Vino on his way back
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I just implore Contador to get out of that team, before it dissolves into another Saunier Beef Scott Fuji.
As for Vino, c*nt.0 -
Dont see a problem here. He has paid his time. He has not done anything different to many other dopers. Doping is here to stay and it is not going away - if people on this Forum cannot see it then its time to move on. Constant whinging about it here is not solving anything.
People will always cheat - it a fact.Brian B.0 -
"There are ongoing discussions. This team has been created for me, I do not see how an agreement could not be reached. "If there is no deal, Johan will have to leave the team,"
He was a worst advert for his country than the Borat movie. Now he believes he can throw his weight about again.
I'm betting that the Plan that was put in place should the Astana team have folded will still be on the back burner. Depending on what happens at the tour, the Astana team could be no more next year anyway with financial problems and internal leadership ego trips.When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bike.
Then I realised that The Lord doesn\'t work that way, so I stole one and asked him to forgive me.0 -
Cheating is one thing. Blatant cheating like Vinoukourov in that Tour, and then a subsequent denial of all wrong doing, is what I object to. Also, the quote about it being "his baby" and that if Bruyneel has a problem he will be forced out.
Everyone could see last year that Ricco wa cheating. He got caught and admitted to wrongdoing, and the admission of guilt is to be commended in my eyes.
I will never advocate doping, but like anything, if you can admit you've done wrong it's one small step along tohe road to redemption. It's for this reason that I can't accept Landis or Rasmussen or Hamilton back into the peoloton, they just showed no remorse.0 -
TakeTheHighRoad wrote:Cheating is one thing. Blatant cheating like Vinoukourov in that Tour, and then a subsequent denial of all wrong doing, is what I object to. Also, the quote about it being "his baby" and that if Bruyneel has a problem he will be forced out.
Everyone could see last year that Ricco wa cheating. He got caught and admitted to wrongdoing, and the admission of guilt is to be commended in my eyes.
I will never advocate doping, but like anything, if you can admit you've done wrong it's one small step along tohe road to redemption. It's for this reason that I can't accept Landis or Rasmussen or Hamilton back into the peoloton, they just showed no remorse.
I think its great I can imagine the scene now.
Armstrong and Bruyneel being indignant about a doper moo ha ha ha. Even better the scene when Vino tells them both to smoke bloke0 -
This was expected. Once Vino decided to 'unretire' the story was written.
I don't believe that Bruynstrong were going to stay much longer, Astana has just been a convenience for them for the TdF. Contador will probably leave, but is not adverse to working with Vino.
Also worth remembering that Kash is also due back very shortly and has been requesting dope tests in readiness.0 -
TakeTheHighRoad wrote:Cheating is one thing. Blatant cheating like Vinoukourov in that Tour, and then a subsequent denial of all wrong doing, is what I object to. Also, the quote about it being "his baby" and that if Bruyneel has a problem he will be forced out.
Everyone could see last year that Ricco wa cheating. He got caught and admitted to wrongdoing, and the admission of guilt is to be commended in my eyes.
I will never advocate doping, but like anything, if you can admit you've done wrong it's one small step along tohe road to redemption. It's for this reason that I can't accept Landis or Rasmussen or Hamilton back into the peoloton, they just showed no remorse.
This admitting guilt thing has me thinking. Denial of guilt would seem to be a fairly NORMAL trait of humans in general. Right or wrong it seems to be how things go. We
have all done it(or at least most of us). Add to that the fact that denial is only for other peoples benefit. Pretty hard to lie to yourself. Look at all the innocent people in prison today and you'll get an idea of denial at work. You may want an apology or to have someone put on a public display of remorse but your chances of getting it from most
humans is slim at best. Confession may be good for the soul and while some people
may, in fact, do this, many others only admit guilt to themselves(which is really hard to
avoid).0 -
But, but, but, no wait, Pro tour team......4 years pleeze....we clean, never positives....Bruyneel is the best....Lance will crush him like an egg.....
.....damn, Basso, Leakygas...we'll he can't anyhow....it'll make fanboys mucho mucho angry and saddo....
Come on people. What do you think all that non-payment nonsense was about?
This power struggle has been going on for months.
The Kazakh's now have both the cards and once again, surprise surprise, the cash.
JB/LA?
Option 1: Suck it up and admit when you are beaten.
Option 2: Use the sponsors that are already lined up, (assuming, of course there were sponsors falling over themselves to splash the cash for Lance) leave and start a PC team and hope for a Tour invite, next year.
Best to win, this year then, but not with that Spanyard guy.
Option 3: Both re-retire. (I'm not sure if Jo's first attempt qualifies as a retirement, though)
Stands back, having lit the blue touch paper....
Oh and Emmanuele Sella has signed with CarmioOro - A-Style, a third division team"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
I blame Lance...it is his fault... infact everything is Lance's fault
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Im tired of you bashing LanceDave_1 wrote:I blame Lance...it is his fault... infact everything is Lance's fault
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Sounds like maybe l'equipe are just have a little smear over team Armstrong and the loudest, flashiest team in the race.
I doubt Vino would be lined up to join Astana as we know it- bruneel and armstrong will go and make the shiny happy livestrong team after the tour, Contador and his cronys will join Caisse or other and Astana can become a team for KAzachs again, even if it it only burnt out and publicly disgraced Kazachs.0 -
gregssmirkingrevenge wrote:Sounds like maybe l'equipe are just have a little smear over team Armstrong and the loudest, flashiest team in the race.
I doubt Vino would be lined up to join Astana as we know it- bruneel and armstrong will go and make the shiny happy livestrong team after the tour, Contador and his cronys will join Caisse or other and Astana can become a team for KAzachs again, even if it it only burnt out and publicly disgraced Kazachs.
dude, your more cynical and twisted than me!0 -
gregssmirkingrevenge wrote:.......Contador and his cronys will join .....
I thought Lance was the only rider with "cronys". I'd love to have some "cronys" myself,
but at my age all I can get is gezzers and old farts.0 -
True to some extent but get caught stealing and you can never expect to work as a lawyer or doctor again. You wouldn't want a schoolteacher with a conviction for child molesting to teach your kids, even if they'd served their full sentence, would you?Brian B wrote:Dont see a problem here. He has paid his time. He has not done anything different to many other dopers.
People can come back after punishment but they ought to be reformed characters.0 -
Kléber wrote:Brian B wrote:Dont see a problem here. He has paid his time. He has not done anything different to many other dopers.
People can come back after punishment but they ought to be reformed characters.
I agree, but how do you tell who's "reformed" and who's just claiming to have seen the light. Sort of a crap shoot. Ya takes your chances.0 -
Kléber wrote:
True to some extent but get caught stealing and you can never expect to work as a lawyer or doctor again. You wouldn't want a schoolteacher with a conviction for child molesting to teach your kids, even if they'd served their full sentence, would you?Brian B wrote:Dont see a problem here. He has paid his time. He has not done anything different to many other dopers.
People can come back after punishment but they ought to be reformed characters.
Surely youre not equating child molestation with the taking of PEDs ? one is an abhorrent crime the other is cheating.............miles apart.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Moray Gub wrote:Kléber wrote:
True to some extent but get caught stealing and you can never expect to work as a lawyer or doctor again. You wouldn't want a schoolteacher with a conviction for child molesting to teach your kids, even if they'd served their full sentence, would you?Brian B wrote:Dont see a problem here. He has paid his time. He has not done anything different to many other dopers.
People can come back after punishment but they ought to be reformed characters.
Surely youre not equating child molestation with the taking of PEDs ? one is an abhorrent crime the other is cheating.............miles apart.
+1 GOOD POINT0 -
Now the WUM dust has settled.
Probable outcome from someone more rational than me.Bruyneel will just send Vino to the Vuelta with Demol and be done with it.
Hogstrong will be back with their own team next year and Lance will ride to keep the sponsors happy and bide the time until Phinney turns pro.
Monte Carlo tour team presentation on good 'ol Eurosport in half an hour or so...."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Well, in terms of post-doping suspension comebacks this is going to be the most amusing, for sure.
I just hope that Vino and Bruyneel play it out in public. :twisted:0 -
Vino certainly is doing a nice impression of an immoral egomaniac. Should be entertaining as it plays out.0
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TakeTheHighRoad wrote:Cheating is one thing. Blatant cheating like Vinoukourov in that Tour, and then a subsequent denial of all wrong doing, is what I object to. Also, the quote about it being "his baby" and that if Bruyneel has a problem he will be forced out.
Everyone could see last year that Ricco wa cheating. He got caught and admitted to wrongdoing, and the admission of guilt is to be commended in my eyes.
I will never advocate doping, but like anything, if you can admit you've done wrong it's one small step along tohe road to redemption. It's for this reason that I can't accept Landis or Rasmussen or Hamilton back into the peoloton, they just showed no remorse.
I don't find it that hard to understand this denial thing. Put yourself in their shoes. Even if
you're a caught and proven doper, admitting it would seem to be a lose / lose proposition.
At least in their eyes. It removes all doubt in other peoples minds whereas saying nothing,
at the very least, leaves some doubt in peoples minds. I'm not condoning this "silence"
but I'd like to think that I sort of understand why it happens. People will do what THEY
want, not what YOU think they should.0 -
If it came down to a celebrity death match between Bruyneel and Vino ... I'd prefer Vino to win... As much as I dislike Vino, Bruyneel just makes me sick**************************************************
www.dotcycling.com
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RichN95 wrote:I'd love to see Vino turn up in Monaco tomorrow, demanding to sit in the Astana lead car giving the orders (with the Kazaks threatening to pull the plug if it doesn't happen)
Could it be that all this Astana financial problems, infighting, rumours of this and that, etc., etc., is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors? I find it difficult to believe that on the eve of the "big race" the country, team, riders, managers, and all the rest associtated with this
team, that, by the way, is a big favorite to win it, would risk, what is certainly a win / win situation for everyone involved, losing it all with petty problems. Is all of it real or just
misinformation to distract others? All's fair in love and war.0 -
Brian B wrote:Dont see a problem here. He has paid his time. He has not done anything different to many other dopers. .
caught doping at the tour counts double...at least"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Err, of course not.Moray Gub wrote:Surely youre not equating child molestation with the taking of PEDs ? one is an abhorrent crime the other is cheating.............miles apart.
I also mentioned the case of lawyers and accountants, my point is simply that committing a crime does not entitle people to return to their old jobs instantly. Vino might have done his time but he's not the sort of person who should be welcomed back.
The sport is messed up when Vino will be back on a team giving orders to Bruyneel 0 -
Kléber wrote:
Err, of course not.Moray Gub wrote:Surely youre not equating child molestation with the taking of PEDs ? one is an abhorrent crime the other is cheating.............miles apart.
Vino might have done his time but he's not the sort of person who should be welcomed back.
Well, he has done his "time" and that was what was required of him. Whether he has learned to be a better "sort of person" and a positive influence on cycling is not something
you and I can know at the moment. Only Vino knows that. People do get a bit wiser with age and mistakes. So anything is possible.0 -
I think its great, i cant wait for more shots of Vinos pumped legs pumpling away on antoher drug fuelled mountain rampage bring it on.
This is d ick waving at its best. Come on the over achievers lets see what youve got.
Perhaps the shoi;d be a league like in wrestling where pumped up superstars talk trash and then fight for outr entertainment. We could have their wives or girlfriends alling each other names and cat fighting. W could even get Cherly Crow to fight the current Armstrong love interest (unless thats a bloke... although even that would be funny)
It must be July!0
