - but you're right, when he's cycling I thin kit's fair that he concentrates on cycling. Hi profile is huge again, because he is riding.0 -
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It's still fairly amazing, surely you can admit that?
For a returning 38 year old to be in the top 3 has to be 'remarkable' in the literal sense of the word. the clearest measure of his performance is to look at who's behind him.0 -
I won't be writing to Barnes though. He's entitled to his opinion - I don't read The Times anyway...0
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adeyboy wrote:It's still fairly amazing, surely you can admit that?
For a returning 38 year old to be in the top 3 has to be 'remarkable' in the literal sense of the word. the clearest measure is who's behind him.
It's not amazing at all. He hasn't done anything yet. So far the Tour has been rather soft. He's won 7 Tours so he knows how to ride a bike, if he couldn't come back and keep up for the first week, it'd be embarrassing for him.
It'd be remarkable if he's still in the top 3, in Paris.0 -
redddraggon wrote:adeyboy wrote:It's still fairly amazing, surely you can admit that?
For a returning 38 year old to be in the top 3 has to be 'remarkable' in the literal sense of the word. the clearest measure is who's behind him.
It's not amazing at all. He hasn't done anything yet. So far the Tour has been rather soft. He's won 7 Tours so he knows how to ride a bike, if he couldn't come back and keep up for the first week, it'd be embarrassing for him.
It'd be remarkable if he's still in the top 3, in Paris.
OK, maybe you're more difficult to impress than me!0 -
redddraggon wrote:adeyboy wrote:It's still fairly amazing, surely you can admit that?
For a returning 38 year old to be in the top 3 has to be 'remarkable' in the literal sense of the word. the clearest measure is who's behind him.
It's not amazing at all. He hasn't done anything yet. So far the Tour has been rather soft. He's won 7 Tours so he knows how to ride a bike, if he couldn't come back and keep up for the first week, it'd be embarrassing for him.
It'd be remarkable if he's still in the top 3, in Paris.
Come on, you've got to give him some credit! I see what you're saying about the lack of real tests of his individual form so far, but the fact is that he's 3rd and well ahead of lots of the big names- you can't think too much of any of them if there's no credit for being ahead of them?0 -
MrChuck wrote:Come on, you've got to give him some credit! I see what you're saying about the lack of real tests of his individual form so far, but the fact is that he's 3rd and well ahead of lots of the big names- you can't think too much of any of them if there's no credit for being ahead of them?
I think you'll find his high position is largely down to his strong team in the TTT and his experience in keeping with Columbia boys on Stage 3, rather than anything else.0 -
redddraggon wrote:MrChuck wrote:Come on, you've got to give him some credit! I see what you're saying about the lack of real tests of his individual form so far, but the fact is that he's 3rd and well ahead of lots of the big names- you can't think too much of any of them if there's no credit for being ahead of them?
I think you'll find his high position is largely down to his strong team in the TTT and his experience in keeping with Columbia boys on Stage 3, rather than anything else.
Hmm, just looking at your Twitter; I think we can discount the possibilty of a balanced opinion on Armstrong from you
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redddraggon wrote:MrChuck wrote:Come on, you've got to give him some credit! I see what you're saying about the lack of real tests of his individual form so far, but the fact is that he's 3rd and well ahead of lots of the big names- you can't think too much of any of them if there's no credit for being ahead of them?
I think you'll find his high position is largely down to his strong team in the TTT and his experience in keeping with Columbia boys on Stage 3, rather than anything else.
Yes, I can see that, but he's there and about almost 100% of the other people in the race aren't. Are Nocentini and Contador the only people doing OK?0 -
adeyboy wrote:Hmm, just looking at your Twitter; I think we can discount the possibilty of a balanced opinion on Armstrong from you
I expected LA to be up near the top at the end of the first week - it's hardly long odds expecting a 7 time Tour winner with a strong team to still be near the top after a relatively easy first week.
Something expected is hardly amazing
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MrChuck wrote:Yes, I can see that, but he's there and about almost 100% of the other people in the race aren't. Are Nocentini and Contador the only people doing OK?
Too many other GC contenders lost a lot of time in the TTT. And there's been no real climbing yet.
Some of the other contenders could easily make up some time in the mountains yet.0 -
redddraggon wrote:adeyboy wrote:Hmm, just looking at your Twitter; I think we can discount the possibilty of a balanced opinion on Armstrong from you
I expected LA to be up near the top at the end of the first week - it's hardly long odds expecting a 7 time Tour winner with a strong team to still be near the top after a relatively easy first week.
Something expected is hardly amazing
Yeeesss, I think we've established that you don't think it's amazing whilst others do.0 -
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redddraggon wrote:Yes, but you haven't explained why it's amazing...
Because unlike you, I didn't expect him to be 3rd after a week of (maybe) the toughest cycle race of the year with a field which is made up of the greatest cyclist around at the mo.0 -
redddraggon wrote:[
So far the Tour has been rather soft. He's won 7 Tours so he knows how to ride a bike,
I havent won any Tours yet but i also know how to ride a bike.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
The only real thing of note in that article is the way it propogates the old 'The French' hate Armstrong myth. Quote"
"The French have always hated Armstrong for being so un-French and so fast. Some have hinted that his cancer treatment somehow gave him an advantage and many are desperate to prove that he (like so many others) did it all on drugs."
On the other hand an article in Sunday's Observer said that in a recent poll 72% of French people said they were happy to see Armstrong in the Tour once more. Even the writer of that article mange to put an anti-French spin on the findings... :roll:0 -
I agree with you if you mean that the rest of the article is worthless.aurelio wrote:The only real thing of note in that article is the way it propogates the old 'The French' hate Armstrong myth. Quote"
"The French have always hated Armstrong for being so un-French and so fast. Some have hinted that his cancer treatment somehow gave him an advantage and many are desperate to prove that he (like so many others) did it all on drugs."
On the other hand an article in Sunday's Observer said that in a recent poll 72% of French people said they were happy to see Armstrong in the Tour once more. Even the writer of that article mange to put an anti-French spin on the findings... :roll:FCN 10 -
Have to agree with Red, the fact that he made the Columbia split and TTT account for the position. Other than the first TT he's not had to make any significant individual effort. The strength of the team helping position is reflected by Leipheimer and Kloden still being well up there too.
In fact, looking at it that way, given that half the Astana team are in the top 10 it would have been more amazing if LA wasn't...
The Pyrenees were really quite soft stages. Yesterday's Tourmalet climb was a waste because it was too early in the stage so the favourites group took it easy, there was no attacking each other and made for good tv moments for the breakaways.
Contador has so far showed he can go away when he wants to. Armstrong hasn't.
He can rest up now during the next few flat stages but the reality is that the test is in the Alps.
If he's still in 3rd after the Alps after a few mountain top finishes that will be closer to amazing..
if he gets to the top of Ventoux still in 3rd overall, well fair play, that will be amazing and he'll deserve the credit he'll undoubtedly get. But at the moment its all a bit premature0 -
redddraggon wrote:Ruari wrote:LA is currently third - pretty amazing if you take his age and time away from the sport into consideration.
It's not amazing at all. This TdF hasn't really seen any proper racing yet.
He's done well, looks strong, but your point is taken.
We'll see in the Alps. He seems confident. His doubters should be more than a little concerned. 0 -
Ruari wrote:The Chief sports writer of The Times has in today's Sport Comment slated LA in an article titled 'Survivor shows you should never return'.
In his his article he claims that only Muhammed Ali could make a comeback work for him.
He also goes on to say, I qoute, 'Armstrong was supposed to be trying to win the Tour de France for the eighth time to raise cancer awareness...But he has hardly spoken a word about cancer since his comeback got serious. He is all wrapped up in the racing.'
Unbelievable. What professional sportsman or woman making a concerted comeback would not be wrapped up in what they are doing? Only Muhammed Ali can make a comeback work? LA is currently third - pretty amazing if you take his age and time away from the sport into consideration. His form has only been getting better since he started his comeback to pro cycling.
He is now racing in his favourite race, one which he will always hold dear to himself as he's made it own.
So he's a little pre-occupied with racing to give cancer awareness it's recognition. Heck, if he wasn't concentrating on riding you'd think it odd, and how few people would take him seriously then. Wait till he's won the 2009 Tour, then see how much recognition cancer awareness gets.
If you haven't read the article in The Times, please do, and please follow my lead by writing to Simon Barnes to ask if not for an apology, for a re-think on his skewed perception of LA.
Cycling isn't like Amercian NASCAR where the drivers spend the first 2 minutes of every interview talking about their sponsors. In cycling it would be considered vulgar.
Lance makes a dedication on livestrong.com every day.
I can't find his email address.0 -
Is that livestrong.com or livestrong.org
We wouldn't want to confuse a cancer charity with a for profit company would we?0 -
jackhammer111 wrote:Cycling isn't like Amercian NASCAR where the drivers spend the first 2 minutes of every interview talking about their sponsors. In cycling it would be considered vulgar.
Lance makes a dedication on livestrong.com every day.
I can't find his email address.
What could you possibly find vulgar about Sir Lance of Austin? His tireless charidy work and all round good guy persona would never be tasteless no matter what aspect of himself he was promoting.
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jackhammer111 wrote:Cycling isn't like Amercian NASCAR where the drivers spend the first 2 minutes of every interview talking about their sponsors. In cycling it would be considered vulgar.
Lance makes a dedication on livestrong.com every day.
I can't find his email address.
Have you never seen the "caravan" that preceeds the cyclists? Some would consider that very vulgar! I don't think anyone would really begrudge Lancey if he metioned his cancer charity every now and again...0 -
dougzz wrote:Is that livestrong.com or livestrong.org
We wouldn't want to confuse a cancer charity with a for profit company would we?
You think Lance gets rich off of that site? He doesn't even own it.
There a lot of great free information on that site. Advertising for an energy supplement and 4 dollar ipod apps aren't making anyone rich.0 -
dougzz wrote:jackhammer111 wrote:Cycling isn't like Amercian NASCAR where the drivers spend the first 2 minutes of every interview talking about their sponsors. In cycling it would be considered vulgar.
Lance makes a dedication on livestrong.com every day.
I can't find his email address.
What could you possibly find vulgar about Sir Lance of Austin? His tireless charidy work and all round good guy persona would never be tasteless no matter what aspect of himself he was promoting.
:roll:
You haters are such a bizzare tiny minority inside this little self congradulating world of supposed inside information on a sport you evidenlty view as dirty.
Lance is a good person who's trying to do good works and prove himself yet again so his kids won't have to grow up believing all the trash on cycling forums is true.0 -
jackhammer111 wrote:
Lance is a good person who's trying to do good works and prove himself yet again so his kids won't have to grow up believing all the trash on cycling forums is true.
Are you doing very effective satire?
You must be, surely? Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
jackhammer111 wrote:Lance is a good person who's trying to do good works and prove himself yet again so his kids won't have to grow up believing all the trash on cycling forums is true.
Out of all the reasons LA has given for his comeback, that one has got to be the most nonsensical.
Yeah, I can just imagine it... 38 year old man comes out of 4 year retirement, whoops people 10 years his junior. Right, that'll make the sceptics change their mind :roll:
Or does he think winning the TDF again will somehow erase huge chunks of the internets? It's very odd.0 -
afx237vi wrote:jackhammer111 wrote:Lance is a good person who's trying to do good works and prove himself yet again so his kids won't have to grow up believing all the trash on cycling forums is true.
Out of all the reasons LA has given for his comeback, that one has got to be the most nonsensical.
Yeah, I can just imagine it... 38 year old man comes out of 4 year retirement, whoops people 10 years his junior. Right, that'll make the sceptics change their mind :roll:
Or does he think winning the TDF again will somehow erase huge chunks of the internets? It's very odd.
His kids weren't around when he did his run. They''re around for this one. He really did say it. He doesn't want his kids growing up believing all the terrible things on the internet. He wants them to see first hand that he can do it under whatever rules they throw at him.
He knows it won't change the minds of some that will never believe any result no matter what, but they'll know first hand what nonsense most of it is.
Alberto is going to have to fight for it. He just could be good enough. But he'll probably have to prove it again next year when they are on different teams. Alberto has already proven that the rules of cycling don't mean anything to him and that puts Lance at a disadvantage, this year.
Oh, and if he mentioned his charity at every interview you'd just claim he was being phony anyway.0 -
afx237vi wrote:jackhammer111 wrote:Lance is a good person who's trying to do good works and prove himself yet again so his kids won't have to grow up believing all the trash on cycling forums is true.
Out of all the reasons LA has given for his comeback, that one has got to be the most nonsensical.
Yeah, I can just imagine it... 38 year old man comes out of 4 year retirement, whoops people 10 years his junior. Right, that'll make the sceptics change their mind :roll:
Or does he think winning the TDF again will somehow erase huge chunks of the internets? It's very odd.
What would change your mind?0
