*Spoliers* Tour de France talk *Spoilers*

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  • Capo
    Capo Posts: 439
    Cav and Thor raced out of peloton for the first intermediate sprint today - guess who won - so it looks like battle for green is well and truly joined now and that Cav wants to wear it on the podium in Paris.

    This should spice up some of the stages a bit - having said that, a breakaway's gone down the road so no chance for another intermediate today.

    Interesting that last night Cav said he was only interested now in the Paris stage - pull the other one!

    Unless someone manages to launch a decent attack in the three climbs between 62km and 40km to go, I'd expect to see the boys in white and yellow get the train going on the run in to Vittel.
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  • Deadeye Duck
    Deadeye Duck Posts: 419
    JonGinge wrote:
    That's got to be pretty much the first intermediate sprint this year where it's been 'gruppo compatto'. I think breakaways have mopped up all the rest, but I could be wrong
    I can't remember what stage it was, but one had no break aways, and Hushovd took the two intermediate sprints. It was on a hilly stage and both of them were before the hills. cav didn't get any, and since it was a hilly stage, neither of them got any points from the finish either.

    Think it was stage 8.
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  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Deadeye Duck wrote:
    JonGinge wrote:
    That's got to be pretty much the first intermediate sprint this year where it's been 'gruppo compatto'. I think breakaways have mopped up all the rest, but I could be wrong
    I can't remember what stage it was, but one had no break aways, and Hushovd took the two intermediate sprints. It was on a hilly stage and both of them were before the hills. cav didn't get any, and since it was a hilly stage, neither of them got any points from the finish either.

    Think it was stage 8.
    Hushovd was in a break ahead of the field when he took those sprints. Was a smart move by Thor
    Edit: http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/96th-t ... ive-report
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  • Deadeye Duck
    Deadeye Duck Posts: 419
    JonGinge wrote:
    Deadeye Duck wrote:
    JonGinge wrote:
    That's got to be pretty much the first intermediate sprint this year where it's been 'gruppo compatto'. I think breakaways have mopped up all the rest, but I could be wrong
    I can't remember what stage it was, but one had no break aways, and Hushovd took the two intermediate sprints. It was on a hilly stage and both of them were before the hills. cav didn't get any, and since it was a hilly stage, neither of them got any points from the finish either.

    Think it was stage 8.
    Hushovd was in a break ahead of the field when he took those sprints. Was a smart move by Thor
    Edit: http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/96th-t ... ive-report
    Ah right, I thought the break hadn't succeeded because they'd tried a few times before getting away.

    How anyone can't find the fight for green interesting is beyond me. Yes the fight for yellow is great in the hilly stages, but when there's no cliffs to climb, team strategies really start to shine.
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  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Deadeye Duck wrote:
    JonGinge wrote:
    Deadeye Duck wrote:
    JonGinge wrote:
    That's got to be pretty much the first intermediate sprint this year where it's been 'gruppo compatto'. I think breakaways have mopped up all the rest, but I could be wrong
    I can't remember what stage it was, but one had no break aways, and Hushovd took the two intermediate sprints. It was on a hilly stage and both of them were before the hills. cav didn't get any, and since it was a hilly stage, neither of them got any points from the finish either.

    Think it was stage 8.
    Hushovd was in a break ahead of the field when he took those sprints. Was a smart move by Thor
    Edit: http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/96th-t ... ive-report
    Ah right, I thought the break hadn't succeeded because they'd tried a few times before getting away.

    How anyone can't find the fight for green interesting is beyond me. Yes the fight for yellow is great in the hilly stages, but when there's no cliffs to climb, team strategies really start to shine.
    Indeedy. Some great McEwen/OGrady/Zabel duels a couple of years back with the green being decided on the Champs Elysee...
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  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    Anyone spot this, on the BBC website?

    Here's the detail of the only ever 5 consecutive stage wins in 1909 by François Faber:
    Stage 2 : 7 July Roubaix - Metz 398 km (247 mi)
    Stage 3 : 9 July Metz - Belfort 259 km (161 mi)
    Stage 4 : 11 July Belfort - Lyon 309 km (192 mi)
    Stage 5 : 13 July Lyon - Grenoble 311 km (193 mi)
    Stage 6 : 15 July Grenoble - Nice 346 km (215 mi).

    Hard.

    As.

    Nails.
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  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    OK this may come across as a silly question but...

    Is it possible for a sprinter (green jersey dude) to win Le Tour de France?

    Here's my logic. Sprinter is always first during the sprint stages, of which there are many, so the sprinter gets decent times ahead of the peleton in the flat stages. He does well in the TT and and TTT. He doesn't win any mountain stages but manages to stay with the peleton because he is challeneging for the green jersey in the intermediate sprints and stays with the bunch at the front to do so.

    Has this ever happened. Don't say its impossible.
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  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    Yup. Thought the same thing.

    247 miles on one stage and 1008 miles in eight days. That sort of p!sses on everyone's bonfires from a SC Stats point of view, doesn't it?
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  • Jamey
    Jamey Posts: 2,152
    yeah, saw that... Also these two:
    1516: From Dave in Cardiff, via text on 81111: "482km, on rural roads, on heavy old bikes with only one gear, often riding alone, carrying a spare tyre round their necks, setting off in the early hours (2am) and finishing that evening, if at all. That's how they used to do it."

    1505: causticcliffm on 606: Stage 5 in 1919 - 482km. Won by Jean Alavoine in 18h 54' 07". Wimp.
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  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    OK this may come across as a silly question but...

    Is it possible for a sprinter (green jersey dude) to win Le Tour de France?

    Here's my logic. Sprinter is always first during the sprint stages, of which there are many, so the sprinter gets decent times ahead of the peloton in the flat stages. He does well in the TT and and TTT. He doesn't win any mountain stages but manages to stay with the peloton because he is challeneging for the green jersey in the intermediate sprints and stays with the bunch at the front to do so.

    Has this ever happened. Don't say its impossible.

    I think Mr Merckx did it in, um, 1970 odd. He would have won the white jersey too, but it wasn't around then. He won the KoM for good measure though.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • risi
    risi Posts: 231
    Eddy Merckx won them all (yellow, green & polka dot) in 1969, and would have had white had it existed at that time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_Tour_de_France
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  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    OK if you do the sums, if Cav started challenging in the intermediate sprints, staying with the peleton in most of the mountains, continued winning the sprints finishes and altered reality to stay with the peleton in the penultimate stage could he be a contender with a credible GC classification?

    I may just get my red devil suit from out of the cupboard....
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • jeeyer
    jeeyer Posts: 3
    nah, he would loose too much time in the mountains to TT specialists who can climb
    FCN 8 (roadie, baggies, hair*2, flats)
  • Rich158
    Rich158 Posts: 2,348
    In a word no. He's 1hr 13 mins down at the moment, there's no way he'll pull that back. It may have been feasible at the start but not now.

    That's why Merkx is regarded as the best ever, no one even considers trying to win all 3/4 jerseys now
    pain is temporary, the glory of beating your mates to the top of the hill lasts forever.....................

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  • Eau Rouge
    Eau Rouge Posts: 1,118
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    OK if you do the sums, if Cav started challenging in the intermediate sprints, staying with the peloton in most of the mountains, continued winning the sprints finishes and altered reality to stay with the peloton in the penultimate stage could he be a contender with a credible GC classification?

    I may just get my red devil suit from out of the cupboard....

    Cav does stay with the Peleton on the mountain stages, especially the ones that finish on mountain tops. The problem is the Peleton finishes half an hour behind the GC guys on those stages at least.
    Cav gains no time in winning bunch srpints, since the whole bunch is right there, and will lose a couple to three minutes on the time trials if not more.
  • Deadeye Duck
    Deadeye Duck Posts: 419
    Eau Rouge wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    OK if you do the sums, if Cav started challenging in the intermediate sprints, staying with the peloton in most of the mountains, continued winning the sprints finishes and altered reality to stay with the peloton in the penultimate stage could he be a contender with a credible GC classification?

    I may just get my red devil suit from out of the cupboard....

    Cav does stay with the peloton on the mountain stages, especially the ones that finish on mountain tops. The problem is the peloton finishes half an hour behind the GC guys on those stages at least.
    Cav gains no time in winning bunch srpints, since the whole bunch is right there, and will lose a couple to three minutes on the time trials if not more.

    Bingo, and this is one reason why you can't really win them all now. To get them all you'd have to be in the breakaway and stay away untill they end, for every stage, or have no breakaways for any stage, due to the KoM points needed, and the lack of time gain on flat stages for sprinters. The problem is, you couldn't take away the 'same time for the whole peleton' rule because everyone would pile towards the line at the end and it would cause way too many injuries if not fatalities.
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  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    That's why Merkx is regarded as the best ever, no one even considers trying to win all 3/4 jerseys now

    If Merkx is the greatest how come he's won less Tour's than Armstrong?
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  • jeeyer
    jeeyer Posts: 3
    because he rode, and basically won, everything, all year round....

    armstrong specialised on the tour after his comeback from cancer
    FCN 8 (roadie, baggies, hair*2, flats)
  • risi
    risi Posts: 231
    I think everything you need to know is here. There's more to like than the TdF; once upon a time, riders raced the whole season...
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  • attica
    attica Posts: 2,362
    Cancellara punctures again, poor sod, he really is having a bad run of luck
    "Impressive break"

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  • shoulder_of_orion
    shoulder_of_orion Posts: 529
    Yes from the wiki page on Merckx:
    Records:
      Most career victories by a professional cyclist: 525. Most victories in one season: 54. Most stage victories in the Tour de France: 34. Most stage victories in one Tour de France: 8, in 1970 and 1974 (shared with Charles Pélissier in 1930 and Freddy Maertens in 1976). Most days with the yellow jersey in the Tour de France: 96. The only cyclist to have won the yellow, green and red polka-dotted jersey in the same Tour de France (1969). Most victories in classics: 28. Most victories in one single classic: 7 (in Milan-Sanremo). Most Grand Tour Victories 11

    Plus he wasn't an arrogant texan alleged doper...
  • Eau Rouge
    Eau Rouge Posts: 1,118
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    That's why Merkx is regarded as the best ever, no one even considers trying to win all 3/4 jerseys now

    If Merkx is the greatest how come he's won less Tour's than Armstrong?

    I make it 11 to Eddie, 7 to Lance in Grand Tour wins.
    He won 4 in a row, then was asked not to enter in 1973 (so, like Contador, he went off to win the Giro and Vuelta that year instead) won it again in '74m then second in '75 after he was attacked by a fan and later broke his collarbone in a fall and couldn't eat solid food. He didn't ride in '76
    By then he was nearing the end of his dominance, and Hinault has started to win.

    Lance's 7 in a row was very special, but he wasn't entering anything like the number of races Eddie was each year. Lance pretty much only rode the Tour and one or two other races to prepare for it. Eddie won 19 Monuments and 3 World Championships amongst his frankly rediculous palmeres.

    EDIT -where would we be without wikipedia :)
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    Merckx was a far far far far better rider than Pharmstrong ever was.

    How many Paris-Roubaix has LA won? How Tour of Flanders has LA won?
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  • Rich158
    Rich158 Posts: 2,348
    Shoulder of Lamb wrote:
    Yes from the wiki page on Merckx:
    Records:
      Most career victories by a professional cyclist: 525. Most victories in one season: 54. Most stage victories in the Tour de France: 34. Most stage victories in one Tour de France: 8, in 1970 and 1974 (shared with Charles Pélissier in 1930 and Freddy Maertens in 1976). Most days with the yellow jersey in the Tour de France: 96. The only cyclist to have won the yellow, green and red polka-dotted jersey in the same Tour de France (1969). Most victories in classics: 28. Most victories in one single classic: 7 (in Milan-Sanremo). Most Grand Tour Victories 11

    Plus he wasn't an arrogant texan alleged doper...

    Didn't Merkx test positive three times in his career, and get expelled from the 69 Giro. He may be the greatest but he certainly wasn't without controversy
    pain is temporary, the glory of beating your mates to the top of the hill lasts forever.....................

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  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    OK, stop I was ony trying to insight a reaction. Much like asking who would win Thor vs Superman, Ali vs Tyson or who was better, Maradonna or Pele, Giggs or Best.

    I get it Merkx is king, a one of a kind, special and possibly the first test professional test subject on EPO.... Ok that last bit was a joke, I'm sorry, really sorry.
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    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • attica
    attica Posts: 2,362
    Is that a peleton or an autobus today?

    Still at least that neutralises the green jersey competition
    "Impressive break"

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  • Jamey
    Jamey Posts: 2,152
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Thor vs Superman

    Shouldn't that be Hushovd Vs Cav?
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  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    People allege that LA doped as "everyone else did in the 90's."
    Given that logic, Merckx almost certainly doped!

    As I understand it the two get on famously.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Jamey wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Thor vs Superman

    Shouldn't that be Hushovd Vs Cav?[/quote

    Yes it should and like Superman being weak to magic, yet somehow catching Thor's magical hammer and spanking Thor with it.

    Cav, who is weak around hills, bumps and mountains seems now to be able to climb and beat Thor in the Intermediate sprints between hill stages.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Jamey wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Thor vs Superman

    Shouldn't that be Hushovd Vs Cav?[/quote

    Yes it should and like Superman being weak to magic, yet somehow catching Thor's magical hammer and spanking Thor with it.

    Cav, who is weak around hills, bumps and mountains seems now to be able to climb and beat Thor in the Intermediate sprints between hill stages.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game

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