Are radios really a problem?

donrhummy
donrhummy Posts: 2,329
edited July 2009 in Pro race
This tour has been MUCh more exciting than I think any of us would have predicted with even attacks and gaps occurring on stages that normally are tame...and yet all this happened with race radios in everyone's ears.

So are they really the problem? Or was it something else?
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Comments

  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    Well, Brunyeel is going to hand in a petition signed by 14 of the 20 teams against the banning of earpieces on a couple of stages.

    http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves20 ... lette.html
  • fletch8928
    fletch8928 Posts: 794
    It is a good watch this year. Radios are probably just helping the breakaways but then why havn't the pack chased earlier? I think its all to do with Lance being in the mix and nobody quite sure what to do.

    The no radio stage will show if they have helped or hindererd imo. Hope to see it pan out as the first week has.

    The windy stage was a shocker and as the commentators said there could be a split how come the riders wern't more alert to it?
    fly like a mouse, run like a cushion be the small bookcase!
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,821
    Someone (think it was Roche) said the other day that the breakaways are getting smarter.

    They save some energy before the end of the day then give it full gas when the peloton think they've got it calculated right.

    Not sure about radios, the story Dan Lloyd told about the Horilllo crash was a very compelling argument for them.
  • avoidingmyphd
    avoidingmyphd Posts: 1,154
    in principle, the banning of radios is an interesting idea. but i think that a one off experiment will be too brief to tell us anything interesting.
  • El Conejo Ingles
    El Conejo Ingles Posts: 155
    will they ban tv's in directeurs cars next? This is probably the biggest source of information of the overall race. There is little to stop the directeurs delivering a bidon and a post it note saying "GO FAST" now or in the past. Technology is here we should not ignore it just make sure it doesn't be the thing.

    Bring back one piece Dolans and Superman.

    Vive la Polemica
    Self confessed King of The Mole Hill
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    TakeTheHighRoad wrote:
    Someone (think it was Roche) said the other day that the breakaways are getting smarter.

    They save some energy before the end of the day then give it full gas when the peloton think they've got it calculated right.

    Not sure about radios, the story Dan Lloyd told about the Horilllo crash was a very compelling argument for them.

    Magnus Backstedt said the same thing on Eurosport (about stage 3). They don't push to get 12-15 minutes anymore - they know that they can take it easy at about 5 minutes, knowing that the peloton will be happy with that. Thus saving something - quite smart really.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    why not just have some radioless stages and mix it up a bit?

    you have crits ,TTT and ITT why not radioless stages.. just requires a different sort of racing for a day
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    The petition has already been slapped down by the organisers:

    "In keeping with a decision by the Executive Committee of the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI), the Commissaires’ Board would like to confirm that the 10th stage from Limoges to Issoudun on July 14 will be held without the use of radio communication.

    "The Executive Committee of the Union Cycliste Internationale made this decision on June 19, 2009 and it will be upheld for the 10th and 13th stages of the race. We will do everything in our power to facilitate the jobs of team managers."

    I want to know which 6 teams chose not to sign it.
  • sing_for_absolution
    sing_for_absolution Posts: 1,908
    afx237vi wrote:

    I want to know which 6 teams chose not to sign it.

    FDJ will probably be one of them. Madiot's always been a vocal opponent of radios.
  • IanLD
    IanLD Posts: 423
    Seems a good idea to me. Already carried out in France and nobody is cutting the official race radio so there isn't a safety issue.

    Well the driving of some of the DS may give some cause for concern as they try to get alongside their riders! :D
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,726
    donrhummy wrote:
    This tour has been MUCh more exciting than I think any of us would have predicted with even attacks and gaps occurring on stages that normally are tame...and yet all this happened with race radios in everyone's ears.
    So are they really the problem? Or was it something else?

    Which side is your version on?
    I must be watching a different race.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    FDJ and Cofidis are the two teams in favour of the ban. The latest is that the 14 teams aren't bothering with diplomacy, they've said "we'll turn up with race radios, so fine us". I think it's a shame, an experiment could be interesting. The French national championships had radios banned and apparently it made for a lively race.
    RichN95 wrote:
    TakeTheHighRoad wrote:
    Someone (think it was Roche) said the other day that the breakaways are getting smarter.

    They save some energy before the end of the day then give it full gas when the peloton think they've got it calculated right.
    Magnus Backstedt said the same thing on Eurosport (about stage 3). They don't push to get 12-15 minutes anymore - they know that they can take it easy at about 5 minutes, knowing that the peloton will be happy with that. Thus saving something - quite smart really.
    This has been the case forever, in the game of "cat and mouse" (© P Liggett) it is as much about the mouse playing dead as it is about the cat chasing.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,726
    In that case, hit them with a hefty time penalty. They'll soon toe the line.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • IanLD
    IanLD Posts: 423
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    In that case, hit them with a hefty time penalty. They'll soon toe the line.

    Totally agree - fine wouldn't deter them, but a significant time penalty would make them think. Can see a rider's revolt coming on though :(

    Hopefully the ASO and UCI will stand firm and not buckle.
  • Homer J
    Homer J Posts: 920
    As a spectator i'm not really bothered. I'm glued to the tv, race radio or no race radio.
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    Pat McQuaid stated recently that the UCI fully support this experiment and are eager to move away from the use of radios as it stands - they expect to be running cat 2 races without radios next season.

    Prudhomme has already made it clear that he is 'suprised' that it's taken the DSes all this time to get upset since they've known about the stages for ages. Hopefully, unlike Zomegnan, he won't fall over himself backwards to accomodate Bruyneel/Armstrong - what can't they do the job without radios? Is Armstrong incapable of thinking for himself?

    BS hefty time penalty - what a great idea - hope Prudhomme's reading this. That or just tell them they can't start the stage.
  • woody-som
    woody-som Posts: 1,001
    The no radio is a good idea, it would make the riders think for themselves, instead of just being told what to do the team director.
  • cedargreen
    cedargreen Posts: 189
    I think banning the radios for a couple of stages is a worthwhile experiment- the danger being that dominant teams like Astana will try to 'prove' that radios don't make a difference by not riding more competitively. I thought Bjarne Riis' comments about not wearing helmets for 2 stages or cutting brake cables to make the race more interesting were pretty facile. I say get rid of them- or keep them just for safety info. But what do I know.


    ' you can't have everything- you'd have nowhere to put it all'.
  • edhornby
    edhornby Posts: 1,780
    this smacks of the protests in the giro, they've known about this for ages, why are they up in arms now... ?
    "I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
    --Jens Voight
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    edited July 2009
    15 teams have signed.

    The teams that haven't are: COF / BBOX / FDJ / AGRT and GRM

    Garmin will decide after having a meeting today.

    If like you say Kléber these teams do turn up with radios then I wont be happy as how much more undermined can the authorities get...
    Contador is the Greatest
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    I saw the clip of the press conferences on the ITV4 highlights yesterday where Riis and Voight were suggesting it was madness, essentially on safety grounds. But nobody is suggesting NO RACE RADIO to warn of hazards, road conditions, etc. Paul Sherwen then spoke to Imlach and used up as much time as possible by saying "In the sport of professional cycling" and spouting the safety line and that the French didn't want radios 'cos they are crap.

    If the radios are for safety what is the issue with that safety information being relayed by Race Radio rather than the teams repeating Race Radio to them?
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    http://www.velonews.com/article/92450
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    donrhummy wrote:
    This tour has been MUCh more exciting than I think any of us would have predicted with even attacks and gaps occurring on stages that normally are tame...and yet all this happened with race radios in everyone's ears.

    So are they really the problem? Or was it something else?

    Has it really been so exciting - the GC men have done very little - whenever one has tried to attack the rest haven't responded. Far from more exciting than normal I'd say it's been a very uneventful race so far. Bring on the ban on radios.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • MrChuck
    MrChuck Posts: 1,663
    Tom Butcher wrote:
    donrhummy wrote:
    This tour has been MUCh more exciting than I think any of us would have predicted with even attacks and gaps occurring on stages that normally are tame...and yet all this happened with race radios in everyone's ears.

    So are they really the problem? Or was it something else?

    Has it really been so exciting - the GC men have done very little - whenever one has tried to attack the rest haven't responded. Far from more exciting than normal I'd say it's been a very uneventful race so far. Bring on the ban on radios.

    Is it the lack of mountain top finishes that's made it uneventful so far? With 50km left after the summit has it negated the advantages to be gained by having a go on the climbs?
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    There are 3 summit finishes which is the same as in 2007 and 2006. 2008 had 4.

    This Tour has the least amount of ITT kms too at 55, compared to 82, 117 and 116 for 08, 07 and 06.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    For me what we need is more unpredictability - I wouldn't say mountain top finishes are that unpredictable - decisive yes but normally in the direction you'd think they are going to be. Race radio to give riders information - hazards ahead, break got 4 minutes, etc - that is fine. When it's DSs making most of the decisions for the riders then it's gone too far.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:
    I saw the clip of the press conferences on the ITV4 highlights yesterday where Riis and Voight were suggesting it was madness, essentially on safety grounds. But nobody is suggesting NO RACE RADIO to warn of hazards, road conditions, etc. Paul Sherwen then spoke to Imlach and used up as much time as possible by saying "In the sport of professional cycling" and spouting the safety line and that the French didn't want radios 'cos they are crap.

    If the radios are for safety what is the issue with that safety information being relayed by Race Radio rather than the teams repeating Race Radio to them?

    Sherwen started off by spouting the safety line, then Imlach said the team race organisers will still have radio contact to warn of hazards, then Sherwen spent the next 30 seconds completely contradicting what he had just said!
  • Mombee
    Mombee Posts: 170
    If you ban the radio from the team car to the riders, then you allow the up and coming riders to show more spontaeity. This Tour seems to be fixated on keeping it close until the last climb up Ventoux, by that I mean that Astana seem to have control of the peloton, so no-one seems to want to stick their heads over the parapets and tear off up the road. Where were Euskatel over the past two days... they could have scored some valuable points on home territory, but they didn't seem keen as a team to take on the bunch. I digress... giving the control to the peloton (with no support from the team cars), allows individuals and small groups to take advantage of that reluctance to race ahead.

    One point though... the two downhill finishes could have been horrendously dangerous if the bunch had decided to chase down a breakaway... whether that's right or wrong, I'm sure someone can comment... but radios from the riders OUT to the team cars and medics would be a very sensible precaution.

    Cheers.
    http://www.mombee.com ... more than just bikes.
    Cannondale CAADX Disc
  • NWLondoner
    NWLondoner Posts: 2,047
    The safety issue is somewhat negated by the fact they will have a neutral radio feed.

    However this is a team sport and like all most team sports the manager etc. should be able to be in contact with his team.

    Just look at yesterday with Andy Schleck and his puncture. Would you really want someone to miss the chance of winning just because he could not communicate to his team that he is having a problem???

    I think it is like putting the genie back into the bottle. We have the technology to use and i cannot see them getting rid of them.

    If the UCI want to make it more exciting then maybe look into time bonuses or even penalties or similar.
  • woody-som
    woody-som Posts: 1,001
    Why the fuss over having radios, see how much more interesting it is without, look at what happened on the Tour of Britain series earlier this year, each person had to think for themselves and learn to work as a team on there own. No safety issue in those races without a radio.

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