Hydration strategy

Edwin

I know there's been a few threads about cramp recently, but my legs keep blowing at the end of races, and I've been wondering if dehydration is a factor. I take two 750ml bottles of quite strong energy drink (homemade stuff comprising 50/50 fruit juice and water, with maltodextrin, a pinch of salt and squash to flavour), and also consume two or three gels as well.
I know I'm dehydrated afterwards, as I've weighed myself and always seem to be a good few pounds lighter after a race, so it occurred to me yesterday I may be getting too much carbohydrate and not enough water. I also felt thirsty for most of the race, and energy drink didn't help.

I'd like to be a bit more scientific about this, and try to work out how many calories I'll need, and how much water. I realise fluid loss varies depending on temperature and the individual, but can anyone help concerning the right ratio? I've found figures for carbohydrate requirement between 60 up to 90 grams per hour. How much water needs to be consumed to prevent all those carbs drawing water from the gut? Also, given that bikes only have two bottle cages, and most races don't have a feed zone, how do other people cope? I did think about shoving a few extra bidons in my jersey, but I don't think I've seen anyone do that in an amateur race...

Cheers

Bhima

To break down carbohydrate and use it as energy, I believe you need 6g of water for every 1g of carbohydrate. Make sure you drink in the hour before you start too, otherwise you'll be constantly at a deficit when riding if you're already dehydrated.

sheffsimon

What length of races are we talking about?

Edwin

I'm a 3rd cat, so normally about 60 miles for most races, I think yesterday was nearer 70 and quite a hot day as well.
I know a lot of it is down to fitness and also tactics (i.e. not going too hard early on) but I'm interested to know if this could be a factor.

sheffsimon

I've ridden a fair few hot weather races where bottles have been handed up from road side by helpers (my dad in my case when I was a junior many years ago!), so I guess thats one way of sorting it.

Maybe its your home made energy drink is causing problems, might be worth getting some sachets of Hi 5 or similar, just to see if it makes a difference.

Also, thought cramps were caused by a lack of salts or potassium, or is that old hat now? Maybe your home made stuff isnt providing this?

Since Bhima has already posted on this thread I'm reluctant say that bananas are supposed to be good for stopping cramps!

Edwin

I've been trying to resist mentioning bananas!

I actually use Lo-Salt, which contains potassium as well as sodium, so it's probably not that.
I think the problem is I'm just mixing my drink up too strong. When I get time I'll do some more googling and try to work out how much of everything I can absorb, how many calories/carbs the juice contains already, and how much maltodextrin to add, then actually weight it out. If you look at most of the commercial energy drink powders they're something like 98% maltodextrin anyway, the rest will just be flavouring and electrolytes.
I'm also going to take an extra water bottle and shove it in my top somewhere.

We'll see if it makes any difference on Sunday, although I still need to sort out my suicidal tactic of attacking with about 50 miles left. That could have something to do with it

PinkPedal

Do you generally stay well hydrated throughout the week before racing and drink plenty of water? If not then this might help so that you're not effectively starting off dehydrated.

Edwin

I generally drink plenty of water during the week, but on the morning of a race I usually have a whole pot of coffee, which is a diuretic and therefore probably not a good idea.
I'll try just drinking water or squash, and getting the much needed caffeine from sports drink instead.
Not easy having to get up at 6 or 7am on a Sunday and not have coffee!

PinkPedal

Could be the coffee that is dehydrating you on the morning and also giving you a coffee-dry mouth for your races? A whole pot is a fair amount of coffee, especialy if you don't normally drink that much! (I'm just jealous because I get coffee jitters so can only drink de-caff!)

I got the ZipVit trial box the other day and it contained a "caffeine gel" that apparently contains as much caffeine as 2.5 cans Redbull :shock: Something like this might give you your fix?!

Edwin

Yep, I've actually got some pure caffeine powder that I bought from a supplement website, I put a tiny bit in the drink for longer races - the only problem is it tastes disgusting. Caffeine gels are OK but I do think they are overpriced, as caffeine itself is dirt cheap and you pay quite a premium over the usual gels. Red Bull doesn't actually contain that much by the way, I think it's 40mg which is about the same as a cup of tea.

You're right about the dry mouth effect from coffee though, I'll definitely cut that out and see how it goes.

eh

Personally I think you are more than enough drink for a 60 mile race (possibly too much). I mean 1.5 litres is plenty for around 2.5hrs racing, so I'm surprised you are saying you get dehydrated. Are you actually drinking all of it or is there some left at the end of the race?

I'd start by lowering the amount of coffee you drink before hand to one cup and replace the rest with water. Also try using just water for a race and eat to get the carbs, as some energy drinks can leave a horrid feeling in the mouth especially at high concentrations.

simon_says

Hello everyone,

I've been reading this board on and off for about a month and decided to graduate from voyeur to participant.

I don't mean to change the subject but one thing I wanted to mention regarding hydration is that my body water percentage is in the high 60's which is to be expected since my body fat is around 5%. I'm not a racer as of yet but 6 days a week I'll cycle (gym - tragic I know), row (gym) and run out in the streets, complimented by walking for around 2 hours a day 7 days a week. I find on a full training day I require around 4 or more litres of water in order to insure complete hydration just for my workout window and that's not including water sourced from fruit etc. The point I'm getting round to here is that your hydration strategy for homeostasis generally and training specifically will depend on your body water percentage, your mass and in many peoples case the convenience of going to the toilet based on what you're doing at the time. Do I have to use water-retaining substances to slow my fluid transit time etc?

Sorry to go slightly off-topic there!!!

Proteins are of course highly taxing when it comes to fluid requirements but I'm sure you're on top of that.

andrewjoseph

From what I understand, some a percentage of carbs are useful in helping hydration.

Recent research has shown that proteins are also useful in hydration and that an energy drink with a mix of carbs and proteins is currently the best way to help stay fuelled up and hydrated.

Several companies are producing protein/carb mixes, and if made up properly ensure consistent reproduction of the energy drink. Something which is not so easy to produce when doing home-made mixes.

yes, home made is cheaper,

yes, high5, sis etc are overpriced for what they are.

but, the branded product will (usually) have better quality control and have consistent properties.

for ease of use and peach of mind, I now use branded products.

mister biscuit

Top tip: Try some elete and use it instead of salt - it's got all the electrolytes you need, and easier to dissolve to boot. - it's very good VFM, and might make your electrolye intake more consistent. 1 bottle will last ages.

from a different angle, the SIS Go & Smart1 gels are isotonic, and work without water - try them toward the end of the race?

mister biscuit

Top tip: Try some elete and use it instead of salt - it's got all the electrolytes you need, and easier to dissolve to boot. - it's very good VFM, and might make your electrolye intake more consistent. 1 bottle will last ages.

from a different angle, the SIS Go & Smart1 gels are isotonic, and work without water - try them toward the end of the race?

Edwin

Just to follow up, I raced yesterday with two 750ml bottles of plain water, and three energy gels. I limited myself to one cup of coffee and drank a litre of squash on the way to the race.
Whilst my leg muscles nearly went towards the end, I managed to stay in the main bunch and launch a bit of a sprint at the end, so it was definitely better (obviously I didn't win but there was an 11 man break up the road with a 40 second lead). Although we only did 65 miles, it was a 1/2/3 race so I expected to struggle with the pace, which averaged 25.8 mph on a windy day- ouch! The thing with the muscles packing in is more likely to be fatigue than dehydration to be quite honest, I certainly didn't feel like I'd run out of 'energy' as such, just difficulty breathing, and quite a lot of pain which is expected.

Maybe I was over-estimating the amount of calories I needed. I think I was a bit scared of bonking with just plain water in the bottles, but it was actually a lot more refreshing. Kind of begs the question (for relatively short races anyway) what's the point of sports drink if you use gels as well?

dennisn

Edwin wrote:

Maybe I was over-estimating the amount of calories I needed. I think I was a bit scared of bonking with just plain water in the bottles, but it was actually a lot more refreshing. Kind of begs the question (for relatively short races anyway) what's the point of sports drink if you use gels as well?

You bring up a good point. How much "stuff" do you need to put in your body? Me, if I use to much of the drink, gels, or bars, I start to get lots of "gas"(the wrong kind).
Personally I think that these kind of things are way over hyped. The drink advertisements are so prevalent here in the states that people believe you can't walk around the block without them(so to speak).

chrisw12

Edwin wrote:

Just to follow up, I raced yesterday with two 750ml bottles of plain water, and three energy gels. I limited myself to one cup of coffee and drank a litre of squash on the way to the race.
Whilst my leg muscles nearly went towards the end, I managed to stay in the main bunch and launch a bit of a sprint at the end, so it was definitely better (obviously I didn't win but there was an 11 man break up the road with a 40 second lead). Although we only did 65 miles, it was a 1/2/3 race so I expected to struggle with the pace, which averaged 25.8 mph on a windy day- ouch! The thing with the muscles packing in is more likely to be fatigue than dehydration to be quite honest, I certainly didn't feel like I'd run out of 'energy' as such, just difficulty breathing, and quite a lot of pain which is expected.

Maybe I was over-estimating the amount of calories I needed. I think I was a bit scared of bonking with just plain water in the bottles, but it was actually a lot more refreshing. Kind of begs the question (for relatively short races anyway) what's the point of sports drink if you use gels as well?

Begs the question what's the use of sports drinks and energy gels for any short event.

Out of interest, does anyone know if the top African runners take in anything during marathons?