*Spoliers* Tour de France talk *Spoilers*

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  • Coriander
    Coriander Posts: 1,326
    A 25km/h head wind.

    Golly, it's just like SE London.
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    Ooo, Nibali's causing trouble for Astana. :lol:
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • Coriander
    Coriander Posts: 1,326
    Cool, ain't it? :wink:

    When will Andy realise that Frank is shot and just unable to go with him?
  • Coriander
    Coriander Posts: 1,326
    Chances of Wiggins getting those 16 seconds???

    LA looks stronger than I like.
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    Wiggins. Is. Awesome. 8) Seriously gutsy ride. LA had team help, Wiggo didn't.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • Coriander
    Coriander Posts: 1,326
    Yep. It's making me a bit teary.
  • iain_j
    iain_j Posts: 1,941
    I was nursing a hangover whilst watching that today. Wiggo's superb ride made me forget all about it. Each time he went off the back my heart sank but he just gritted his teeth and pulled himself back up. Chapeau, Brad.
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    What ifs....


    Stage 3: Wiggins lost 41 seconds to Armstrong when Columbia used the cross winds to crack the peloton.

    Yesterday Wiggins lost 4 seconds to Armstrong on the line, due to a break in the pelotonas it crossed the line.

    Tomorrow, Wiggins will finish in 4th.

    37 seconds behind Armstrong.

    As cj said, you make your own luck sometimes in pro cycling.
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • Capo
    Capo Posts: 439
    +1

    Fantastic ride by Wiggo, first couple of times he got dropped and looked like he was gone he'd somehow pop up again at the back of the GC contender group, last km was agonising, I really thought he'd gone. Frank Schleck had nothing in the tank at the end though, if he'd managed to get across the line with his brother, I think he's have nicked 4th.
    Can\'t drive, won\'t drive
  • iain_j
    iain_j Posts: 1,941
    Greg66 wrote:
    What ifs....


    Stage 3: Wiggins lost 41 seconds to Armstrong when Columbia used the cross winds to crack the peloton.

    Yesterday Wiggins lost 4 seconds to Armstrong on the line, due to a break in the pelotonas it crossed the line.

    Tomorrow, Wiggins will finish in 4th.

    37 seconds behind Armstrong.

    As cj said, you make your own luck sometimes in pro cycling.

    Agonizing isn't it :(

    But it's only the 2nd time he's finished the TdF so let's put it down to experience - he'll know next year. Bring it on :twisted:
  • petejuk
    petejuk Posts: 235
    Chapeau Wiggo. Fantastic ride. Brilliant finale to the alps. There are loads of what ifs to this end but if anyone had said Bradley Wiggins would finish fourth, I would have dismissed it as ludicrous. I hope he gets good support next year whatever team he's on.
  • shoulder_of_orion
    shoulder_of_orion Posts: 529
    Greg66 wrote:
    What ifs....


    Stage 3: Wiggins lost 41 seconds to Armstrong when Columbia used the cross winds to crack the peloton.

    Yesterday Wiggins lost 4 seconds to Armstrong on the line, due to a break in the pelotonas it crossed the line.

    Tomorrow, Wiggins will finish in 4th.

    37 seconds behind Armstrong.

    As cj said, you make your own luck sometimes in pro cycling.

    You forgot another split in the peloton that cost Bradders 15 sec or so.

    I agree that he needs to get smarter, but what a tour from him. In future years he could have a serious tilt at yellow if he can improve his TT, stick with guys like the Shleck's and Nibali in the mountains and just get his tactic right on the flat stages. Being in the right team will be critical with Sky and Garmin both being viable options and whichever team he rides with he will surely be the leader in 2010. He will have to hope that Contador either tests positives or succumbs to Ulrich like indulgences.
  • iain_j
    iain_j Posts: 1,941
    petejuk wrote:
    Chapeau Wiggo. Fantastic ride. Brilliant finale to the alps. There are loads of what ifs to this end but if anyone had said Bradley Wiggins would finish fourth, I would have dismissed it as ludicrous. I hope he gets good support next year whatever team he's on.

    When he said he was aiming for top 20, people dismissed it as ludicrous :D
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Shoulder of Lamb wrote:
    Greg66 wrote:
    What ifs....


    Stage 3: Wiggins lost 41 seconds to Armstrong when Columbia used the cross winds to crack the peloton.

    Yesterday Wiggins lost 4 seconds to Armstrong on the line, due to a break in the pelotonas it crossed the line.

    Tomorrow, Wiggins will finish in 4th.

    37 seconds behind Armstrong.

    As cj said, you make your own luck sometimes in pro cycling.

    You forgot another split in the peloton that cost Bradders 15 sec or so.
    The commisaires reversed that decision.
    Shoulder of Lamb wrote:
    I agree that he needs to get smarter, but what a tour from him. In future years he could have a serious tilt at yellow if he can improve his TT, stick with guys like the Shleck's and Nibali in the mountains and just get his tactic right on the flat stages. Being in the right team will be critical with Sky and Garmin both being viable options and whichever team he rides with he will surely be the leader in 2010. He will have to hope that Contador either tests positives or succumbs to Ulrich like indulgences.
    What a ride today and throughout the tour by Twiggo. Fantastic stuff.

    For the TdF next year at Garmin they should have a fully fit Vande Velde, Dan Martin and Wiggins. That's a strong GC team. This year they were up there in the TTT; Wiggo was high up in the ITTs and now has the experience of riding a grand tour for the GC. Can't wait till next year. Only 366 days to go.
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • petejuk
    petejuk Posts: 235
    Only 366 days to go

    technically only 343 days to the start of the tour on 3rd July 2010- a 9 km Prologue in the streets of Rotterdam.
    That'll be Wiggo in yellow from day one.
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    petejuk wrote:
    Only 366 days to go

    technically only 343 days to the start of the tour on 3rd July 2010- a 9 km Prologue in the streets of Rotterdam.
    That'll be Wiggo in yellow from day one.
    Fair point. I didn't think that one through: damn fence post errors. I will now ritually fall on my sword ;)

    9km in rotterdam, i'm presuming that's a pan-flat course. Go Wiggo
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    If it's a flat course for next year's Prologue, there's the small obstacle of Cancellara between him and 1st place. :)

    Garmin have done brilliantly. Two riders in the top 10, one of them not fully fit. They broke themselves for Wiggo, and Wiggo repaid them by hanging on for dear life when he lost touch with the lead group, both today and couple of days ago.

    My own view is that Wiggins's performance surpasses that of LA's. The latter has participated in, what, 11 or 12 TdFs? He's also been supported by the strongest team in this year's race too, with team mates around him pretty much right to the top of each mountain; today, he had the best climber in the world helping him. Wiggo didn't, and yet he was the man the Schlecks were trying to break because they knew the yellow jersey had gone. That's a huge compliment. The man's a legend. 8)
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • petejuk
    petejuk Posts: 235
    My own view is that Wiggins's performance surpasses that of LA's. The latter has participated in, what, 11 or 12 TdFs? He's also been supported by the strongest team in this year's race too, with team mates around him pretty much right to the top of each mountain; today, he had the best climber in the world helping him. Wiggo didn't, and yet he was the man the Schlecks were trying to break because they knew the yellow jersey had gone. That's a huge compliment. The man's a legend.

    +1
    well said.
  • iain_j
    iain_j Posts: 1,941
    On Wiggo's twitter:
    Shed a tear today for Tom, I had a little extra strength today from somewhere. Had a photo of the man on my toptube

    Chapeau.
  • fatgrimpeur
    fatgrimpeur Posts: 55
    Been one of the best tours in years, great performances but I'm going to say it.....I think Mr Contador might be receiving some help. Climbers don't beat one of the best TTr's of the last 15 odd years. Maybe I'm wrong but something smells.
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    edited August 2009
    Interesting article: http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/07 ... lysis.html
    Shows where the TT was won: on the climb

    Edit: FWIW Bertie beat Cancellara in the final ITT in the 2007 tour as well.
    Edit2: Wind got up for GC riders: tailwind at start, block headwind to finish after the climb
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • Eau Rouge
    Eau Rouge Posts: 1,118
    JonGinge wrote:
    Interesting article: http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/07 ... lysis.html
    Shows where the TT was won: on the climb

    Edit: FWIW Bertie beat Cancellara in the final ITT in the 2007 tour as well.

    Bertie has been doing very well in TT's for most of his career.
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Eau Rouge wrote:
    JonGinge wrote:
    Interesting article: http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/07 ... lysis.html
    Shows where the TT was won: on the climb

    Edit: FWIW Bertie beat Cancellara in the final ITT in the 2007 tour as well.

    Bertie has been doing very well in TT's for most of his career.
    I know. A lot of people put him in the 'just a climber' box, though, and then are surprised (and make insinuations) when he does a good ITT
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    On Contador and he's TT ability.

    Not that I know much but for some years I always thought there are many ways to make a bike go fast and often uses a combination of the persons strength weight and gearing.

    Contador may be slight of frame but that lack of weight may actually make moving up to the bigger gears, pushing them and staying at that speed far easier than people realise. Where he might struggle is getting the bike up to speed - from a big gear - as he may lack the immediate strength of some of the bigger riders. Once at speed and spinning its all about stamina, and rhythm to keep the cranks turning...

    Go on some one correct me or +1 me....


    I thought Armstrong did brilliantly to stay with and just hound Frank Shelck into submission.

    Part of me thought that Andy needed to ride balls out like his life depended on it becuase he's other tactic (bring Frank in) simply wasn't working.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • bigmat
    bigmat Posts: 5,134
    DonDaddyD wrote:

    Part of me thought that Andy needed to ride balls out like his life depended on it becuase he's other tactic (bring Frank in) simply wasn't working.

    I'll +1 you on that bit, Frank didn't have the legs on the day. Think the wind probably made attacking a lot harder than usual though and as Contador was hanging back to help Lance, the best two were never going to ride away. All played into Wiggo's hands, so no bad thing.

    On the Contador tt point, I think what you are saying comes down to the power to weight argument. Which is always important, but more so going uphill. What I think people found astonishing about his ride was how much time he put into the likes of Wiggins, Kloeden, Armstrong, Millar and Cancellara in a very short space of time on the flat.

    He has always been a decent time trialler, but then he started his career under Saiz before switching to Bruyneel.
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  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,392
    The riders are linked by radio to their team managers, are their 'vital signs' heart rates etc being monitored also and could this play a part in tactical decisions :?:

    Presumably team tactics are discussed in detal prior to stages starting various scenarios analysed. Who, for want of a better phrase, 'calls the plays' on the road when something unexpected happens :?:

    What is the 'passport' in reference to drugs :?:

    Can anyone point me to a simple explanation of the 'science bits', things like an explanation of power outputs :?:


    Sorry for the exam style posting :D
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  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    MatHammond wrote:

    On the Contador tt point, I think what you are saying comes down to the power to weight argument. Which is always important, but more so going uphill. What I think people found astonishing about his ride was how much time he put into the likes of Wiggins, Kloeden, Armstrong, Millar and Cancellara in a very short space of time on the flat.

    I'm just thinking back to what I know of athletics.

    Everything I've read about Contador and suspicions assumes that his TT ability relates to sprinting/accelerating on a flat.

    Sprinting = big muscular guy, reason: fast twitch muscles/accelerate to very fasts speeds. This is true for cyclists i.e Cavendish, Hoy etc.

    However, in a TT all Contador has to do is get his bike to go fast and keep it there. He doesn't need to accelerate at Cavendish, Wiggins etc levels all he needs to do is get to that speed and sustain it. I wouldn't be surprised if his initial acceleration is slower than the others but over the course of a TT his overall average is higher because he is better at maintaining speed over a course.

    If in a sprinting contest he out sprinted/accelerated the riders you mentioned and other dedicated sprinters, given his frame, then I'd be crying steroids and EPO from the roof tops.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Awesome, awesome awesome finish.

    Everything I enjoyed as a child watching Le Tour!

    I may have moaned about the 2nd week and still wish there was more of a duel for the yellow as oppose to formality. But I feel this was about other riders, Wiggins, Cavendish even Armstrong.

    Chapeau!
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,064
    Don't forget Renshaw :wink:
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
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  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,392
    I think the way Hincapie grabbed control of the lead out back off Garmin will be my moment of the tour.


    Awesome
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!

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