ITV4 vs Eurosport Commentary for TdF
Must say 2 extremes.... Ligget and Sherwen always describe whatever is on screen at the time and Harmon and Kelly meander on whatever subject they want to talk about, irrespective of what is happening on screen. Who knows why Harmon waffled on about the 'most stylish', 'least stylish rider' yesterday..... Love Kelly, he says some informative and intelligent things, but won't break his verbage when something dramatic is happening on screen.......
Like the guys at Eurosport, but they need to 'big up' the race when it gets to the closing stages....
Like the guys at Eurosport, but they need to 'big up' the race when it gets to the closing stages....
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i love ligget and sherwen for all their quirkinesses.... as a few others have pointed out - try waffling on for as long as they do all day and not say a few dumb things....
In my opinion Eurosport is the "educated" (i.e. you know how the race / sport works already) commentary of choice, but I totally agree with your point, L&S make the closing Ks feel much more exciting than Harman/Duffield/Kelly.....
I think they are all excellent though... i couldnt do it for 5 minutes let alone 5 hours....0 -
I disagree with your comments on Harman and Kelly. Yesterday, for instance, they were going on about the most and least stylish rider, at least Harman was, but for the most part, this was while the stage was at it's boring, appearing to be a predicatable "small breakaways stays away for most of the stage, but gets reeled in in the last 50 kms" kind of stage.
When Columbia split the field, they were concentrating on what was going on, who was in the right/wrong side of the split, and which teams were doing was to keep/close the gap.
You're 100% right about Kelly's insightful interjections, and, as he's going on, he's not as scared to put his neck on the line, and predict things that make sense, even if they don't come to fruition, Yesterday, he explained why he thought the final split in the peleton would come back together, with very good reasoning, even though he was wrong, and put his hands up.
Ligget and Sherwen just repeat each other, and ask each other questions with the answeres embedded in the question, so they just never disagree. And I turned off ITV4 last year when Ligget started talking about "Denny" Menchov. Who is he to rechristen a rider?0 -
Some what agree that you can not keep up the excitement for a 3hr+ broadcast... but L and S ramp up the excitement towards the end of the stage and Harmon and Kelly are more laid back... and can be talking about something totally unrelated to what i am seeing on screen (although maybe interesting in it's self).
I just think that the primary job of a commentator is to describe or explian to the viewer what they are seeing on screen. They should get excited in the final kilometers... if not in themselves, then for get excited for the viewers...0 -
I always assumed that denny menchov was how the russians pronounce dennis am I wrong?0
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juggler wrote:Some what agree that you can not keep up the excitement for a 3hr+ broadcast... but L and S ramp up the excitement towards the end of the stage and Harmon and Kelly are more laid back... and can be talking about something totally unrelated to what i am seeing on screen (although maybe interesting in it's self).
I just think that the primary job of a commentator is to describe or explian to the viewer what they are seeing on screen. They should get excited in the final kilometers... if not in themselves, then for get excited for the viewers...
I disagree. That's what I have eyes for. Plus it would be really boring.0 -
Harmon and Kelly do very well as including the audience in their broadcast.
The stylish riders was in response to an e-mail, i think it's a good thing.
However they also (most of the time) know when to stop it. I think with 35 to go he said "we'll stop that now". They concentrated on the race after that, it's great commentary.
Phil and Paul (from itv highlights) seems to be more "you guys probally watch cycling once a year".
So for me, Harmon and Kelly anyday. Not so much Carlton, he seems to be doing nothing now, last year he did stats, and stats have just vanished. Where's Mike Smith, i prefered him.0 -
afx237vi wrote:juggler wrote:Some what agree that you can not keep up the excitement for a 3hr+ broadcast... but L and S ramp up the excitement towards the end of the stage and Harmon and Kelly are more laid back... and can be talking about something totally unrelated to what i am seeing on screen (although maybe interesting in it's self).
I just think that the primary job of a commentator is to describe or explian to the viewer what they are seeing on screen. They should get excited in the final kilometers... if not in themselves, then for get excited for the viewers...
I disagree. That's what I have eyes for. Plus it would be really boring.
not all the time... but my eyes can see the screen... hopefully a commentator can elucidate those pictures and provide something additional to the viewer. If you take your comment at face value then i presume you enjoy sports on TV with the mute button pressed as anyone'e commentary (even a former tour de france rider) could not add anything to what your eye could see...0 -
doddy178 wrote:So for me, Harmon and Kelly anyday. Not so much Carlton, he seems to be doing nothing now, last year he did stats, and stats have just vanished. Where's Mike Smith, i prefered him.
I think Carlton must narrate the pre-race show for International Eurosport, and translate the interviews and so on. I agree he's pretty pointless if he's not doing any stats this year. Now he just butts in every now and again for some inane factoid. The spiel about the ambergris was pure Partidge.
In previous years we also had a 15 minute mid-morning show where they'd show the riders signing on and the depart. That seems to have disappeared, which is a shame.
Oh, I also thought Dan Lloyd did a good job for the first two days. I think it's better with 3 commentators rather than 2. Wonder where Emma is this year?0 -
I have only started watching cycling in the last three months, and I have learned far more from Dave and Sean that the ITV mob by a mile.
All the ITV lot seem to do is get team names wrong, get over excited and babble on about what I can see with my own eyes.
Day 2 on Eurosport with Dan Lloyd guesting was especically good, giving an insight fom an old timer (Kelly) and a current Pro, and I found it fascinating.
Tbh, even Kirby is fitting in quite well with the odd contribution....there is however no doubt that he shouldn't ever be allowed to commentate on any sport as the main man. I have played water polo for 25yrs to international level, and to hear this guy commentate on polo defies belief.0 -
The program KM0 last year was good with the interviews right up to the depart moment which was good. No idea what emma's got up to, but i do miss the stats. Always quite useful.afx237vi wrote:doddy178 wrote:So for me, Harmon and Kelly anyday. Not so much Carlton, he seems to be doing nothing now, last year he did stats, and stats have just vanished. Where's Mike Smith, i prefered him.
I think Carlton must narrate the pre-race show for International Eurosport, and translate the interviews and so on. I agree he's pretty pointless if he's not doing any stats this year. Now he just butts in every now and again for some inane factoid. The spiel about the ambergris was pure Partidge.
In previous years we also had a 15 minute mid-morning show where they'd show the riders signing on and the depart. That seems to have disappeared, which is a shame.
Oh, I also thought Dan Lloyd did a good job for the first two days. I think it's better with 3 commentators rather than 2. Wonder where Emma is this year?
Also, Carlton did the team presentation, why? Harmon was there, he twittered about it. Seems a waste of effort to me.0 -
juggler wrote:not all the time... but my eyes can see the screen... hopefully a commentator can elucidate those pictures and provide something additional to the viewer. If you take your comment at face value then i presume you enjoy sports on TV with the mute button pressed as anyone'e commentary (even a former tour de france rider) could not add anything to what your eye could see...
Not at all, as I've said many times before, I enjoy the commentary of Harmon and Kelly a great deal. Kelly in particular is brilliant at giving tactical insights and spots things that I would never spot in a million years.
I think the most important thing is balance. IMO, Harmon gets a good balance of being able to talk about the race at the important moments, but also realises when nothing is happening and is able to go off on (usually fairly interesting) tangents.
I don't think any commentator needs to talk about the race all the time, especially when nothing is happening. Fake excitement just sounds contrived. If a race is boring, you shouldn't be scared of admitting it.
On the other hand, you could go to the Duffieldesque extreme of completely ignoring the race and end up talking about cheese when the race is blowing to bits. That is the worst and is (IMO) unforgivable.
But Harmon and Kelly get the right balance. Yesterday they were talking about stylish riders and Camargue bullfighting (which I found really interesting!) during the piano piano bits, but knuckled down and concentrated on the racing when it all kicked off.0 -
The funniest thing was listening to Paul Shewen during the 2nd stage. He kept on saying things during the second stage that were complete rubbish - one example being how Saxo Bank were chasing because Cancellara was alone at the front so had no back-up if he had a problem. If you listen when he does this Liggett just follows up by explaining what is actually happening and carries on. Sherwen is an idiot.
Eurosport every day for me. The ITV highlights are perfect for when my brother comes home from work, but Sean and Dave are far superior in my opinion everytime.0 -
+1 for Eurosport, although I do like the more detailed magaziney articles on ITV (which they seem to have stopped this year?).
As for getting excited at the end of the stage, both sets of commentators do (although you can barely tell from Kelly's tone of voice), but Harmon at least tends to get things right. I think Liggett called Cav "Menchov" in the final sprint yesterday...0 -
Heard the ITV4 commentators for the first time today.
Jeez.... they love hyping everything up, don't they?! :shock:
It was a totally different style. I prefer the Eurosport guys as they tend to discuss things at length a bit more, especially tactics. I found that the ITV4 guys were explaining everything, even simple things, probably aiming to cater for new-comers to the sport, who are watching for the first time.0 -
Sorry if I am stating a commonly known fact but with Ligget and Sherwen am I right in thinking that the commentary they supply for ITV 4 is actually the commentary primarily for the USA channel Versus?
Sometimes I swear you can here Ligget going off and doing a voice over to another audience whilst we have Sherwen nattering along for us.
In relation to who is better ITV4 or Eurosport I have to say just the fact that Eurosport has less adverts wins my viewing given the choice. Commentary wise I think they are both entertaining in their own ways, even if they do annoyingly both get the odd fact and name wrong at times.0 -
ITV4 live via the red button has no adverts whatsoever . It's far superior commentary to Eurosport where Sean says "certaintly" twice in every sentence. How anyone can listen to him without screaming I don't know!0
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Sadly I have no red button on my Freeview box
, I watch Eurosport online via the player. That would be great non stop coverage! 0 -
I watched all of the TdF on CH4 until they stopped showing it so associated Liggott/ Sherwin with the TdF. This year I've been watching Eurosport and am impressed at how they can commentate on a 5 hour ride and keep it interesting.
I'm just glad it's not the guy who did the Eurosport commentary on the Dauphine Libere. I pressed the mute button a lot.0 -
I really dislike Ligget and Sherwin's commentary, you can certainly say what you like about Kelly's abuse of the English language, but I certainly find such phrases as Leakygas, Denny Menchov and the suchlike miles more annoying. Add that to the fact that Ligget and Sherwin find the need to hype everything up to the nth degree, and the fact they often seem to get the riders names wrong, and I'll take mad mooing Harmon and Sean certainly Kelly's commentary any day of the week.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0
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joosed wrote:ITV4 live via the red button has no adverts whatsoever . It's far superior commentary to Eurosport where Sean says "certainly" twice in every sentence. How anyone can listen to him without screaming I don't know!
You have got to be kidding me!! Far superior!!??!! You gotta be deaf right? Phil and Sherwin have had the same script for the last 20 years. Spewing the same old tired sayings. It's commentary for beginners, and Sherwin blatantly lies about whats happening on the road. Although i'm sure he actually believes himself. Its pretty amazing considering he was a rider.
I thought they were great until i discovered Eurosport. i have to say that Harmon is fantastic. He always manages to keep things interesting and his passion comes through the screen. Liggo and Sherwin's commentary just sounds tired.
Kelly is a legend, i love his dry humour, and some of his insights are amazing to listen to. I especially love it when i he describes how tough it was back in the day, as though the riders today are bunch of jessies
'Certaintly' has become the Kelly trademark!
SEAN - Probably the best KELLY in the world..... CERTAINTLY!
The other day on itv4 the liggo and Paul were really struggling to keep you entertained. Sherwin was constantly repeating himself over and and over again. I think Harmon and Kelly manage these situations expertly. Yesterday's 'non' stage was a perfect example.
I think people should lay off Carlton. He's quite obviously ES's 'can do' man. And as long as he sticks to the facts and figures he's ok.
I just wish ES would poach Gary 'do you like my hair' Imlach.
Harmon? Kelly? Chapeau!!
p.s. Liggo is still a legend 0 -
You're all spelling "CERTAINTLY" wrong. 0
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Certaintly, umm you know well yes certaintly that is the case that I do think ITV4 has the better commentators. Most certaintly.....and no adverts too. 0
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I don't like ligget in his psycopants.0
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It's an approximation of the French pronunciation of Denis (one n, as in Menchov)dave milne wrote:I always assumed that denny menchov was how the russians pronounce dennis am I wrong?
I don't know how the Russians pronounce Denis, but "Denny" is no more likely to be wrong than the English "Dennis" (two ns, as in the Menace).
I expect he's so used to the French pronunciation of his name by now that he uses it himself.0 -
'Certaintly' has become the Kelly trademark!
As well as "t-u-r-d" in the place of third. Thats a another trademark.
But to answer the question, im Australian and when i only used to follow cycling once a year in July i thought Phil and Paul were great. But now i cant stand them. So i turn on the SBS coverage (which has Phil and Paul) turn it down and turn on the Eurosport audio player. And if they are out of synce by a fair way, i just find an online feed and watch that. Sherwen and Liggett are the last guys i turn to.
(For some reason it keeps turning the word t-u-r-d to junk, word filter i guess)Do you have any Therapeutic Use Exemptions?
No. Never have.
Never? What about the cortisone?
Well, obviously there was the cortisone0 -
I loved Harmon mentioning the 'third half' yesterday.
I only watch the eurosport broadcast.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
I'm similar to a few people on here, I've grown up with Phil/Paul on Ch4/ITV4 - so one gets used to their 'style'. However, last year Eurosport was available and watched that, and was immediately hooked. The coverage of the Alpe D' Huez day I really enjoyed. Harmon and Kelly are 'shertainly' entertaining. Saying that, I would say that Phil/Paul are still one of the better commentators on sport on TV, especially for the 'non-cycling' viewer.All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."0
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Is the ITV4 coverage available on the freeview red button, or only sky?
thanks
PBo0 -
I watched some highlights os stage 2 on ITV 4 the other day. I p*ssed myself laughing when they said the road was straight from now on. They were riding around a sodding lake in between a few twisting valleys at the time :shock:
Eurosport EVERY TIME. I love the way you can email them and they will read out your email. I made the mistake once of asking why we cannot see riders speeds , etc. Harmon (to his despair) did read my email out on air 8)
Sean Kelly while his knowledge his brilliant he can get on my t*ts.0
